Moral dilemma - would you put down...

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mrussell

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This is partly because we are facing this dilemma and partly out of interest to see what other people would do..

We have a 19 yo ex-eventer, big 17.2 horse with an old tendon injury, spavin'd hocks and an unstable left hind fetlock. He has always been a big lumbering type with a mean bronc and the sort to pull like a train then trip ;)

He did a leg in 2008 and although the leg recovered, whilst on box rest he developed hock trouble that did not respond to 2 attempts at Tildren. He also started to loose the ability to lock his knees causing in a rotational fall in 2007 (his second from last event) that nearly did for my old man !

He has been on a low level of bute for almost a year (half to 1 sachet a day).

He turns out from 7am til 2pm but spends his time in his field shelter eating hay.

Last winter he dropped a lot of condition and we up'd his bute for a few weeks and replaced his field companion which seemed to give him a new lease of life. He looks to be in great condition this autumn.

He can no longer jump and he cant school in the menage as he struggles to co-ordinate on the turn. He can canter a little way out hacking but not uphill. He is now down to one ride a week and will be retired him completely from next month.

We always promised that we wouldnt make him suffer a long retirement and hubby would like a new project to event next year (none of us are getting any younger).

I dont feel that, given the decision to retire him, he is suffering as a paddock ornament at the moment. He struggles to chase the cobs but seems content bossing them about and munching hay. However, I feel that he likes going out and about and will miss trundling along the lanes with his old friends.

So heres my dilemma...would you be leaning towards putting him down now whilst the sun is still in the sky rather than subject his old bones to another winter and years of being ridden past ?

or would you try and keep him as a pet for a little longer and see how he fares ?

have you ever put down an old soldier to make room for a younger project ?

I am struggling with the decision and feel in part like we are being selfish to put him down...and equally selfish keeping him alive. We have swung between yes and no for the past month. Help...
 
I look at it this way.
A horse does not know it will be or has been put down.
Therefore keeping a horse with problems as a retired field ornament is for the owners benefit, not the horses.
 
Just interested in a couple of points you mentioned about your horse, the first about having trouble lockin his knees and the second about him being uncoordinated in his movement round corners in the school and also his weight loss. I'd say from your description he has some kind of cervical problem, some inpingement on his vetebrae which is causing these problems. The only reason I say this is because he displays the exact type of symptoms my wobbler horse did and because your horse is so big I am wondering if this is the cause of all his problems.

I feel that maybe an xray on his neck to determine the extent of his problems, it sounds like all the other things wrong with him are secondary.
 
Dear Lord this is a tough one...........

Firstly you would NOT be putting down a heathly horse to make room for a younger project so do not feel guilty on that count.

If you can afford to keep him and he is happy then do but only you can tell, I'm afraid, by his eyes and body posture.

As for the bute, I wouldn't hesitate to give it to him knowing his troubles if it were to help him get around easier in the field.

Good luck and whatever you do he has been absolutely loved and worried about til the end.xx
 
I think given his soundness/stiffness issues and the fact he can struggle to hold weight, he might struggle quite a bit this winter if it is as cold as last winter.

With all you have written I would have him PTS while the weather is still good, but it sounds like a tough decision to make.
 
Very, very tough one. If you can afford to, and he is totally content being a field ornament then I would struggle to PTS. However, if he is at all unhappy and in pain then I wouldn't hesitate to PTS.
 
PaddyMonty said:
I look at it this way.
A horse does not know it will be or has been put down.
Therefore keeping a horse with problems as a retired field ornament is for the owners benefit, not the horses.
Click to expand...

^^^
This. I too may be facing that decision soon (although my old boy has previously defeated vets' expectations on more than one occasion ;-)). I love my horse to bits and even typing this makes me well up BUT I have promised him (silly I know) that I will not let him deteriorate from the proud animal that he is just because I desperately want to keep him with me. I "think" deep down you know....
 
I have an old boy near me. He hobbles round his field and looks dreadful all year, not just in winter. Everyone locally wishes he would be put to sleep but the owner refuses. The RSPCA are often out following complaints but because he is looked after and only old they cant do anything.

Only you can decide for your oldie but I would always prefer to see it done earlier rather than too late.
 
I had to make a similar decision with my much loved boy a few years ago. I put him to sleep this time of year because I didn't want him to struggle through the winter and then have to put him to sleep, becuase he couldn't get up or somthing similar.

