Moving up to Novice....

madhector

madhector

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....do you wait till all 3 phases are consistently good? Or do you make do? J is entered in a couple more PNs but have to say the XC is feeling very easy at the moment. The dressage is still a bit random as to whether or not we will do a good test, SJing is getting better and better and he jumped a fairly fluent round last Sunday having only one down. Thing is he finds the XC much easier than anything else and I worry about him getting cocky if I don't keep questioning him. He is that sort of horse where if it is easy then he can turn into a complete a**e! So just got me thinking when I should move him up to Novices? Obviously I would need to take him out SJing over some bigger tracks to see how he goes, and want to take him XC schooling somewhere with a decent jump before the water as had an issue with that at Little Downham. Think once he has done it once he will be fine.

So, opinions? Also wheres a good first Novice around Snuffolk? (I'm happy to travel 2/3 hours as this is quite normal!) Preferably somewhere with a nice water?


Thanks
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I didn't wait until all 3 were consistently good because I'd still be pootling around PN now as our dressage is dreadful.

But it is quite a big step up I think, and he is still green - at the moment he can get himself out of trouble if he has a wobble which will be harder at Novice level (though not impossible as he doesn't lack ability).

I went out and jumped lots of BSJA 1.05 classes and a 1.10 open before I moved up as SJ was our weak link too.
 
i want them to be totally fluent and happy on the xc, nothing at PN bothering them in the slightest, and they have to prove to me that they're happy to tackle a 1.10-1.15 sj track, and can keep a rhythm and jump everything the same... the parallels at nov are too big unless they're happily going fwd to their fences.
i like the dressage to be sorted but, as i've proven this season, i'll move them up before it is, because sometimes they need bigger fences on the xc.
 
I would move up. Have to admit that my dressage has never caught up with my jumping! Just as you say jump some decent SJ tracks as prep.
 
Snap with the dressage
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Having walked round the Novice course at Buckminster the only place I thought might cause him problems was the water, and he just needs to go schooling somewhere and practise I think.

The SJing could be a disaster, but then it could be great! But that is the case whatever the hieght
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I would definatly need to take him and jump some more BSJA though
 
The main problem with his SJing was since he settled and stopped the rushing he started hanging in the air and didn't really go forwards, I have now got used to the fact he does this and started riding him appropriately and he has really improved, hopefully the next two outings will test it.

I definitely wouldn't move him up or even jump bigger SJing tracks until this problem is sorted (I am hoping we have cracked it as he was so much better at buckminster, but will see how he is on Sunday at Gt W)
 
I did 5 PNs on Moon before moving up. She had done 4 intros the end of the season before but she didnt do any unaff events so they were her baby education.

She will always play catch up in the dressage but she has always found the jumping easy. She wasnt so natural xc as it sounds like Jerry is. I think she's got the hang of it now
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That would be good, thanks
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We might be having a bad dad in which case ignore us! Wish I had a video of the SJing on sunday, as it wasnt perfect but it was better. Think it showed his average quite well, rather than really bad, or flukeishy good if you know what I mean.
 
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I did 5 PNs on Moon before moving up. She had done 4 intros the end of the season before but she didnt do any unaff events so they were her baby education.

She will always play catch up in the dressage but she has always found the jumping easy. She wasnt so natural xc as it sounds like Jerry is. I think she's got the hang of it now
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I agree - think she has definatly got the hang of it now!
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J didnt do any Intros, did 3 unaffiliated ODEs though and then went straight in at PN, Little Downham was a disaster thanks to me
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But the other 2 PNs he has gone clear XC and made it feel very easy.
 
oh, is he totally happy about jumping a decent step into water? with a little log on the edge maybe? there was no alternative to that at Buckminster.
it depends so much on the horse... i did one Intro on James (he did 3 or 4 Intros last season), then 4 PN, then went N, but only because he'd suddenly really gotten his bottle about water jumps... if he hadn't, i'd have kept him at PN for longer. he was going double clear too, which helped my confidence!
 
Thats my only concern tbh, hence I would need to take him somewhere and practise. He crawled in over the little step with the pole on top, never once said no but did it as his pace! I think once he has done it once he will be fine, but I want to get him out somewhere and get him confident.
 
I think I was just "sensible"! If you look at my record, I did half a season Intro, half a season pre novice, then came out the following year and did another half season pre novice then went to Novice. He was more than ready to upgrade jumping wise because he was awesome but his dressage was his biggest let down
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That's the only thing that stopped me going Intermediate, I didn't see the point in spending all that money knowing i'd never be in with a chance of a minor placing!!

I say, if he makes it feel easy, you can trust him to do all the technical fences, have done a stiff Pre novice before hand, then GO FOR IT
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Agreed that the SJ at novice, although only going up 10cms, feels distinctly bigger! You are also likely to get triples in most courses, usually with a big spread in - so horses really can't be backing off, unless very scopey (mine isn't, but he is bold) - I moved up after a whole season at pre novice, partly because I was actually too young at that point to compete at N unless it was JRN. Our SJ has never been great, but was always very bold at PN - I got stage fright in my first novice, and we had a cr*ppy round, but when I rode forwards on the next go, it went a lot better. I wouldn't want to move up to N unless the SJ at PN was very smooth, bold and the canter sufficiently adjustable.

