Moving a horse

[Lucky788]

More of a what would you do. The weekend before lockdown I purchased a horse with a view to collect the following weekend.
Now lockdown is extended we are discussing paying for livery etc until restrictions are lifted.
A registered horse transporter is still operating and happy to move the horse for me proving social distancing can be adhered to which it can by all parties and it’s a 30 minute journey. (Can’t walk it as part motorway)
It’s not a welfare issue really as the horse can be cared for where it is but at a cost I can’t really afford due to being on furlough. Is it worth speaking to local police to see what they say about how they would class that journey?

 

[Ambers Echo]

You are not breaking any laws by having your horse moved by the horse transporter. The horse transporter is allowed to work as he can't work from home. You don;t need to ask the police. The police have shown themselves very variable their own understanding of the law and so I would not ask. If a police officer mistakenly tells you that is not allowed you will be in a much more awkward position.

 

[Lucky788]

Thank you Ambers - good point re police to and I expect they probably have better things to do than speak to me

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I’ve seen plenty of trailers with ponies in them moving around and in a recent 700 mile in 12 hours journey (don’t ask ) I only saw 3 police cars.

 

[YorksG]

I have seen a few animal trailers, moving sheep, cattle etc so I would think you'll be OK.

 

[Auslander]

Defra has said, via the BHS, that travelling a horse on welfare grounds, or in a veterinary emergency is fine, but that other transport isn't likely to be considered essential and police forces may opt to enforce this.
I've got a livery leaving at the end of this month, which I'm quite worried about, as I can't fill the space yet because most people aren't moving their horses around. I have suggested that she speaks to our local police force to find out whether they are likely to enforce non essential transport of horses, but I don't think she's bothered.

 

[Lucky788]

It’s a tricky one I suppose welfare may come into it if I can’t afford to pay the bills and the horse isn’t fed? (They are lovely people and I know that wouldn’t happen but in the meantime I’m racking up a massive bill) The livery rate is over £500 per month! That’s more than I pay to rent my own field so I’m worried about the money side of it

 

[PurBee]

It’s a tricky one I suppose welfare may come into it if I can’t afford to pay the bills and the horse isn’t fed? (They are lovely people and I know that wouldn’t happen but in the meantime I’m racking up a massive bill) The livery rate is over £500 per month! That’s more than I pay to rent my own field so I’m worried about the money side of it

The horse is owned by you before lockdown, welfare is difficult to maintain financially for you - to provide the welfare the horse needs and your own financial welfare, you have to transport the horse a short distance.
Your other option for financial relief, is to sell the horse which isnt likely to happen as a purchase of a horse isnt ‘essential’ activity.

The animals we care for are all vulnerable living beings. We are allowed to move them if it is best for their care and welfare, which in your financial case, is especially true. You‘re within the remit of the advisories.
You and the transporter can adhere to social distancing advice easily too.

ps when your horse arrives to you, put him out in the sun for a couple of hours, the UV light helps kill bacteria and viruses.

 

[Littlebear]

We moved a load of horses (had 4 lorries) a while ago during lockdown and no problems and saw police on the way. They did have to be moved but it was no issue, one of the owners is a police officer and didn’t see an issue.
Don’t get me wrong it was essential that they moved but we had no problem with being pulled over even with several of us x

 

[Shay]

The Statutory Instrument is really quite vague - and the CPS guidelines (England & Wales only) only slighly better. You are permitted movement to fulifll a legal obligation (s6(2)(h)) and to move house where reasonably necessary (s6(2)(l)) It is quite possible to argue that the movement of a horse you have purchased as you have agreed to move it is to fulfill a legal obligation. You are also moving house, of a form. There is no legal definition of reasonableness - it is all case specific.

And typing this - of course any breach is on the part of the transporter not you. As long as you are not with them they can collect the horse and deliver it to you as travel to work is entirely permitted where that work cannot be done from home. Where the work itself is in fact transport it clearly cannot be done from home - I don't think animal crossing counts!

I would move him.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yep whether YOU could move him is open to interpretation. I'd argue you can on welfare/legal obligation grounds but it's a grey area.

But the horse transporter can go to work and his work is moving your horse. Work is allowed. Not just essential work but any work that can't be done from home and hasn't been specifically banned.

 

[Auslander]

Yep whether YOU could move him is open to interpretation. I'd argue you can on welfare/legal obligation grounds but it's a grey area.

But the horse transporter can go to work and his work is moving your horse. Work is allowed. Not just essential work but any work that can't be done from home and hasn't been specifically banned.

The majority are only taking bookings for emergency vet visits/welfare though - following the advice issued by the government.

It just seems to me like another way in which people are trying to find a way round a situation that isn't to their liking - which is what has got this country in such a godawful mess in the first place.

 

[zaminda]

A dealer locally to me is still shipping horses abroad at the moment with no issues and her new stock mainly come from Ireland. I can't see a problem personally.

 

[Ambers Echo]

But that is not the Governments advice. The advice is only go outside for food, exercise, health reasons, legal obligations or work - but only if you cannot work from home. There is no mention of essential versus non essential work.

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs here or trying to find loopholes. If the Government wanted to shut down non essential work then it is entirely free to do so. But for now, it is clear that horse transporters can work. And many are as the OP has discovered.

