Misinformed animal do-gooders!!

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Gypley

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It makes me really cross when people who haven't got a clue what they're talking about get on their high horse (pardon the pun) about subjects they have next to no knowledge about!

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not medically trained, or an expert on any subject in particular. But I would like to think I've had horses long enough to have a bit of an insight as to how their brains work (albeit irrationally at times!)

A guy I work with has just brought up the topic of broken legs, and how he thinks its incredibly sad and irrisponsible to euthinise a horse without even giving it a chance of recovery.

I pointed out to him the sheer cost of putting an animal of that size through the long process of rehabilitation would not only turn it into a complete neurotic fruit loop, but the owner would probably have to sell their soul to the devil in order to fund it!

I also explained that the herding instinct in a horse would be compromised due to extensive periods of box rest. And even if the animal did make a full recovery, the bones would never be as strong as they once were and who's to say the leg wouldn't shatter whilst playing in the field!?!

But still colleague argued and told me that I was cruel and that surely if you asked the horse if it would prefer a bullet between the eyes or months in a stable it would choose the latter.

It's people like him that ultimately prolong suffering due to their misinformed, animal rights activist, pig headed opinions !

I did also point out, that god forbid an animal of mine broke its leg, that I would be sure to send the bill his way :D
 
My usual answer to that one is that a horse has one bone in its legs, unlike two of most other animals, and the way the horse is designed, if that bone is broken, the strains put on it would pull apart any attempt at repair of that bone.
Some small fractures can be healed, but other than that the above is true.
 
Half of the racehorses running today have had fractures repaired with screws and surgery and are fine, the fracture callouse and should be stronger, as far as going loopy again when you take the no of horses that have fractures i would say there are more racehorses that get fractures than others and they survive fine, yet they should be the ones most likely to go loopy, so no i disagree with you and unless it is a fracture that would compromise a healthy existence then every horse deserves a chance. Whether the owner can afford it or not is a different story........
 
I agree with you other than the point about the bone being weaker once healed. A bone is not the same as a damaged tendon/ligament and there is no reason why it would be weaker. The new bone that is laid down may well actually make it stronger
 
Putasocinit (sorry cant quote on phone) I think in relation to the racing world, a fracture would only be repaired if the racing yard felt it cost effictive enough to do so. Surely countless horses would not be put through the surgery if there was not a profit to be had. I'm not saying they don't give a monkeys about the animal itself as I'm sure it's welfare comes first but they are running a business after all.
 
Racehorses often get stress fractures which generally settle with box rest. A broken leg that is swinging in the breeze is another matter entirely and the main issue in pinning/plating a fracture like that is the weight of the animal compared to say a dog/cat with a similar fracture as it puts the metalwork under too much strain for a successful outcome.
 
A misinformed animal dogooder is someone who thinks your pony has no food as there is hardly any grass and throws fresh cut lawn over the wall for him.

Yes, this happened to my old pony and it very very nearly killed him. Cue lots of posters being stuck to the wall to explain Laminitis and starvation paddocks and so on.

The guy you talk about doesn't come across as a dogooder...more of just someone with an opinion that differs to yours.

So, he would like to think that should a horse suffer a broken leg, that the owner would do what they could to save its life. Nothing wrong with that.

Not all horses are bad with prolonged box rest and there are ways of managing it. Not all breaks are untreatable. Repaired bone isn't necessarily weaker than it was pre break.

This is just a difference of opinion and I don't think his lack of equine knowledge has any relevance.

A dogooder does something, which he hasn't.

Sorry OP, but i'd let this go if I were you...there's far more to be annoyed about unfortunately.
 
It depends on the break, the horse and the owner's circumstances surely?

This little mare fractured her leg in racing:
530155_10200869685091511_434088072_n.jpg

Had it pinned, 6 months off (3 months box rest), and was being aimed for a fairly decent eventing career (she was insanely talented)- this photo is about a year post-fracture. Other things conspired against her and she was PTS last month but her leg never caused a minute of bother.

