Mixing stallions and colts?

[Dry Rot]

I had my Highland stallion happily running with two 2yo colts, both his sons. All was peace and tranquility. I then introduced a yearling colt, another son. The stallion literally tried to kill him and I only got him out by manipulating gates.

I next put the yearling with the 2yo's and took out the stallion. One of the colts had a 'go' at him and I decided to cut my loses and remove him. He is now happily sharing a field with a gelding.

I've discussed this with two farriers (separately). Both farriers reckon the stallion sees the yearling as a possible rival and one says he never will accept the yearling and to forget about putting them together. I have seen them mutually grooming over the gate and they seem friendly enough with a fence between them. There are no mares involved (other than separated by a double fence) as I decided not to breed this year. The only thing that is different is that the yearling is an unusual colour for my lot, possibly a yellow dun. Would that be enough to trigger the aggression? And will the stallion ever accept the yearling? Is there any way I can encourage them to live happily together (I'm getting a bit short of small paddocks!)?

 

[teabiscuit]

I personally think colour has no bearing. What ever the reason, the stallion and the 2 year old don't like the yearling. I personally wouldn't try again, if you think the stallion was trying to kill him. They could gang up on him.
I've seen a stallion try to kill a mare, they mean it when they have a go.

 

[Dry Rot]

The "victim" is actually a colt I'd like to keep as a stallion, so maybe the current stallion's hatred is a recommendation!

 

[ribbons]

I personally think colour has no bearing. What ever the reason, the stallion and the 2 year old don't like the yearling. I personally wouldn't try again, if you think the stallion was trying to kill him. They could gang up on him.
I've seen a stallion try to kill a mare, they mean it when they have a go.

Have no idea if colouring has any bearing in this particular case, but my herd of mares are bay, black, chestnut and grey.
Other mares of these colours are introduced and removed on occasion with no problem at all.
Twice I have introduced palomino mares and on both occasions one of my mares became furious, hounding it, striking, kicking and biting continually. She definitely doesn't like palomino.

 

[pennyturner]

FWIW, one of my stallions took a dislike to a gelding - a very proud gelding - earlier this year and ran it through a fence. Things were very tense for a month or two (we kept them together), but in time they've become good friends. Our herd (5 stallions, 6 geldings) is very chilled, so this helped, plus the fact that we expect them to be tacked and ridden alongside without misbehaving.

If your yard is normally relaxed (as it sounds), I'd put them in adjoining paddocks until they're used to each other, and try again. It might help to bring them in together a few times, even just to brush them and put them back again.

 

[teabiscuit]

Ribbons I was just pondering in this situation. I think horses can dislike certain colours. I just thought here it would be more likely a gonad problem. But I'm just guessing.
If you try reintroducing the yearling, do as. PT suggested then once you're happy they can go out together, meself , I'd not leave them for the first day, and being paranoid, I'd separate them at night for a while. I err on the side of caution
Good luck

 

[JanetGeorge]

I was left with one yearling colt a few years back - the gelded yearlings were down the road and he couldn't join them. So I decided to put him with the 2 year old group which contained one very quiet colt and a couple of geldings. The yearling kept trying to build a fight with the 2 year old - who tried and tried to tolerate him until his temper gave way and he put the yearling on the floor! That was the end of that!

 

[teabiscuit]

Aye, they can sort themselves out, but you need to weigh each situation up risk wise.
The stallion and the two year old are attacking a yearling. I'd be very cautious, if I wanted to keep the yearling in one piece.

 

[Dry Rot]

There was a certain amount of chasing around when I introduced the first two colts, but they seemed to have take it in turns to be chased and the stallion was exhausted before he could catch either! I'll try some of the advice given here. Thanks for some interesting ideas.

 

[AmyMay]

How about gelding them??

 

[Dry Rot]

How about gelding them??

Unfortunately, they heard the vet was coming and retracted their testicles.

"The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men, Gang aft agley…"

 

[ridefast]

Was her seriously going for the yearling, as in injuring him, not backing off? I've only seen a stallion with his sons once, first his yearling son was put with him, that was fine, then his 3 year old son (gelded) put in with him, whom he had been with previously, and he ran him ragged for days, kept him right to the edge of the field but after about a week he let him into the herd and there were no problems. He never actually injured him though, he bit his hair but not his skin. As it's a larger group perhaps you could take it slow, either just the yearling with the stallion or just the yearling with the colt, or with each one at a time then slowly re-introduce each one separately.

 

[honetpot]

I think when ever you add an odd one to an established group there will be a bit of argy bargy, nothing to do with the sex as my mares can be absolute b******. I would split them up into two couples, so that the baby bonds with that one, then at the later stage put them in together, in my experience the couple will graze separately before eventually settling into a group. There will still be a bit of my k**** are bigger than yours but if they have enough space no one should get hurt.
My bully of a gelding got in with the mares and the top mare made mincemeat of him, you could here the thwack across the field, both barrels, no harm done.

 

[teabiscuit]

A bit of the old argy bargy is normal. It's just that dry rot used the word kill.

