Mis sold or Me? Advice please

[LittleHoundDoggie]

Hi, Ive just joined the forum and would like opinions please.

I bought myself a Connemara gelding two months ago. I had my own as a child ( New Forest ) and soon found how green he was, At 12 I got him sorted out, traffic proof etc. I hacked round huge roundabouts as a teenager.

I had a 30 year break from riding and started again 4 years ago. I wanted my own as I like to ride regularly and as I am carer for my husband I wanted an older, more experienced pony. Mostly as a happy hacker as I am now in my mid fifties. I tried quite a few and eventually went some distance to try a rising 9 year old. I rode him for almost 2 hours as we got lost! Along the roads, first and last on the hack, stayed behind as the other person cantered away and asked him to canter away. He was great. Jumped a couple of times when startled by dog owners appearing out of bushes but nothing much.

Got him home, obviously I realised he would take time to settle but he is so spooky. It isn't napping, he literally jumps out of his skin at bikes, bushes, birds, everything really. He will shy sideways, leap forwards and he is also spooky on the yard. At wheelbarrows, children in the distance. Anything makes him jump.

Ive down some digging ( good old google) and found he was brought from Ireland, unhanded as a six year old. He then went to a novice child for a year until outgrown. Ive seen video on youtube with the girl, he looks to have been ridden in a menage or in a local field, with her friend on foot.

I specifically stated several times that I was looking for a pony with experience of hacking and that he be as safe as possible ( all ponies will shy) and I feel that I have got a very green lad.

Interestingly, I hired a menage at my local riding school last week. I chose it as it is by a busy A road with heavy lorries passing the other side too as it is near a gravel pit. There was a pony fence running and upwards of 200 seagulls wheeling overhead. WE also had the jets come over. He didn't bat an eyelid, obviously the menage is a comfortable place for him. Any of these things would set him off out hacking.

Is it likely that he will improve? Or is it more likely that he has a nervous nature and will always jump at the slightest thing?

Would you send him back and look around again?

I accept that it could well be me so have arranged for a friend to hack him out with me on her pony.

He is a nice chap on the ground, he is out at grass daily and only on balancer and chaff. When I tried him he was so laid back he stood quietly waiting for the dealer to tack her horse up. He hates standing still at home although he is polite and lets me mount/dismount without moving.

I am firm but fair with him, he is handled by five of us as we share duty. He walks nicely to and from his field unless he is spooking at things.

Thanks so much if you have managed to read all this.

 

[Orca]

I would give him more time, if doing so won't destroy your confidence.

Are you confident when riding him? I only ask because my mare is green but as soon as I'm firm and show leadership, she places her trust in me completely and isn't afraid.

I would say to keep hacking out with your friend, do as much as you can and desensitise him through exposure. Keep calmly and firmly guiding him through his wobbles. If he's good in every other way, personally, I'd be happy to help him though this and if his character indicates that he is usually accepting and calm, I'd expect to see an improvement over time.

Eta: Another trick I'd utilise is to use schooling techniques while hacking, so that his focus is on you and what you are asking. If you keep his mind busy and on you he's likely to find less things to worry about outside of your bubble.

 

[luckyoldme]

I found myself in a very similair situation about 7 years ago.
I bought a lovely looking quiet chestnut gelding that turned into a monster on the way home.In the first few months i ended up in a and e about four times and got to the stage i just wanted rid.
Fortunately my oh had got rather attatched and persuaded me to keep the horse, I turned him out and gave up riding him for a while, and just got to know him. i brought him in every day , groomed him gave him a feed then just built up to riding him again bit by bit. It took about 3 months but ive had the horse 7 years now. Somehow the fact that it wasnt easy to start off with just makes it all the better now.
I think i completely underestimated how long it would take for him to settle, and also the effect that having nearly 25 years totally away from horses would have on my confidence.
It was really awful when i first got him, but keeping him was the best thing i ever did.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Are you hacking on your own?

 

[webble]

Can you stick to riding in the school and hacking with friends for now? Do some groundwork with him and have some lessons to help get to know each other. He has to trust you out hacking that you will protect him from monsters

 

[ihatework]

A few questions -
How long have you had him?
Are you hacking alone? Is he better in company?
Are you nervous or anxious about hacking him?
Is he fed hay or haylage?

 

[Cortez]

2 months is no time at all, he probably just needs time to get used to a new life with you. However, your increasing nervousness will only add to his. Can you get someone more experienced to hack him out for you (and get an opinion on his basic temperament)?

