Monsters in the corner and stretching

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StoptheCavalry

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Took my boy to our neighbours school last night along with a friend (also an instructor) to have a bit of a play. To be honest my main aim was to blow a few cobwebs away as we have mainly had slower hacks recently and he has been getting ants in his pants. He was a little wild before we actually made it in the school due to sheep and a bit of wind. Anyway this is the second time we have been in this particular outdoor school and both times he has taken a real disliking to one corner. He will fix his eyes on it and shoot off, head right down threatening to rodeo. My friend did suggest really over exaggerating the inside bend while circling in that corner which did work and gradually easing the bend. I wouldn't say he was fixed but it got a bit better, still very hurried through the corner though. I have recently removed his flash which is making him a bit more of a challenge but I am wanting to work through this, he is the master of pretending he is relaxed to get an easy ride then taking the pee. Anyway..... does anyone have any ideas for getting him through this? In my eyes I think I need to be persistent, go in there until that corner becomes really dull, lots of changes of rein etc so it isn't such a drama when we go in. He's very clever and always seems to come up with a way to evade mostly in trot, he's actually very soft in canter. He is up to date with all checks etc so I genuinely don't think its a pain issue back or mouth I think he's just clever and hasn't quite worked out that I WILL win eventually.

I'm finding the whole thing a little demoralising to be honest. I feel like eventually I always win the battle during the session but next time we go in I am sure he will be the same we don't actually seem to make any long term progress and in the process I am being thrown around so unable to improve my riding really. I am having lessons and he behaves the same in them so lots of circles to slow him etc, eventually he will soften so we end on a good note but not actually moving forwards.

And on a side note.... Does anyone stretch before/after riding? I have noticed while being thrown around I am quite stiff after riding particularly the morning after. With any other exercise I would stretch but to be honest it has never crossed my mind with riding.

Sorry a long one and a bit of a rant.... I have brownies...:)
 
Sounds like your horse has a lot of different issues he's trying to make you aware of.

I'd get an instructor who is in tune with horses and doesn't just try to bulldozer through the horses opinion.

If you're not progressing, you are actually going backwards and small thinbgs will become massive problems if they are not addressed.

Nothing you describe is out of the ordinary, just needs appropreate responses.
 
When my horse has monster in the corner syndrome, I start work at the other end until she is listening then gradually work closer so 10 meter circles at x increase to 15 till eventually we're there and shes not noticed! Also inside bend as youve mentioned and sometime leg yield into the scary bit
 
Pale Rider said:
Sounds like your horse has a lot of different issues he's trying to make you aware of.

I'd get an instructor who is in tune with horses and doesn't just try to bulldozer through the horses opinion.

If you're not progressing, you are actually going backwards and small thinbgs will become massive problems if they are not addressed.

Nothing you describe is out of the ordinary, just needs appropreate responses.
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Thanks for the reply.

As I have said I am having lessons and infact it was the instructor who has said to remove his flash and martingale and establish why he is doing these things rather than cover them up. If anything I am more hard on him than she was. The problem is I know him and he gets this naughty look on his face and once he has realised he can do something ie running away from the corner so he has to stop working he will keep trying it. For example, he will really soften so I will give, the second I give will start throwing his head around and prancing or ploughing forwards. It seems for him it is a game to see how many different ways he can avoid work, unless that work is something he wants to do where he will work nicely. In each individual schooling session I always end on a positive note so we got the walk trot and canter through the 'scary' corner without tanking off and with less bend but I just know next time we go I will have to start that again, and short of staying in there all night till he decides to stop fighting I am not sure how to move forwards
 
Mrs C said:
When my horse has monster in the corner syndrome, I start work at the other end until she is listening then gradually work closer so 10 meter circles at x increase to 15 till eventually we're there and shes not noticed! Also inside bend as youve mentioned and sometime leg yield into the scary bit
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Hello

Thanks for this. In the end this was what we tried and he did seem to get it. He seems to lack focus so the slightest thing will take his attention and we have to start again. I would like to add I'm not even really asking him to work in a proper outline just to soften slightly and not bulldoze around. I guess it is just perseverance with him. He's a pain!! :)
 
Mine was always like this when I first got him and is sometimes like it now. But generally much much better.

I do a lot of pole work as it gets him stretching out and gives him something to concentrate on.

He was very stiff on one side and as he started stretching and I worked on this, he stopped seeing circles as such a terrible thing. I was quite firm with him but found distraction worked best.