However, my sister had a pony who was kicked and fractured her shoulder. She was PTS as the recovery was not suitable for her, and it was in an unfortunate area.
 
The conversation was more steered towards the 'swinging in the breeze' variety. And we were speaking of horses as a whole as opposed to just racehorses. I for one certainly wouldn't put either of mine through a long drawn out process like that. But each to their own and long as your reasons are based on fact as opposed to "because I think it's cruel to shoot it "
 
No matter how much is spent, they may to get laminitis - see the case of Barbaro. Or ulcers. Or something else.

It's more the people that worry about everyday stuff, like horses being out in the rain without rugs (Welsh Mountain Ponies with shelter) and think that's cruel. Or like my mum, bless her, who asks me often whether horses do not get bored with eating grass... (err, what did they evolve to eat again?).
 
Gypley said:
The conversation was more steered towards the 'swinging in the breeze' variety. And we were speaking of horses as a whole as opposed to just racehorses. I for one certainly wouldn't put either of mine through a long drawn out process like that. But each to their own and long as your reasons are based on fact as opposed to "because I think it's cruel to shoot it "
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Well then I would say it wouldn't matter what you said...some people have strong opinions for the sheer sake of it. If he brings it up again...tell him you'll listen to him after he has had first hand experience. We all have different views, but some horses can be saved, even with terrible breaks. Maybe he's seen those stories so refuses to see the reality in most situations.

You can't control how he thinks, so don't let it get to you ;)
 
Gypley said:
The conversation was more steered towards the 'swinging in the breeze' variety. And we were speaking of horses as a whole as opposed to just racehorses. I for one certainly wouldn't put either of mine through a long drawn out process like that. But each to their own and long as your reasons are based on fact as opposed to "because I think it's cruel to shoot it "
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Ah well, no doubt you'll think I and the thousands of others who've had horses on box rest for tendons are cruel. 7 months my girl did in order to come right. I don't think fruit loop was any where near how she was. Provided people feed according to conditions most horses are fine.

I'm not certain that there was only one mis-informed person in your office conversation.
 
Given your title, you're pretty misinformed yourself, OP :rolleyes:

I particularly like the idea of a horse with a "herding" instinct. 'cos that's something I'd pay to see :D

FWIW, I don't see a problem with shooting a horse which won't stand up to long term work, has a poor prognosis or won't cope with rehab... But that's an individual decision for the horse and the specific nature of the injury, not a blanket statement.

I have no regrets about choosing box rest and rehab for Fergs when he chip fractured his radius as a 5 year old. He was (and is) happy in his stable, remained chilled throughout and has been sound for two years, jumping, galloping and all sorts.
 
jemima*askin said:
Ah well, no doubt you'll think I and the thousands of others who've had horses on box rest for tendons are cruel. 7 months my girl did in order to come right. I don't think fruit loop was any where near how she was. Provided people feed according to conditions most horses are fine.

I'm not certain that there was only one mis-informed person in your office conversation.
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Anyone between maybe 28-34 that went to Hartpury will remember Teasle. A beautiful 15.2hh fleabitten grey mare that came out of her stable one day on 3 legs. She had suffered avulsion of the capsule joint. That horse meant the world to me and Hartpury and she was on 6 months box rest initially, had surgery when it was finally diagnosed and then a further 9 months box rest. With the exception of the day of surgery, she did not have one moment outside that stable. Even at the very end, she was as chilled out as always. Se had no effects whatsoever of being on such long box rest. Hartpury were amazing and Teasle went on to enjoy a retirement of light work and happy hacking after I was told she may still need putting to sleep if the operation didn't work.

The way I see it, if there is a chance that extended box rest can result in a life free of pain, whatever that life may be, it is worth the effort. There will be some horses who can't cope, but I believe it is worth finding that out, not just assuming it.