I wouldn't worry about the dressage, it's not going to knock the horses confidence if they get a bad mark
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would only be concerned if the horse was intended for sale in the near future.

XC would only move up if horse was bold over all questions presented at pre novice, was jumping into water over small log-drops easily, happy tackling bounces, coffins, 'spooky' ditches and balanced jumping downhill. I think I mainly moved up to N as horse was so over-confident at PN that it was starting to get dangerous
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I think your confidence seems to say it all - he can't be that far off!!
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I wouldn't bother about the dressage too much - it's not like you are going to put him off or anything because he's not up to that level.

As for SJ, if you get him jumping round some 1.05 BSJA tracks I think you'll be fine.
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Tbh I thought Buckminster was a very straight forward Nov, but have walked a few more which are alot more testing!!! G is prob at a similar stage as J, although our flatwork is prob stronger and our Sjing not so!! I am constantly told the step up from PN to Nov is the biggest, so am holding off a bit before we make the step up, I would prefer him to get cocky at PN and feel uber confident than step up to Nov and him scare himself. I am also one who would want to be going direct routes at everything straight out, as otherwise I dont see the point in making the step up....

I would run at the next couple and go from there... if our SJing pans out when i hope it will, we will be going Nov in Sept or Oct, but I am in no hurry, as I dont want to feel out of my (and his depth)! Am aiming for Oasby I think.....
 
have you asked your trainers opinion??? as mines says to be ready for novice sj, you need to jump at least once a week competively at correct height or atleast school well at height or above..... (as you state sj is your weakest phase)
As there is a huge difference at jumping 1.05 to 1.10m, as you just can bumble around at Intro and PN and after tonite experience at trainers, where he scared the living pants off me... by making me jump a novice track... i totally see he's point of view.
Also when walking PN are you looking at N fences going cor that's lovely, i want to jump that instead of PN fence?
My question to you would be why do you want to push up??? Is it to win?, collect points? or just say your jumping novice?.
IMO the first two point are valid, point 3 is just vain.... and not keeping a happy horse interest at heart.................
 
I did walk the course kind of wishing we were jumping the Novice course
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Showjumping wise I think your right, he really needs to get out and jump bigger tracks consistantly first.

I want to move up as I want to keep challanging both of us, I feel now we are both a little cocky XC want to feel like we are being tested all the time. Not worried about winning, points would be nice of course, but the main reason is to feel like we are going somewhere. I dont want to stay at PN because we will be more likely to win/do well etc when we could be jumping Novice and not doing so well but testing ourselves if that makes sense.

edited to add, my trainer seemed to think we should be doing Novices by the end of the season, but depended alot on the showjumping, this was however when our showjumping was alot worse
 
sounds as tho you ready, once sorted more sj tracks. Would you consider doing PNP first??? as this is route i'm thinking about
I only ask q why novice? i wanted to see you answer
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somes times on here I have to ask a direct q??? (just my make up) and i think your relpy says your defo ready for a move UP
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Cos i have a thing about confidence, as to me it's the most value thing when riding my horses ................. that's all

good luck on what you decide
 
Keep in mind that the other issue with the sj, especially with most events as they are arranged now, is not just having rails, it's how the horse feels about its jumping effort and how that effort feeds into x-c confidence and performance. If the horse is jumping the sj, even cleanly, thinking "holy c**p, look how far away that back rail is" then it very well might be going off x-c already feeling a bit demoralised and backed off. Unless you can ride consistently in a rhythm and forward across the oxers, especially for a green horse, you're not setting the horse up for the best possible x-c effort, regardless of what the scoreboard says.

A horse that's over jumping/tense/struggling in the sj - even if it's leaving the rails up - is not necessarily ready to move up.

There is also the common phenomena of it not being the first competition at a new level where the holes show up. Often the rider rides just to get around and the horse doesn't know what's coming but in later efforts, where the horse knows what might be coming around the corner and the rider has expectations, any weaknesses can come to the fore again. And it's much harder to solve problems than avoid them!

(Not implying there are any holes in the OP's system or her horse, just a general comment that scores don't always truly reflect competence and confidence on the horse's part. Generally if the rider has any niggling doubts about any part of the jumping there needs to be a little more testing homework before the step up.)
 
I think you should be bold into the water, if he is slowing down and thinking about PN water jumps I would do lots of schooling and only upgrade when they are confident and happy jumping in.

The SJ as others have said can be practiced BSJA.
 
My horse was never the best about water but he has got better with time and is very confident about it now. As for Sjing it comes up thick and fast at novice. I did a PN this year to give the horse some confidence and PN Sjing is easy. There is tonnes of space hardly any horrible lines and no big doubles or triples. My horse struggles with the sjing in regards to his canter not the height as it really needs to be more changeable whereas at PN you can get away with it being just a bold medium canter.

Finally I would also say its the events - We have some courses that are much tougher xc than most others and a good run round those will mean you are ready to upgrade. Find out which the really tough PN are and find out how the other events you have done rate. I was unprepared for the step up to novice and cocked the first one up as had not done enough prep as PN was easy. Next time out I was far more prepared and it was easy.
 
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