 

[Auslander]

But that is not the Governments advice. .

Related to transporting horses - yes it is! DEFRA has said perfectly clearly that horses should only be transported for veterinary or welfare reasons. I didn't see this as a post thread whether transporters can or can't work - the OP asked if she could/should move her horse. Technically, she shouldn't, and nor should the transporter agree to take on a non-essential trip. I can see both sides though - and sh does need a solution.
Personally if I'd sold a horse, and it couldn't leave for the forseeable, I'd happily keep it and turn it away at cost- as it's not the buyers fault. Same way that if I decided to lock down my yard and not allow owners to visit, I wouldn't charge extra for full livery, as it wouldn't be the owners choice

 

[Ambers Echo]

Can you point me to a link please because when I contated DEFRA about moving my horse in lockdown they were fine with it. Not for me to move him but for a transporter to do it. I could have argued it on welfare grounds anyway as he was going to be imminently homeless, but I did not need to as the advice was the reansporter could continue working without restrictions. And I can't see any guidance that says a horse transporter can only move horses on 'emergency or welfare' grounds. But things change rapidly so happy to be corrected.

 

[Auslander]

Can you point me to a link please because when I contated DEFRA about moving my horse in lockdown they were fine with it. Not for me to move him but for a transporter to do it. I could have argued it on welfare grounds anyway as he was going to be imminently homeless, but I did not need to as the advice was the reansporter could continue working without restrictions. And I can't see any guidance that says a horse transporter can only move horses on 'emergency or welfare' grounds. But things change rapidly so happy to be corrected.

The BHS and other organisations have all published this advice from DEFRA, and the vast majority of licensed transporters have statements on their website/facebook pages that say they are following DEFRA advice and only transporting vet emergencies welfare cases.

 

[Leo Walker]

A couple of the transporters near me are still working and are advertising that they have checked and can legally move horses, they specifically mentioned yard moves. They didn't say anything about it having to be a welfare issue. So either they are wrong or the advice being given out is varying.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Actually I find the lack of clarity really frustrating. People either can or can't work. If they can and need therefore to keep staff on and overheads going - and won't be getting the furlough pay etc - then they should be able to make a reasonable living and not feel forced to work with one hand tied behind their back - obviously ensuring they are keeping to social distancing rules which apply regardless. But there are multiple layers of 'guidance'. There is the legislation which is very clear. That does not even restrict exercise to once a day or an hour or whatever. Then there are the Government guidelines which are fairly clear, a bit more restrictive than the law but still allow work. Eg horse tranporters. I am following the guidelines not just the law. Then 1001 other people interpreting that to mean one thing or another. So my farrier and vet-physio are both still working routinely but my EDT isn't. . None of those professionals need to come into contact with anyone on the yard. Some RI's are still teaching 1:1 on private yards, some aren't. Some dog walkers are still walking dogs, some aren't. Same for gardeners, house painters etc etc etc.

I'm not trying to find loopholes but as another poster put it: I am following the rules, I don't need to make up more rules to follow.

 

[Auslander]

Interesting, bearing in mind the letter from the APHA, which was sent to all licensed transporters on the 27th March, saying

"In line with the Government advice, APHA strongly advises against the transport of all equines unless they are being transported for emergency veterinary treatment or where the welfare of the animal would be compromised without transport".

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

One of my very local and very well thought of transporters is still working, BUT she insists on having a letter sent over from the authorising vet. No letter, no transport. That's the current regs under defra.
If the vet has decided it's a medical or welfare issue, then they sign off that particular horse to travel. Its name and passport number will be on the letter.

There are other less reputable transport providers out there who are not doing this, but then some of those dont appear to follow transport regs anyway.....

 

[Lucky788]

Thanks for everyone’s input.
I’ll see if my vet would consider doing a letter. I don’t want put anyone in harms way.

unfortunately the owner isn’t prepared to keep paying livery which I understand and the livery yard don’t have the options to turn out due to limited grazing so I’m a bit stuck and worrying how I’ll afford it

 

[Lilly-Mayspookatbags]

unfortunately the owner isn’t prepared to keep paying livery which I understand and the livery yard don’t have the options to turn out due to limited grazing so I’m a bit stuck and worrying how I’ll afford it

I would just move the horse, it becomes a welfare issue when you can no longer look after the horse!

Also, the police are not pulling everyone and anyone over especially horse boxes and livestock trailers, due to the fact they are mostly going to be travelling live animals.

 

[dixie]

I’m sure I read somewhere, thought it was Defra, that you could move your horse to a different livery yard.

 

[SEL]

The horse transporter I used for a vet visit just before lockdown have said they've spoken to DEFRA & can work. They are using their own headcollars and leadropes for handling. Nothing about emergency work only.

 

[SO1]

I think that comes under a welfare issue. You need to move the horse as you cannot afford the livery fees. If you can't pay the livery the yard owner may stop looking after the horse properly or refuse to do it at all, are they allowed to evict people from yards at the moment for non payment? You maybe unable to pay vets fees or farrier fees due to livery fees & that would be detrimental to it's welfare.

Does the yard offer a DIY options as it is only 30 minutes away would that work?