 

[luckyoldme]

Can you stick to riding in the school and hacking with friends for now? Do some groundwork with him and have some lessons to help get to know each other. He has to trust you out hacking that you will protect him from monsters

i think thats a lovely way of putting it!

 

[webble]

i think thats a lovely way of putting it!

Well Indy worries when I don't take bags in hedges seriously. One day something will happen or one will attack and prove him right

 

[luckyoldme]

Well Indy worries when I don't take bags in hedges seriously. One day something will happen or one will attack and prove him right

my mad horse strolled past a tree harvester felling trees without a care in the world then walked round the corner and tried to do one when he saw a cat..they are mad!

 

[madlady]

All horses are different and where one will settle pretty much straightaway another may take months and months.

You both need to trust each other and currently you don't but that is something that can be worked on.

You say that previously when he hacked with his younger rider that there was always someone there on foot - that person would have been his leader and security blanket and now he doesn't have that. If he is good to lead and on the ground then I'd take him on short in hand hacks - to get him used to you, your voice and the fact that you are now leader. If possible I'd long rein him (or get someone to help) out around his new environment so that he goes forward without following and then try getting back on board.

Hacking alone, in a strange new place, with a strange new human could have been just a little overwhelming. It wouldn't make me give up on him though.

I would say though that if you want to be mainly hacking alone then that is what you need to work on now - if you get him hacking out nicely in company he may well revert as soon as you ask him to go alone.

 

[tatty_v]

I think there are a couple of things to think about:
- do you feel he has settled in yet? If he's a sensitive pony then it could take many months before he truly feels safe and at home in his new surroundings and the issues could be cropping up when you're solo hacking out because he feels more exposed?
- time of year - my Connie was way more spooky at the weekend on his own than he normally is, maybe because of the weather, lack of grazing etc?
- riding style - maybe he's more settled in the school because his brain is being kept busy but when hacking out he has more time to think (and therefore spook?)
If he's good in every other respect (and it sounds like he is) then maybe all you need is time and patience until he's settled. When my lad first arrived my husband would come out walking with us/on his bike, and that seemed to settle him initially - would that be an option? X

 

[Goldenstar]

Many horses will act like this alone in a strange place so I would say he's just behaving like a horse who needs leadership whose is being hacked in a strange place alone with a novice rider .
I don't think you have been misold you bought a horse who is now behaving like a horse .
You bought a Connie well know for their sharp behaviour .
I would pay an experianced rider to hack him on his own for you three times a week i would try to get company when you can I would get him into work seven days a week and I would feed him only hay .
Then in two months see where you are .

 

[gnubee]

If at the trial you tested the pony in the situations you are now struggling in then unless you think he was drugged (did you have blood taken at the vetting?) or the issue is intermittent now then it seems more likely to be an issue with how you are riding / managing him than that he was mis sold.

 

[webble]

my mad horse strolled past a tree harvester felling trees without a care in the world then walked round the corner and tried to do one when he saw a cat..they are mad!

Yes that sounds about right, I bet you didn't take the cat seriously either did you

 

[Damnation]

My horse is scared of stray leaves.

Autumn is a bad time for us.

HGV? No problem, its not even there....

 

[Silver]

More time needed.
You are going down the right avenue as getting someone else to ride may help out, ideally a professional in the area such as an advanced instructor or someone who trains and starts horses. At the same time check all tack fits well, have a vet check and re assess horses turn out and feeding. Much better to find a way to make things work than pass on again.

 

[LittleHoundDoggie]

WOW, thanks so much to everyone who has replied. Lots to think about. OK, Ive had him 2 months. He seems very happy, I have grass!! He was kept out 24/7 with access to hay only, he was rugged and had bites all over his neck so I'm guessing he had to fight for the hay. I stopped all hard food for 3 weeks after I had problems ( on Vet advice) and then started very slowly. He is out on grass all day, in at night ( he loves grass). I'm guessing he has more energy with the sugars in the grass.

He is lazy in the small indoor school and has just about stopped spooking in there. Its out hacking. I have not tried taking him out alone, that seemed a bit much to ask straight after a move and a change to an adult owner. He is just as bad following as leading. He literally jumps frequently at movement and noise. I had a friend come out on her bike ( with another friend on horseback), we had her cycle closer until she was beside us. He finally relaxed. Next day, two cyclists rode past him and he leapt forwards and tried to take off. Thankfully, I rode bareback so much as a child that as yet ( cross fingers, count to 10) I haven't been unseated. I just speak calmly to him and on we go.