 

[Dry Rot]

Was her seriously going for the yearling, as in injuring him, not backing off? I've only seen a stallion with his sons once, first his yearling son was put with him, that was fine, then his 3 year old son (gelded) put in with him, whom he had been with previously, and he ran him ragged for days, kept him right to the edge of the field but after about a week he let him into the herd and there were no problems. He never actually injured him though, he bit his hair but not his skin. As it's a larger group perhaps you could take it slow, either just the yearling with the stallion or just the yearling with the colt, or with each one at a time then slowly re-introduce each one separately.

The stallion eventually got the yearling in a corner and was giving him a good threshing. The poor wee chap was cut up both sides. Fortunately, they were superficial cuts but still not nice. I dread to think what the outcome might have been if I had not intervened.

I think I should add that this stallion is always very quiet and soft with people, so much so that when taken to shows, everyone thinks he is a gelding. He is ridden and led around by kids (with their mothers always present, let me hasten to add!). Video here: http://youtu.be/9EqALDTliuk

Edited to say I've seen plenty of skirmishes between mares and this attack was not the same thing at all. It certainly seemed to me that the stallion was intent on killing him -- but I could be wrong. The farriers understood exactly what I had seen. In contrast, when the 2yo's were introduced, one gave the "I'm a foal and harmless so don't hurt me" mouthing and was left relatively in peace while the other was chased around a bit until both were tired, then they all resumed grazing.

 

[Dry Rot]

An update.

For some reason, I failed to latch a gate properly this morning. (I was thinking how to juggle ponies and paddocks to keep the thawing of water troughs to a minimum). Then I went down with some more hay and found the stallion had got in with the gelding and the yearling he tried to kill earlier. (And, yes, it did look like intended murder to me!).

The ponies were down the far end, almost out of sight, where I had put hay out earlier. I could see the stallion and the gelding. The stallion was repeatedly lowering his head and the yearling was out of sight….

With my heart pumping as I got closer I could see the colt next to the stallion. Both were happily picking at the hay with the stallion having the occasional nuzzle at the colt! I've seen them since happily grazing. The mares are in the next field but separated by a double fence with a three metre gap. I was about to introduce the two 2yo colts but then remembered one was a mane/tail eater, hopefully cured with a sauce of Vaseline and paprika, so I'll leave that a while until he is proved to be a reformed character!

So all's well that end's well. Presumably the hatred of a possible rival is strongly hormonal as none of my mares are in season at this time of the year. The 2yo's will be castrated in the spring.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and wisdom. So today's mistake in not shutting a gate properly has had a happy ending!

 

[varkie]

If introducing a stallion to another stallion or a colt, or even a gelding, I don't put the new pony in the stallions field - that is asking for trouble. You are putting an interloper on the stallions territory, as far as the stallion is concerned. It is better to put the new pony in a different field, and introduce the stallion in there. I also know some older breeders who will bath them first, and even pop Vicks under their noses - not sure about the value of the Vicks, but I can see that bathing would remove scents which could cause issues.

 

[Dry Rot]

If introducing a stallion to another stallion or a colt, or even a gelding, I don't put the new pony in the stallions field - that is asking for trouble. You are putting an interloper on the stallions territory, as far as the stallion is concerned. It is better to put the new pony in a different field, and introduce the stallion in there. I also know some older breeders who will bath them first, and even pop Vicks under their noses - not sure about the value of the Vicks, but I can see that bathing would remove scents which could cause issues.

That makes sense. And the stallion did go into the gelding's and colt's field….

 

[teabiscuit]

Good, still I'd keep a close eye on him. I used a dog anti chew spray to deter unwanted biting (play fighting always biting the same spot resulting in thickening skin).the stuff you can put on them, not the furniture stuff. Can't remember the name but much less messy than vaseline mixes, which also worked.

 

[Dry Rot]

Good, still I'd keep a close eye on him. I used a dog anti chew spray to deter unwanted biting (play fighting always biting the same spot resulting in thickening skin).the stuff you can put on them, not the furniture stuff. Can't remember the name but much less messy than vaseline mixes, which also worked.

They chew the hair off the tail about half way down which I suppose is a handy height. The skin is never touched. So I have a couple of Highland ponies that looked like old fashioned cart horses -- but they are growing.

Funnily enough, three foals, all from the same mother, all had this habit and then there were a couple who picked up the habit from them. Now we are alerted to the problem their mothers get daubed quite early on. So far, so good.

Sprays did not work for us. They just made everyone head shy as they really don't like the sound of the sprayer. So plastering the tail with something nasty by hand is the preferred remedy. Unfortunately, paprika mixed with Vaseline looks like something else that is not very nice!

 

[teabiscuit]

Ah mostly mine don't care about sprays lol, one hated it but Clicker training sorted that.
I know what you mean about the vaseline , I once tried insanity Dave extra hot sauce and vaseline lol. Madness the things we do!

 

[Dry Rot]

I've a small breeding herd of Highland ponies so desensitising them all to sprays is just not practical. I did get them all inside once and tried to squirt liquid Cribox through the gate onto their tails with a water pistol. They would not speak to me for weeks! So, now it is rubber gloves and them all looking as if they have digestive upsets. The Vaseline/paprika mixture was prompted by my meanness, but it does seem to work!

 

[teabiscuit]

Lol that conjures up quite a picture. I'm not surprised they were disapproving