Instead, he was PTS on a lovely crisp sunny day, whilst eating his favourite treat. it was still horiffic but I still think better that than he suffered through a winter and ended his life in agony.
 
This is always a difficult desision but I would always chose to do it coming into winter while the horse was still well and happy than wait and be forced to it during winter .
Best wishes what ever you decide
 
I think you should PTS. I had an old advanced horse who eventually developed arthritis in his joints. He was returned to his owner to "retire" but never enjoyed it and within a year his owner decided to have him PTS in the September. At the time I thought she was making too hasty a decision as he was only a little bit stiff and only after he had tried to charge round the field (mind was sharp but body was done). The last time I saw him (he was scheduled to get PTS 2 days later) there was a cross country going on where he was kept and he was so excited and bright that I really thought she was premature. However that evening I visited him in his stable and he was pretty stiff (having hooned around the field watching the XC!) and I said my goodbyes. Looking back on it the owner made the best decision ever for the horse as he didn't have to suffer another winter, there was no getting better for him and rather selfishly my last memory of him is of a happy, bright horse not one who had lost loads of condition and was miserable. The horse owed us nothing and thakfully the owner appreciated that she owed it to her horse to do the right thing by him. Sad times but hopefully you will have as many happy memories to look back on as I did x
 
This is always a horrible decision to have to make.

I always think if you are the one looking after the horse you just 'know' when it is time.

No matter what anyone else would do, they will never be in exactly the same situation and have the same circumstance as you.

Listen to your heart and you will make the right decision.
 
PaddyMonty said:
I look at it this way.
A horse does not know it will be or has been put down.
Therefore keeping a horse with problems as a retired field ornament is for the owners benefit, not the horses.
Click to expand...

I dont agree with that, it is of benefit to a horse to have life (unless in pain obviously). My horse has done a tendon very seriously the point its highly unlikely he'll ever be rideable again. There's no way I'll put him down unless he is in pain and cannot be a field ornament. Otherwise, IMO he has given me so much over the years I owe it to him to give him a nice life out in the field. Just because he's not rideable, doesn't mean I should kill him!

OP, really only you can make this decision. Its pointless asking for peoples opinions on here as we dont know the horse. Only you know how he looks to be feeling within himself. Im a firm believer in them telling you when its time.
 
thankyou for ALL of your replies, they are gratefully recieved (even though a couple made me well up).

This isnt the first horse weve gotten to a ripe old age...we kept a mare long after we should really have said goodbye and when she went we had the regrets of waiting til she could not longer stand having only "seen" the mare who used to toss her head and run to the gate calling for pats.

It was that experience that made us decide to never do that to another horse...and then promptly did it again with a little exracer mare who we knew, deep down, might have serious problems behind her naughtiness.

But in both cases they went on to suffer a life ending problem and we PTS with full vet agreement.

In this case the vet told us last winter that it would be a case of making the decision as he felt the old boy might potter on for years, getting slowly worse and slowly more unable to get to his feet. As he does so little now, he is unlikely to do suffer sudden injuries like the old mare and her young field mate.

When I see him tweak himself and hobble about... or trot up the field 3/10ths lame... I think "yes, its time" and then the next day he streaking about playing with the cobs I think "no, not yet". *sigh* What an awful predicament.
 
This one wouldn't be a tough decision for me. I would not put a horse that previously struggled to hold weight in winter through another one when it also has all the other issues you have mentioned. I'd have him put to sleep in the next couple of weeks. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be cut up about doing it, but I think it's in his own best interests.
 
We put my mums old horse to sleep this time a few years back. He was 23 and had a heart murmer that meant he couldn't be ridden, because he couldn't be ridden he was getting stiff and starting to look old. Struggling to keep weight on ect.
We pts, it was the worst decision to make ever, he trotted up to the knackers truck, neck arched thinking he was going to a show.
Could he have survived a bit longer I don't know, was it the right decision I don't know but we didn't want to see him suffer.
Only you know your horse, only you know if he is happy right now or not. If it was my lovely boy, i'd wait untill he was not enjoying his days, if the light was going in his eyes and he was struggling to move about the field that would be the time.
 