RIP Teasle...you were a star on earth and you are now one of my stars in the sky x
 
We had a horse at work a few years ago that fractured something. Rehabed etc, and back in work, cue her fracturing a different leg, of the swinging in the breeze variety, and she was put down, it wasn't fixable. Some are some aren't. Cost does also play a part.
Another horse, vet wanted to put down, damaged at races, owner said is there any chance at all, cost immaterial (not a top class horse by the way) vet said outside chance he would be paddock sound. Horse was racing following season, unbelievable recovery.
One of mine had his fractued knee screwed back together, took 2 years to come right, but he is now back competing.
 
Jemima, we were speaking of breaks as opposed to tendon injuries. But your decision to put your horse on box rest for that period of time would have been based on your knowledge and temperament of your own horse and the oppion of a medical professional. It would have also been based on whether or not you could afford any treatment required and if the animals quality of life would be compromised in the long run. Having weighed all this up you decided that box rest was a suitable option for your horse.
Your decision was not based on head in the clouds, dream land theories, that all horse owners have an endless pot of money to lavish their horse in all forms of physio and rehab. It was not based on the assumption that you could explain to the horse in plain English that although they are not too happy being cooped up all day, would they mind baring with us for a few months with we pump you with sedatives and isolate you from your own kind for months on end.
Do t get me wrong, if its an option that is suitable both financially and with the given horses temperament, then by all means go ahead.
But I do resent being made to feel like satan for taking the individual horse into consideration. It is not suitable for every horse as my collegue seemed to believe just because we CAN fix something doesn't always mean that we should.
 
Gypley said:
Jemima, we were speaking of breaks as opposed to tendon injuries. But your decision to put your horse on box rest for that period of time would have been based on your knowledge and temperament of your own horse and the oppion of a medical professional. It would have also been based on whether or not you could afford any treatment required and if the animals quality of life would be compromised in the long run. Having weighed all this up you decided that box rest was a suitable option for your horse.
Your decision was not based on head in the clouds, dream land theories, that all horse owners have an endless pot of money to lavish their horse in all forms of physio and rehab. It was not based on the assumption that you could explain to the horse in plain English that although they are not too happy being cooped up all day, would they mind baring with us for a few months with we pump you with sedatives and isolate you from your own kind for months on end.
Do t get me wrong, if its an option that is suitable both financially and with the given horses temperament, then by all means go ahead.
But I do resent being made to feel like satan for taking the individual horse into consideration. It is not suitable for every horse as my collegue seemed to believe just because we CAN fix something doesn't always mean that we should.
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Just don't discuss things with colleagues like that they I assume don't own a horse so there is little point in taking the effort in trying to educate them , it creates bad feeling so just don't go there.
For every horse I buy I prioritise teaching them to settle in the stable so I can box rest them the effort and time it takes and sometimes it's a lot could save their life .
Like Lolo I had a grey mare who broke her leg , surgery ,three months box rest and three months walking and her life went on as nothing had happened worth the effort of the stable training and that horse arrived very silly in the stable.
Many leg fractures are pretty easy to fix I would rather deal with say a shattered splint bone than a damaged suspensory .
 
Goldenstar, myself and collegue are very good friends and both enjoy heated debates with each other. He knows how to push my buttons and I him (you only have to say the word immigration for him to get his soap box out :P) so there's no bad feeling in the office hehe !
 
Lol, wonder what he would think of mine, no breaks but 3 years with varying periods of box rest, first PSD, then tenosynovitis, now tendonitis (7 weeks minimum left) all in different legs. I swear he just likes to annoy the insurance company as well as seeing me muck out :mad:
 
Goldenstar said:
Just don't discuss things with colleagues like that they I assume don't own a horse so there is little point in taking the effort in trying to educate them , it creates bad feeling so just don't go there.
.
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I have a work colleague who believes shoes and bits are cruel and keeping horses outside in a field is cruel also. Unless they have a rug on....;)

I just don't get into any of that with her anymore. Lifes too short.

FWIW....my old horse had a broken leg- he came back into full work including jumping after boxrest.....
 
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