Money Farmers - Panorama 8:30 5/03/12

[Judgemental]

This will be worth watching, an investigation into the farming subsidy system.

Remember all those margins you are not allowed to ride on, of course, most farmers with simply say, "there is not a grain of truth in the programme".

That will upset the apple cart

 

[Alec Swan]

I shall watch this with a deal of interest.

Perhaps I shouldn't preempt the outcome of the programme, but I have yet to understand how, or why, the system seems to support those who have no interest or experience of farming, and simply milk the system.

For all that we may complain about the French, at least they had a revolution. Perhaps that's what we need.

Alec.

 

[AdorableAlice]

This will be worth watching, an investigation into the farming subsidy system.

Remember all those margins you are not allowed to ride on, of course, most farmers with simply say, "there is not a grain of truth in the programme".

That will upset the apple cart

No need to worry about margins, without farmers and landowners there will be no hunting and everything that goes with it, point to pointing, hunter trails etc etc.

 

[Judgemental]

No need to worry about margins, without farmers and landowners there will be no hunting and everything that goes with it, point to pointing, hunter trails etc etc.

I see, AdorableAlice, I don't think I have had the pleasure hitherto.

Why do I have a feeling this just might turn into one of those long and probably turgid debates. No doubt the programme will fuel a number of contrasting opinions.

AdorableAlice, land is not being made anymore and subsidy or no subsidy hunting will still continue.

On the other hand, surely you are not suggesting hunting only exists as a result of subsidies?

 

[Orangehorse]

I didn't see the programme, although OH did, but there was a very good article on this theme in one of last week's farming magazines.

It seems bizarre - and did at the time - that the current farm payment system was drawn up by a Labour Minister, Margaret Beckett, that has had the effect of benefiting landowners more than the people doing the farming.

However, until the past year when commodity prices shot up overnight, all the farmers I know - mid range, mid size family farms with no other income - have for many, many years made less overall profit from farming than they received from the farm subsidy. In other words everyone was operating at a loss, working all year for nothing. We were, however, keeping a lot of other people in business at the same time, including the spray and fertilizer manufacturers who immediately put up their prices the second that they think farmers can pay more.

The purpose of subsidies has been to keep food prices stable, and farmers to keep producing, so they are not so much a subsidy for farmers, but for consumers.

 

[AmyMay]

Saw the programme, and will be registering as a farming 'business' today.....

It was quite shocking actually - and to think that the government are not really bothered / prepared to do anything about it is incredible!

 

[combat_claire]

More farmer bashing from the BBC, who never seem to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

What they failed to mention was that you do still need to own land to hold entitlements and claim subsidy and that you also have to abide strict regulations known as cross-compliance. They also failed to mention the fact that there will be further CAP Reform in 2014 which has already proposed several corrective measures linked to the capping of payments, definitions of active farmers etc.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/12/10/2011/129534/CAP-reform-proposals-unveiled-in-Brussels.htm

 

[Dulcerstone]

The programme did mention the 2014 reforms and a lot of it focused on the Scottish system - which is different from the English. All you need to do is rent land not own it.

 

[AmyMay]

More farmer bashing from the BBC, who never seem to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

What they failed to mention was that you do still need to own land to hold entitlements and claim subsidy and that you also have to abide strict regulations known as cross-compliance. They also failed to mention the fact that there will be further CAP Reform in 2014 which has already proposed several corrective measures linked to the capping of payments, definitions of active farmers etc.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/12/10/2011/129534/CAP-reform-proposals-unveiled-in-Brussels.htm

It was all mentioned on the programe, and land ownership is not required, just possession.

 

[Judgemental]

The impression I received from the programme, was the wholesale reluctance of landowners and farmers in England and Wales to talk about the various payments. Whereas their Scottish counterparts were not so bothered.

The real problem is the secrecy concerning just about anything to do with landownership, who owns what, how much they paid for it when and how long they have owned it. I dare say in some dusty vault there is a Secret Tome marked For The Ministers Eyes Only.

It's a great pity that all these dukes, earls and lesser nobility can't be up front on camera and state exactly what they own and exactly how much they are paid.

In my humble opinion the more these things are shrouded in secrecy and veils drawn over the facts, the more folk will ask and be aggrieved as to the apparent unfairness.

Open up and most people will not be bothered, least of all the media.

The story is not about the actual money paid to already very wealthy people, but the secrecy.

 

[jrp204]

"It's a great pity that all these dukes, earls and lesser nobility can't be up front on camera and state exactly what they own and exactly how much they are paid."

Do these 'landowners' actually get the subsidies or do their tenants?

 

[Judgemental]

"It's a great pity that all these dukes, earls and lesser nobility can't be up front on camera and state exactly what they own and exactly how much they are paid."

Do these 'landowners' actually get the subsidies or do their tenants?

Its academic because the tenants simply pay rent to the dukes, earls and lesser nobility and without such as the Single Farm Payment etc, they, the tenants would not be able to pay their rent.

 

[Orangehorse]

There is a website somewhere that shows you how much every farmer gets, so it is public information.

Rent reviews coming up, and the SFP is factored in to what tenants will be asked to pay.

 

[jrp204]

Its academic because the tenants simply pay rent to the dukes, earls and lesser nobility and without such as the Single Farm Payment etc, they, the tenants would not be able to pay their rent.

Hmm, never noticed that. We are tenant farmers and yes the sfp makes a huge difference, it means we pay our rent etc but the entitlement is in our name and not our landlords. If and when we give up the land we will walk away with something sellable and it will be up to our landlord to buy the entitlements from us should he want them. We would be unable to farm with out renting so if our landowner was a Lord, the Queen or just a neighbour who has retired we would still pay a rent to them and the price per acre would vary little, infact the biggest problem we have down here is competing for land against the cauli/potato boys who will pay much higher rents regardless of the landlord and regardless of the sfp.

 

[Judgemental]

Hmm, never noticed that. We are tenant farmers and yes the sfp makes a huge difference, it means we pay our rent etc but the entitlement is in our name and not our landlords. If and when we give up the land we will walk away with something sellable and it will be up to our landlord to buy the entitlements from us should he want them. We would be unable to farm with out renting so if our landowner was a Lord, the Queen or just a neighbour who has retired we would still pay a rent to them and the price per acre would vary little, infact the biggest problem we have down here is competing for land against the cauli/potato boys who will pay much higher rents regardless of the landlord and regardless of the sfp.

And presumably the Life Style buyers who in my opinion, should be banned. Never spend any money in the village and are simply parasites on rural society and the rural economic infrastructure.