I had a friend ( who owns the land so handles him daily too) ride him today. He was actually slightly worse with her which did wonders for my confidence as the dealer has blamed me. I'm not scared of him, rather I am just a bit irritated at going so far for a pony which is greener than my local dealers. At least her 6 yr olds have been out and about.

I am going to get some lessons on him, I am also hoping to get the instructor ( who I know well having hacked out loads while I was looking) to come on a hack with me.

I would absolutely NOT sell him as safe. He would have a child off as he whips round and panics. I have done some in hand work with him. He walks over a tarpaulin ( don't pick it up), he walks over wood. Church bells are OK, men washing cars a definite NO.

I did have blood taken, its £300 to test though. I also spoke to the Vet who checked him, he said he thought he was very quiet but didn't obviously appear drugged, it was a senior partner in the firm. I do wonder if he was ridden hard that morning.

The dealer who sold him on behalf of the family seems to genuinely care about him and tells me its me and to sing and sit like a sack of spuds but if I am honest and after today with my experienced ( and much taller) friend riding him and him being worse, I actually think I ride him with confidence and pretty calmly. I wanted a nice hack, with experience and my poor boy isn't that. I wonder if being totally unhandled for six years has meant he will always be spooky. He must have walked past the chickens a couple of hundred times but he still get startled if they move when he is being led past.

 

[Orca]

Does he need hard feed at present? I'd be tempted to go back to a forage only diet, so long as he is keeping condition. I know a number of Connies in light work who have plenty of energy and condition on forage alone.

Your local dealers six year olds might have been out and about more but honestly, two months isn't a very long time and not all horses will have settled in that time. The chances are that one of theirs might have required a lengthy settling in period too.

I don't think a lack of handling will make him eternally spooky but it is important that he has the right handling now, to bring him up to speed. Good luck with him

 

[LittleHoundDoggie]

He is on a small amount of molasses free chaff and a tiny bit of balancer. Hay and grazing in the daylight hours. I'm also lunging him. He has lost a little bit of weight so can't not give any food, girth up one hole. He is such a nice lad in so many ways. I'm so glad I posted here, thanks so much to everyone. I'm very open to all and any suggestions to make this work. I just have to balance the risks as I am my wonderful hubbys carer. I'm taking him back to the riding school wednesday to use the menage again. He is also excellent in the trailer, walks straight in.

He is also hard to bridle, I am short and he is full up 14.2 so I have no chance if he sticks his head up. I am putting a bit of honey on his bit which is helping. He is only in a happy mouth mullen.

 

[Orangehorse]

Take him off all hard feed. My 16 hh horse has hay, grass and chaff with minerals. I don't know if you can face it, but I think you are right that he is much greener than you were led to believe. It is down to miles on the clock I expect, just keep taking him out, although whether you feel you can do this is the question.

What is he like with Horse Agility type obstacles, in other words groundwork where they learn to cope with puzzles and strange looking things. Linda Tellington-Jones has written books on how to de-spook, but it all takes time and some help with an interested and helpful assistant. Can you put spooky things in (safe things, not bikes! or next to his paddock/stable?

 

[Clodagh]

Rescue remedy works on horses as well as people, my sons spooky pony used to have it for pony club, I would give him a squirt or three of that before going out.
He will calm down, it may take time.
I would put him on magnesium, I swear by it, I use MagOx and ad lib hay should put weight on him. (He will still need his unmolassed chaff for the calmer). I would lunge him before you hack him, so he has less energy to spook and give him plenty of work.

 

[LittleHoundDoggie]

Clodagh, I have him on magnesium, sorry forgot to say that. He is very inquisitive, he will push a wheelbarrow until it falls over and scares him. He spooked yesterday when a man in a garden lifted his child up to see the horses. Floss ( friends mare) said hello. I didn't ask him to approach but he wanted to and went right up and said hello too.

I think miles on the clock being needed is spot on....sigh. My hubs is terminally ill and buying a happy hacker was supposed to give me an outlet. Hubs is also paralysed. I was very honest about what I was looking for and shocked when I found he was more green that I was led to believe.

I actually feel better knowing he was as bad for my friend. He is in no way being nasty. He is genuinely scared.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Just a suggestion OP, but some balancers contain alfalfa as a filler, and that can make some horses reactive.

 

[Nettle123]

He sounds a lovely pony, just sensitive in a new environment. I would push on with lessons and schooling and leave the hacking for the moment until you build up trust in each other. I really think it takes months for a newby to completely settle or at least that has been my experience.

