Moving shoulders (groundwork)

Ooos I pressed send too early and now I can't edit!

I am having some issues with my cobs shoulders, they seem to be stuck. I have been working through the cobs can book and some straightness training so we seemed to have mastered the flexion, inside and outside as he is responsive in transitions now but for some reason when I ask him to move around on he cross very nicely behind but he and sort of spins on his fronts rather than moving over with his inside. I think the issue is with shoulder balance (this also translates into ridden work) and he is very on the forehand, he is just very unwilling to move his shoulders and cross his front legs whilst maintaining the inside bend. I've tried moving him forward so he doesn't get stuck but then he just pushes in on his inside shoulder (on both sides)and if I try and stop him from pushing we either end up going faster, he pushes more (I am definitely not pushing back because I know this wont help) or if I try to stop him from going faster or more towards me, we end up going backwards which is his evasion to everything! It is like his front inside leg is glued to the ground! I am not riding at the moment due to a number of reasons but have been doing a mix of different things in hand and now we are stuck! Any advice would be great, or if I have not explained anything then happy to clarify, I should try and get a video really but its just so dark.
 
Sorry, you can sit in the nude if you like but it's far too cold here!:) You're on your own!


Have you tried actually pushing your thumb into his shoulder to unstick it - not something you can do from on top but easily done from the ground to get the idea across.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
Sorry, you can sit in the nude if you like but it's far too cold here!:) You're on your own!


Have you tried actually pushing your thumb into his shoulder to unstick it - not something you can do from on top but easily done from the ground to get the idea across.
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Haha oh dear I am really not doing very well today, brain has officially gone into festive mode!

I have pretty much shoved him over and he will move but wasn't sure if that was the best approach haha! I feel like then he just goes even more on the forehand rather than lifting his shoulders up!
 
Are you on the Cobs Can Facebook group? If you ask on there Omar will often reply himself.

I would try applying a pointy, clear aid and making sure you are very clear with the release and reward for the teeniest tiniest flinch of a movement in the right direction. And make sure you pile on the praise about what a clever, special boy he is if he gives you anything at all. 😂 These cobs are divas at heart...
 
emfen1305 said:
Haha oh dear I am really not doing very well today, brain has officially gone into festive mode!

I have pretty much shoved him over and he will move but wasn't sure if that was the best approach haha! I feel like then he just goes even more on the forehand rather than lifting his shoulders up!
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I think you just have to take small steps with cobs as with other horses, so get his shoulder moving across first then work on getting him off his forehand while doing it. He has to understand what you want first and then perfect the movement later. Cobs can be deceptive, they give the impression that they know exactly what you want and do it easily but in reality, ime, they don't have a panic attack if they don't understand or 'can't do it' (like some others, I could mention;)) but they will do nothing, rather than risk getting it wrong. This makes them appear stubborn when in reality they are just as confused as their twirling, whirling slimmer counterparts.
 
I have messaged Omar so hoping for a reply but it sounds like my instincts to do a nice pointy shove are on the right lines then, I was just worried at how on even more on the forehand he was going but I suppose that moving is better than nothing. he's quite a clever little cob, he's mastered quite a few little tricks and movements (probably helps that he is very food orientated and will do anything for a fibre nugget) but yes agree on the diva/stand there staring front, The other day he gave me everything in his repertoire and then repeated even more extravagantly and still didn't received a treat (I just wanted him to stand still) so he stamped his foot and squealed at me.

I could look to do an inhand lesson LB but wanted to try and crack the basics first but something to look into for the new year!
 
Will he move back from a touch on the chest? I found this was the simplest way to teach my cob to yield to pressure, then went to moving hind quarters then shoulder. Also like PF said rewarding the slightest shift in weight sideways even if he doesn't actually take a step.
 
GoldenWillow said:
Will he move back from a touch on the chest? I found this was the simplest way to teach my cob to yield to pressure, then went to moving hind quarters then shoulder. Also like PF said rewarding the slightest shift in weight sideways even if he doesn't actually take a step.
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Yes and now I can just move towards him and say back without needing to touch him but that did take some time, perhaps I am being impatient as it isn't coming as easy as other stuff - i think a voice command might help too as he's very responsive to the voice, I only have to say good boy in a totally unrelated setting (picking hooves up for example) and his ears prick for the treat haha! I will update with progress!
 
Ok so as expected I just wasn't applying as much pressure nor was I being consistent or direct enough so thanks to everyone who just said be more obvious and reward for little achievements. We did a little practice on our walk last night in teaching him to move away from the push (jab!) rather than into it. I had been having issues with him trying to move the same way as his head was bending (so if I asked for a left bend he would try and also bring his shoulders left and pull his head back to the right (this is his weaker rein) so I was quite consistent with not letting him do that and making sure the the shoulders stayed away and then tonight I took him into the arena and it was like a lightbulb and he was able to move forward and round on a small circle and not fall in or get his legs stuck, I even managed a much lighter aid by the end so clearly I just wasn't quite asking properly. He makes me smile so much, he is such a smart little cob and such a try hard! Just need to now try and stop him rushing through the movements and work on managing each step.

On the plus side I let him have a little trot and canter round on a very long line and he looks much straighter and more forward so I am hoping we are going to make good progress over the winter! If anyone else has any other good ground work exercises or videos they have found useful please do share and I will do the same!
 
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