Mr Mackenzie....yet more suprises

Kenzo

Kenzo

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Right, he's got a passport (HPA one) no other papers (although I was told he'd be papered but then when I went to pay for him, the guy told me he didn't have papers and said he didn't say that....anyway back to the subject, says on his passport foaled, colt, bay, foaled 2004 (no specific date) but was told that his birth date was 11th June, I bought him as a 2yr old in May 2007 and he was to turn 3 that next month in June.

with me so far?

Ok, so had my horse dentist yesterday, routine check (he's came once back end of 2007 and again summer last year) and he required a little rasp and we got talking as you do, how he doing yada yada and told him he' fine bla bla apart for the being false rig and so forth and all that business and going through more saddles than hot dinners etc etc

and he said, ''how old did you say this horse was?'', I looked at him and said WHY? he supposed of turned 5 this June.

No he isnt, he's only 4, I said but what? are you sure (ok never ask a horse dentist if they are sure about a horses age, of course their bloody sure!)

He said at the most he could possibly be 4 and half but he said you'd class this horse as a 4yr old this year and 5 next January, now I know they do this for TB's (race horses) but he said even so this horse is still has his baby teeth coming through etc

Asked me where I got him, told him, he said say no more and shook his head. I explained that he was poor when I got him and yes I have always maintained that he was immature for his age. Anyway he then went on to say it probably explains a lot of things, he could of been cut too early and therefore not finished developing inside, he said that will be why the tissue is left over from the castration etc and the fact that he's certainly grown into himself this year, he was 15h when I got him, he's now 16.1 and well, constantly changing shape and now doubt will mature bigger than I thought.

So can someone make some sense of this please because I'm confused, the dentist didn't dispute his age last year or the year before (however we didn't discuss it last time he just did his routine check and he didn't actually need anything doing) but he lives in the same village and has seen me riding him.

Now I'm worried, this could mean that he was backed too early (nothing I can do about that now) and ok so I've not done a lot with him anyway just bits on and off but which I thought was sufficient but actually now it will of been perhaps too much, don't get me wrong he's fine physically and fine mentally but thought of it just makes me feel so annoyed as I don't know what to think, the photo I have of him as a foal doesn't seem look like a late foal and is certainly him but then there is no date on the photo (which sometimes it states on the back).

All the time I had the saddle fitters, vet, back person for routine stuff, he could potentially be younger than what I was telling them.
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yes they have said he's babyish but never disupted his age, but then why should they when I have told them, just like wha I was told.
 
I'm a little surprised that a dentist would have missed that he was 3 and not 4 when he last saw him tbh... or 2 the previous year.
 
Aw
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what a shock to find that out. The dentist probably didn't think to mention his age the first 2 times, he might have just thought you backed them young.

I'm sure no damage has been done, as you say you've taken it easy with him and he's growing into himself gradually.

What a shame about the gelding fiasco, I would imagine your dentist is right, he probably was gelded too early. At least he's in good hands now!
 
I know that is what I thought and again after thinking more about it last night I'm more confused, I guess it can't of been discussed last time but the first time came out to him, which was one of the reasons... to confirm his age because I'm one of these that likes to double check things and I aske him how old he was before I told him, and he got it right.

I should of mentioned this to him at the time I know but I didnt want to sound stupid I guess, as he may of said well its hard to tell exact age when there 2...or something like that, I duno just guess he's the dentist he should know
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I'm in a similar situation as this. My horse's passport is very vague about when she was born but says 2001, which should mean she is now 8. However, after I brought her, whenever I had vets, instructors, saddler, friends etc look at her they all said she was younger. Turns out she's estimated to be 2 years younger than stated. Which means that I brought her thinking she was 6, when in fact she had only just turned 4! So in the beginning I didn't realise this and did funrides, show jumping etc with her. I then realised she was only 4 and felt terrible for doing things. I didn't do much but still.
Unfortunatly because she was started to early before I got her she does have damage to her legs and she was getting very sour/bored in the school. So have done other things to try and help this and she's a lot better now.
Anyway that's my story
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So I know how you feel but I think aslong as you take into account now the difference and continue correctly in a way that fits this you should be fine. You can't change the past so just don't take it to heavy now. Atleast that's what I've done.
 