I have a lovely middle aged pony here that came as a happy hacker for me, I knew all her history as she had been with her previous Owner for 10 years. She was a total yob at first, barging, walking through me taking off etc. Her poor Owner was mortified but it soon resolved itself and she is a complete sweetheart now.

 

[Clodagh]

Clodagh, I have him on magnesium, sorry forgot to say that. He is very inquisitive, he will push a wheelbarrow until it falls over and scares him. He spooked yesterday when a man in a garden lifted his child up to see the horses. Floss ( friends mare) said hello. I didn't ask him to approach but he wanted to and went right up and said hello too.

I think miles on the clock being needed is spot on....sigh. My hubs is terminally ill and buying a happy hacker was supposed to give me an outlet. Hubs is also paralysed. I was very honest about what I was looking for and shocked when I found he was more green that I was led to believe.

I actually feel better knowing he was as bad for my friend. He is in no way being nasty. He is genuinely scared.

I am so very sorry for the situation you are in, with your husbands health to take into consideration as well. So sad for you. I would take him off the balancer as Kaimar suggests - my sons pony was a fruitcake on topspec, for instance. I hope it all works out for you. x

 

[LittleHoundDoggie]

Clodagh, what feed would you give him? I had him on nothing but hay and grass for two weeks (on vet advice) but he was no different. Thanks

 

[Clodagh]

Oh... a toughie then. Can you get completely plain, undressed chaff from a feed merchants? It is hard to find, you just want plain chopped straw. I would then put magnesium in that and give him nothing else, no sugary treats (carrots), nothing. I am no feed expert though there may be someone along who knows a lot more than me.
Could he live out? Is that an option where he is? If you could give him hay in the field.

 

[alliwantforchristmas]

hi, no real advice but can empathise a bit as when I tried my new lad he was literally foot perfect and a dream to ride and i have not felt so safe on anything in a very long time, and very 'quiet' in the yard to be tacked etc. However the seller had told me he was a worrier and sensitive to handle so I was kind of expecting things to fall apart a bit when i got him home. The first ten days were quite difficult, as he got a bit protective of himself in the stable and took to lunging/biting, but I basically just ignored it, just a quiet 'no' or 'a-ha' because I thought if he got more fearful of me he would bite more, and the biting has all gone now ... no biting for the last two weeks at least. He is a darling to lead, so we have done lots of inhand walks together for him to see everything and he hasn't put a foot wrong. He is a 'get on and go' sort of chap at the mounting block so we have worked on that, and it's much better, and I have done short rides in the school in a bitless bridle which is new to him and he is coping well. I've also led him out bitless. I've spent quite a bit of time just grooming him and hanging out with him, and got him much more comfortable with regards to being touched and groomed, but he still looks worried sometimes, and is headshy (have to take the bridle apart) but that is definitely improving, can now touch all the way up to his forehad and cheeks, whereas previously he'd just throw his head up and move away away if you tried to touch his head at all. We are still having wobbles - a big one yesterday with the farrier, for example - but he improved even during the short time the farrier took to trim him (no need to shoe here, ride straight onto open mountain) so I am not too worried. But bear in mind this is a horse I could do literally anything with before I bought him, and after our second ride together I was scratching his chest and he had his neck gently resting on my shoulder with his head over my back pulliing me into him! So that is a big change in a horse but I do feel he is just worried and unsettled. I'm definitely not as confident as I used to be after a big break not from owning horses, but from riding them, and i'm sure my lack of confidence feeds back to him, so I just try to not put us in situations where either of us is going to be very scared, just gently stretching comfort zones. If it means it's a couple of months or even longer before I'm doing the hacks I dream of I don't really care, as I've waited long enough for him so I'm not going to try to rush things now. I don't have anyone to ride out with and OH is only home occasionally, so it's important to keep both of us as safe as possible. The other thing I have found very useful is Ben Hart's shaping plans, I am working through the one for building trust and confidence with him, to give us something to focus on when I am on my own and don't feel brave enough to ride yet, and it is very satisfying working through the plan logically and meeting a little goal every day, or every couple of days. I found reading that helpful. I am sure we will have ups and downs ahead, but I think as long as you like your new horse and see his fears as genuine then that will go a long way to helping him through them

 

[alliwantforchristmas]

I also meant to say, I wonder if the fact that five of you are handling your new horse is making things harder for him - mine worries about every new person he meets and looks to me for 'reassurance' now. And is everyone handling him consistently? I think it's hard for horses when some people are 'firm', some ignore it and some may be scared and just try to get through it as best they can.