My horse is generally wiling to please though. He just likes to see what he can get away with.
 
bluewhippet said:
Mine was always like this when I first got him and is sometimes like it now. But generally much much better.

I do a lot of pole work as it gets him stretching out and gives him something to concentrate on.

He was very stiff on one side and as he started stretching and I worked on this, he stopped seeing circles as such a terrible thing. I was quite firm with him but found distraction worked best.

My horse is generally wiling to please though. He just likes to see what he can get away with.
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Zak is the same. He's very sweet and not malicious but he likes the easy life if he can help it. I think pole work would help us and give him some thing to think about. Did you do stretching exercises while ridden and on the ground, if so other than pole work was it just a lot of bending etc?

Thank you
 
StoptheCavalry said:
Thanks for the reply.

As I have said I am having lessons and infact it was the instructor who has said to remove his flash and martingale and establish why he is doing these things rather than cover them up. If anything I am more hard on him than she was. The problem is I know him and he gets this naughty look on his face and once he has realised he can do something ie running away from the corner so he has to stop working he will keep trying it. For example, he will really soften so I will give, the second I give will start throwing his head around and prancing or ploughing forwards. It seems for him it is a game to see how many different ways he can avoid work, unless that work is something he wants to do where he will work nicely. In each individual schooling session I always end on a positive note so we got the walk trot and canter through the 'scary' corner without tanking off and with less bend but I just know next time we go I will have to start that again, and short of staying in there all night till he decides to stop fighting I am not sure how to move forwards
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Changed my mind about your instructor:D.

I'd be doing some ground work with him until I thought his head was in the right place to get on. I'd work him on the ground for 10 minutes really asking him to think.

I don't lunge so I don't mean lunging, this is no help. You need to get his head in gear.
 
I agree, I struggle to get him to focus. The slightest distraction or escape route and he's off again. What would you do on the ground? Obviously other than lunging? I should also so I refrain from ever having him completely loose, particularly on his own. He has separation anxiety with other horses and will just bomb around desperately trying to find friends again not paying any attention to me. I make him sounds like quite a treat don't I :) he does have his good points honestly. I think I just need to instil a bit of calm into him
 
I agree, I struggle to get him to focus. The slightest distraction or escape route and he's off again. What would you do on the ground? Obviously other than lunging? I should also so I refrain from ever having him completely loose, particularly on his own. He has separation anxiety with other horses and will just bomb around desperately trying to find friends again not paying any attention to me. I make him sounds like quite a treat don't I :) he does have his good points honestly. I think I just need to instil a bit of calm into him
 
Make him walk on a long rein until he is bored ;), joking a bit but walking on a long rein really helps my mare settle, as well as warming up her back muscles, but I make her stretch with a walk as long/stretched as she can comfortably handle, for a good 5 minutes (or at first until she walks everywhere I want in the menage without spooking). Not a super fast walk but not sedated either. If she lift her head I remind her that her job is "a positive forward walk", like the free walk in the dressage tests.
Lots of breaks in the session, as some horses try to evade work by spooking because it's hard. Again, the break is on a long rein at walk and horse has got to relax/lenghten the neck before we pick up again.
Stay calm, use the leg yield on the circle to control the horse when he wants to spook/tank off, straighten up, breath, slow him down and ask him to engage his hind end and work through with the leg yield on the circle. After a few good circles, you can give a break so the horse has time to think and assimilate the lesson.
I would put him on a magnesium/good mineral supplement if not already on it and think of possible ulcers if he is a hard keeper/girthy/touchy.
It took my mare about a year before she started trusting me and looking forward to me when scared.
 
This is really helpful thank you (sorry can't quote as on my phone) he is being fed mag ox although to be honest really not finding its making much of a difference so may be wasting my time. He did seem to get a bit better as the session went on and I did do a bit of what you said ie the breaks, circles etc. will try staying in a relaxed walk at first to get him to calm before working although he's generally so "looky" that a loose rein consists of his head right in the air looking at everything and breaking into the occasional jog possibly taking off depending how terrifying the nothing in the corner is :) I think he need to realise behaving like a plonker doesn't get him far and it's easier to be nice, why does reasoning with your horse never work?!?!
 
If he's prone to being a bit of a monkey, rather than being genuinely scared, have you tried working him into a decent contact and forcing him to focus on you, and then once you have his focus allow him to stretch? Bee loves imaginary monsters, and this method works well with her.

