Mild moan about yards changing the goal posts !

[Ambers Echo]

Livery yards generally haven't embraced the customer service element that othe service industries have. Most have waiting lists so can get away with a 'like it, lump it or leave' attitude. Many are not trained or experienced in any kind of customer service even if they want to work well. So you are at the mercy of their whims and their willingness to behave in a professioanl way. Or not. And their level of skill in managing people. Which some can't do at all. Good yard owners are amazing. And I would not be one in a million years because liveries are also a nightmare very often. A good YO is overworked, under paid, under apreciated and phenomenally skilful in people and systems management. But many are barely adequate and are still able to be full (albeit with a rapid turnover) so there are plenty of nutty YO's out there making random decisions, changing goal posts, behaving like adolescents or breaking the law. Over my 20 years on various yards: I have direct knowlege of

- YOs refusing professional on the yard because of interpersonal crap
- YOs refusing to let liveries have lessons off the yard with certain trainers
- YOs not haying, turning out or mucking out full liveries on Christmas day. Just leaving them in with extra hay from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day
- YOs putting up stabling without planning permission. In fact I was kicked off a yard overnight because unknown to me, the stabling I was in had planning for personal use only, not commercial and someone told the planning authorities.
- YOs bullying liveries
- YO's being bullied by liveries and letting those liveries bully others
- YOs not feeding horses when owners are away (they'll never know and they don't need all that crap anyway')
- YOs allowing visitors to have pony rides on a livery's pony without permission! (Yes really!)
- YOs hitting horses in their stables
- YOs having stand up rows with liveries. Irrational screaming matches over transgressions like wheelbarrows in thw wrong place.....
- And many MANY YOs changing turn out rules.

And that's not to mention the real horror stories on here and elsewhere of liveries having to escape at dawn for fear a nutty YO will do something weird and wonderful if they give notice.

Personally I'd suck it up in your situation. Good yards are rarer than indifferent or awful ones and many would find your needs challenging even if they were willing.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Then Monday I was approached by the yard owner . Who said my livery for my mare would be going up £1 a day for her in addition to her additional hand walking. Which means I am now paying and additional £21 for my mare . That is unexpected . As she’s requiring more care than they thought legs bandaged and medication syringed. I explained all this to her when I viewed the yard which they said would be included .

Personally I'd suck it up in your situation. Good yards are rarer than indifferent or awful ones and many would find your needs challenging even if they were willing.

But in this case when the yard was viewed the OP told the YO the care that would be required for this particular horse and the YO agreed a livery price that included the extra care. I think the YO should have said at that point in time that the needs were too 'challenging' for the horse to livery at that yard. Personally I would question the YO or YO's staff abilities if they find putting bandages on and syringing medication too challenging.

A professional YO would or should be well aware of the time and commitment the extra services would entail and should have quoted the correct livery fee at the very start, not pluck extra charges out of the air as and when it suits them. As a paying livery you would at least expect the original agreement on charges to be adhered to surely?

 

[Chianti]

Have you any experience of the cost of putting a child into nursery? I think those sort of charges would put most people out of horse ownership. As the old saying goes ' be careful what you wish for'

I think the suggestion was that there should be some sort of regulation of livery yards- not that they would have to work to the same standards. I doubt many yards have a ratio of one employee to four horses!

 

[Gingerwitch]

Around me it costs £35 per day for doggie day care am or pm approx 5 hours. All day is done at a discount. No feed included.
Horse livery is no where near that. Doggie day care only needs what 2 acres. Horse yards need that as a minimum. I have sympathy for both sides y.o and liveries.

 

[honetpot]

I think a start would be everyone who is at livery asking to see the landowner liability insurance, and if they have employees, employers liability insurance, it at least shows they have some knowledge of their responsibilities.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf
The problem is when someone has a field and a couple of empty buildings, they think its easy money, and it grows in to something that is actually more of a sports facility, with none of the background knowledge and training that goes with it.
I can not see how anyone can make a profit on DIY livery if they factor in their overheads, unless perhaps its diversification of a larger business. For someone like me who has insurance in place and empty stables, some of the bizarre people that DIY seems to attract makes sharing your home with someone, who thinks £25pw allows them free access to your property at all times, whilst pandering to their insecurities and sometimes not paying their bills, not an experience to be repeated.
The OP had at least a verbal contract with the YO, perhaps their inexperience made them think that they could manage OP horse. My question would be, do you want your horse in the care of someone who has that level of experience and understanding of the horses care needs, no matter what you were paying?

 

[sport horse]

I think the suggestion was that there should be some sort of regulation of livery yards- not that they would have to work to the same standards. I doubt many yards have a ratio of one employee to four horses!

But that is the real level of staffing needed if you are providing full livery and covering weekends, bank holidays 28 days staff holiday/year, staff sickness, yard opening perhaps from 6 am to 9pm to cover livery requirements etc etc.

The real cost of running a yard with insurance for the buildings, public liability insurance, employers liability, staff pension schemes etc etc is massive. I do not have liveries but I do employ staff for my sport horse operation and it is very expensive and quite onerous. My insurances alone for a private stud/sport horse yard wtih 3 employees comes in at over £10k per annum.