Taking into account the weight loss last winter, the lack of coordination, "When I see him tweak himself and hobble about... or trot up the field 3/10ths lame" then I would be looking at pts at some point before the winter as I would not want to think of an old horse going downhill slowly in the cold and wet. Not a nice decision to be making and only you can make it but I don't think anyone could reasonably say you are doing the wrong thing whichever way you go.
 
Just a little warning. I was told that as soon as you make the decision they suddenly look better than they have for ages & I have always found it true. They haven't really changed it's your mindset that has. The person who warned me had cancelled the deed twice (different horses) & then the next day had to remake the appointment. My own 29yo very arthritic pony trotted down to the Vet the day he came as someone else said upthread - like he was proudly going to a show. I'll never forget how he whinnied to the Vet - this was a pony that ignored anyone not carrying food. I'm sure he was saying that he knew what he was there for & he was ready.
 
I would give him a months lovely holiday and then PTS at the end of Oct, hopefully just before the weather changes.

We're having exactly the same debate with our ancient (30+) mare who has been retired for 10 years and just doesn't fair well during the winters.. we're thinking end of October for her too :0(
 
I struggled getting my cat put down, and in the end I left it too long, he was a bag of bones, and while he still seemed to enjoy sleeping in the sun, and so on, he was unable to put on weight, always hungry, even after eating.

I think that next time i have to make that decision, I will act sooner rather than later.

It is not easy, I still feel guilty about putting the cat down, even though I left it too late, but I think a little too soon, is better than waiting till you cannot delay the decision any longer.
 
We are in the same position. Stopped hunting B last year as he was stumbling badly and came down on his kness twice due to an old annular ligament injury. He is big, fat, sound and is now 20 yo. Had him since he was 3. He has had a year in a field, and we know it is the right thing to do......but it doesn't make it any easier.
 
MagicMelon said:
I dont agree with that, it is of benefit to a horse to have life (unless in pain obviously). My horse has done a tendon very seriously the point its highly unlikely he'll ever be rideable again. There's no way I'll put him down unless he is in pain and cannot be a field ornament. Otherwise, IMO he has given me so much over the years I owe it to him to give him a nice life out in the field. Just because he's not rideable, doesn't mean I should kill him!

OP, really only you can make this decision. Its pointless asking for peoples opinions on here as we dont know the horse. Only you know how he looks to be feeling within himself. Im a firm believer in them telling you when its time.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this, if I had the means I could never put a healthy field sound horse down. I don't count a few creaks and grumbles as being past it, old age happens to us all, it's not something to worry overly about IMHO. Obviously if they horse is in significant pain then it's a different matter :£

Fwiw I don't count 19 as being a ripe old age, more middle age lol, our oldest horse got to 36 healthily (died in field) and currently have a 21 and 26yo still in work :)
 
Stencilface said:
Fwiw I don't count 19 as being a ripe old age, more middle age lol, our oldest horse got to 36 healthily (died in field) and currently have a 21 and 26yo still in work :)
Click to expand...

Oh I agree, the "ripe old age" one I was referring to was 26. That said, 19 for THIS 17.2 medium weight fella who evented most weekends at Int and 2* IS quite an age; middle, ripe, or not ;)

His arent creaks or grumbles.... his are quite clear "ah ***** that hurted" moments. Ive a 20 yo with creaks and grumbles and he's still grouching about on an even keel. Its the one who isnt that worries me here :'(
 
PaddyMonty said:
I look at it this way.
A horse does not know it will be or has been put down.
Therefore keeping a horse with problems as a retired field ornament is for the owners benefit, not the horses.
Click to expand...

This , I really feel for you as i have 2 oldies (22 &23) still in work, but as we have been having harsh winters and as you have said your horse can't cope very well maybe it would be best for him to pts befor your noble friend tells you times up .
Big hugs as very hard .
 
mrussell said:
Oh I agree, the "ripe old age" one I was referring to was 26. That said, 19 for THIS 17.2 medium weight fella who evented most weekends at Int and 2* IS quite an age; middle, ripe, or not ;)

His arent creaks or grumbles.... his are quite clear "ah ***** that hurted" moments. Ive a 20 yo with creaks and grumbles and he's still grouching about on an even keel. Its the one who isnt that worries me here :'(
Click to expand...

I accept that the horses with a harder life tend to age quicker, mine have all had the life of easy Riley! :D

If he's obviously in pain and is miserable then that different, but if you want to leave him nice weather, then IMHO don't leave it too long, seems awful wintery already :(
 
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