She's not the sort you can force to do anything, but you can tell when she's worried and when she's just trying it on...
 
Lolo said:
If he's prone to being a bit of a monkey, rather than being genuinely scared, have you tried working him into a decent contact and forcing him to focus on you, and then once you have his focus allow him to stretch? Bee loves imaginary monsters, and this method works well with her.

She's not the sort you can force to do anything, but you can tell when she's worried and when she's just trying it on...
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I think he's very good at acting genuinely scared. He's very honest but very clever so I think if he sees a way out he will take it. I can tell when he's actually worried as his body changes. I have tried working him into the contact which tends to be very effective for a little while then either something will take his attention or he will pretend to relax, I will give and his nose will end up in the air again and we will get faster and faster. I completely understand why he used to have the flash on, he just goes round with his mouth hanging open. He's up to date with his teeth so I am sure it isn't that. I'm desperately trying to get to the bottom of it before I resort to closing his mouth for him! We have flashes of really nice work but it is never consistent. Damn animals!! Last night I felt like throwing in the towel and deciding to just hack him, he likes it and kind of mostly behaves :o

I rode with a friend last night who also teaches and even she said you can see in his eye he's not scared (he really is the kind of horse who shows everything on his face) and she thinks he's trying to test me as I haven't done much schooling with him recently after moving yards so he's trying to find the easy way out, and that I just need to be clear, consistent and not take and c**p from him.
 
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StoptheCavalry said:
Zak is the same. He's very sweet and not malicious but he likes the easy life if he can help it. I think pole work would help us and give him some thing to think about. Did you do stretching exercises while ridden and on the ground, if so other than pole work was it just a lot of bending etc?

Thank you
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I did and do lots of carrot stretches and then lunge in an equi ami (quite loose) and also do a lot of hill work and he is going very long and low now (which the physio thought was the way forward) and is generally much more relaxed now when ridden.

He really messes about schooling, and trotting poles and changing direction has really helped us. I got the book 101 Show Jumping Exercises and it has been brilliant for schooling. The whole first section deals with grids of poles, serpentines, circles etc and it has really got him concentrating instead of playing around and trying to get out of work.
 
Is it possible to keep your schooling lessons short and sweet and keep him working, and also try and get him a bit more responsive when hacking.

I joke about my horse being spooky and awful, but he is really very good now and sounds quite similar to yours when I got him. I found that a lot of the work was done out hacking. I didn't abandon the school and I had regular lessons but you can get quite a lot of things sorted out while you are out of the school. And as we went past demons (tractors etc) and he didn't get eaten, his confidence in me grew as well. I think that has paid off now when I school him.
 
Hello

Sorry I can't quote as I am on my phone. I actually have an equi ami which I haven't used yet so might dig that out and give that a go along with the trotting poles you have suggested etc.

Zak is quite odd, while very occasionally he will look at something on a hack he is generally very un-spooky, unless in one of his sillier moods. He more often than not leads through killer road works and would rather go and investigate tractors than spook at them. This all leads me to think its not a genuine spook and more trying to avoid working. He is generally more relaxed in all paces while hacking also. He never runs ahead in trot or canter and is very responsive. I think because of all this I am probably also more relaxed. I am going to try and get in the school as much as possible, not necessarily to work even just to walk round like some of you have suggested and try and vary his work load. At no point have I really asked for correct work, I don't think this would be fair given our lack of schooling over recent months, he probably isn't 'schooling fit' but I do expect him to be responsive and not take off at the drop of a hat. I am definitely going to try the stretches also though as hopefully if he is slightly looser he won't find what I am asking quite so challenging. I also tend to only school for short bursts anyway, I want to make the running off boring but I would hate for him to become completely stale in the school if that makes sense.

Thanks so much for all the responses, feel slightly more positive that its not just me.
 
having the same issue with Fabio at the moment. Its always one corner of the school and on one rein. I don't think he's scared, i think he's just taking the mick out of me. Been having a few confidence wobbles the past couple of months and this only really started then so i think i'm the direct cause of it. I tried working him hard in that corner but have gone back to working in the 'nice' end and gradually circling up to the 'scary' corner which seems to be working better. I can normally keep a lid on it in walk and trot, but in canter he does a side shimmy and harder to control. Getting there.....slower progress than i'd like as i'm very impatient but unfortunately nothing i can do but take it slowly!
 
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