 

[Frumpoon]

An awful lot of the people I know don’t actually want livery as such

They want to be able to keep a horse or two or three and be left alone but such places don’t exist or don’t come up for rent or sale very often

They would rather not be on a livery yard almost as much as many livery yard owners would not want them there…

Not that many years ago grazing land with shelter was very common and affordable in most of the UK

 

[MagicMelon]

I would take the horse somewhere else to be seen by the physio. You dont have to legally tell them anything about where you're taking your own horse! If they make that much fuss, make it up - say you're taking the horse to meet a friend for a hack?

 

[Chianti]

But that is the real level of staffing needed if you are providing full livery and covering weekends, bank holidays 28 days staff holiday/year, staff sickness, yard opening perhaps from 6 am to 9pm to cover livery requirements etc etc.

The real cost of running a yard with insurance for the buildings, public liability insurance, employers liability, staff pension schemes etc etc is massive. I do not have liveries but I do employ staff for my sport horse operation and it is very expensive and quite onerous. My insurances alone for a private stud/sport horse yard wtih 3 employees comes in at over £10k per annum.

I would say that very few yards offer that level of service because not that many horse owners want it. I don't want someone else grooming my horse or riding it for me. My yard is open 7.30am to 7pm in the winter and to 9pm in the summer but there are no staff on site after 5pm and I wouldn't expect them to be. The yard owner lives on site but unless something was very wrong the liveries wouldn't dream of disturbing her. We have about 22 horses most are stables with a few grass liveries but usually there are only two staff working and the horses are well cared for. I accept that running a yard is expensive and stressful but so are lots of other jobs! Try being a reception class teacher and have the parents of thirty children querying their care and asking what they were doing all day.

 

[Velcrobum]

I would say that very few yards offer that level of service because not that many horse owners want it. I don't want someone else grooming my horse or riding it for me. My yard is open 7.30am to 7pm in the winter and to 9pm in the summer but there are no staff on site after 5pm and I wouldn't expect them to be. The yard owner lives on site but unless something was very wrong the liveries wouldn't dream of disturbing her. We have about 22 horses most are stables with a few grass liveries but usually there are only two staff working and the horses are well cared for. I accept that running a yard is expensive and stressful but so are lots of other jobs! Try being a reception class teacher and have the parents of thirty children querying their care and asking what they were doing all day.

Does your yard owner have the initials TM? If so that is an excellent yard.

 

[sport horse]

I would say that very few yards offer that level of service because not that many horse owners want it. I don't want someone else grooming my horse or riding it for me. My yard is open 7.30am to 7pm in the winter and to 9pm in the summer but there are no staff on site after 5pm and I wouldn't expect them to be. The yard owner lives on site but unless something was very wrong the liveries wouldn't dream of disturbing her. We have about 22 horses most are stables with a few grass liveries but usually there are only two staff working and the horses are well cared for. I accept that running a yard is expensive and stressful but so are lots of other jobs! Try being a reception class teacher and have the parents of thirty children querying their care and asking what they were doing all day.

So is the yard unlocked overnight? Does no one check that everything is back in place at the end of the day? I personally would not accept that situation.

 

[Caol Ila]

When I worked on a dressage yard, my job was to do all the stable duties -- turn out, feed, muck out, water, distribute hay, etc. -- and also tack up horses for the trainer, untack horses for the trainer, cool horses out, and ride a couple horses, including my own. The horses only had like an hour of turnout per day, so all the stable duties needed to be done morning AND evening. And they were hot warmbloods with only an hour of turnout per day, so they were usually trying to kill you while doing all of the above. That was hard work. I'd take it over thirty feral schoolkids and their parents, though.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I'd take it over thirty feral schoolkids and their parents, though.

Me too!!!!

 

[Grassy]

So is the yard unlocked overnight? Does no one check that everything is back in place at the end of the day? I personally would not accept that situation.

Our YM finishes around 5, if anyone is still riding they lock the tack room & set the alarm, gate is locked by one of the residents around 10. YO & YM live on site, but as Sport Horse said, we wouldn’t disturb them unless something was very wrong. What is it that you want to be “put back into place”? We’re all responsible adults & the horses all go out overnight...

 

[milliepops]

Our YM finishes around 5, if anyone is still riding they lock the tack room & set the alarm, gate is locked by one of the residents around 10. YO & YM live on site, but as Sport Horse said, we wouldn’t disturb them unless something was very wrong. What is it that you want to be “put back into place”? We’re all responsible adults & the horses all go out overnight...

Was similar at my last place, YO who offered full and assisted DIY only left at 5ish and locked his office, last one to ride locked tackroom, last one to leave closed up the gates.

 

[little_critter]

What do you think happens on DIY yards? Last one out of an evening locks up and turns off the lights.

 

[stormox]

What do you think happens on DIY yards? Last one out of an evening locks up and turns off the lights.

Thats what happens on all the yards Ive been on.

 

[Kat]

Was similar at my last place, YO who offered full and assisted DIY only left at 5ish and locked his office, last one to ride locked tackroom, last one to leave closed up the gates.

Pretty much the same at the yard I am on. Works well. YO will come out without hesitation if there is an issue but mostly we can manage to lock up ourselves. I love having the place to myself late on.

 

[Chianti]

So is the yard unlocked overnight? Does no one check that everything is back in place at the end of the day? I personally would not accept that situation.

The owner does a late check and the yard is very secure. As you don't seem to be in need of livery you won't have to worry about it.

 

[Chianti]

Does your yard owner have the initials TM? If so that is an excellent yard.

No.