hmm well the more i think about everything, the more it expains things and everyone who knows him on the yard also say well it makes sense, the thing is he did point out what he was explaining so it was there for me to see in black and white, so its not like I don't agree with him but at the same time I can't understand why the person who bred him, told me he was this and that, and was the person who said he'd back him for me as part of the price, again this didnt happen which I wasnt bothered about at the time, just feel like I've been lied to through the expense of my horse.
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everyone says I had a my pants pulled down (thats the expression used) but there was no need to because I liked him anyway, just feel a bit gutted. But then again I can't disupute it because I have no proof, my dad says there is no point worrying about it, what done is done and so long has he's ok now, but for all I know he may of been backed when before he turned 3! so you can see how annoyed I am about the whole thing.
 
Amazing how inaccurate a passport can be isn't it!!!!
A lady at our old yard bought her daughter a horse the year before last. The horse was sold as a 12yr old, and as it was only a happy hacker they never got her vetted. When the dentist came to do her teeth, he said she was in her early twenties. Upon tracing her breeder they found he wasnt wrong at all, as she was in fact 21!!!!
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everyone says I had a my pants pulled down (thats the expression used)

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Pfft they won't be saying that when he's 22 and should be 24
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you get 2 years for free! Sellers lie about the age to get more money but as you say you like him and got what you feel is a good deal maybe you would have asked for the price to come down if you had known you would want to wait at least a year to start him?

We had it happen to a Shire at our yard, he was sold as a 4 year old back and pulling a carriage. Vet came out to do his teeth 6 months later, I mention him being a bit wild to ride for a shire and the vet looked at me like I was stupid. He then went on to say the horse was roughly 2 and a half and this was a well known scam to sell 2 year olds as 4 years old (their teeth are so similar many vets can't tell the difference) with him it was tough to tell, he was very under condition when he arrived but we assumed it was neglect, chances are it was a bit of both. He's a healthy young man now, the girl didn't stop riding just took it very easy for a year or so.
 
The thing is which I fail to get my head round is, if you have breed horses, have foals, have your own reg. stallion etc etc then why not put the exact date on the passport, or at least if your not sure of the exact day of the month, surely you can just use a random day of the month but at least your right about the month and year.

Surely you make a note of when they are born specially for passport and registration purposes anyway.

Etd....and weaning and worming all that business too!
 
I wouldn't fret too much....in the days before passports a friend of mine bought a 4yo cob mare from a guy he knew who was a novice rider and had decided that he had bitten off more than he could chew.
My friend decided the mare was just a bit babyish and hunted her quietly and used her from time to time in his riding school.
When the vet came to look at the RS for its licence he inspected the mare and announced that she was rising three and on no account should be used in the school! My friend was understandably horrified, but after turning the mare away for a while his YM continued her education and she turned out to be a good hunter and useful school horse. That was 23 years ago, and he has only just retired her. She hunted way past the age of 20...
 
My daughter's pony's passport says he's 23, but the ETD said he's more like 27, possibly older.


Passports it would seem, mean jack all.
 
Yeah I know, can't turn back time so just focus on here and now, the really weird thing is, the young filly that is on our yard (latest livery, been on the yard approx 3 weeks now) I guess was about 2, anyway got talking to the guy who owns her the other day, she been bred to race and is only at our yard till she goes back into training, but he told me she'd been broken in a few months back, I know they race them at 2 but just looking at her and thinking that she'd been broken in and been ridden about from looking at her made me cringe ......then I get told this about my lad yesterday!
 
Yes I think that would be good idea but then again we once had a vet many years ago (going back to when I was about 12!) to a Welshy cob that needed his teeth doing (the days when you just got your vet to rasp them) well we asked him how old he was (as a bit of a test) as we had his papers and full history and contact with every past owner (nothing dodgy about his paperwork) and he said he's about 12, well the pony was 20 at that time! as my parents bought him when he was 18!
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but I think at this age a vet should be able to tell.
 
My grey was bought for our then riding school, when I tried him with my groom 4.5 yrs ago he was the perfect gent and sane and sensible 8 yr old so we bought him after watching through the long video we took of him. He stood on the arena whilst we chatted for ages with a young girl on his back without flinching at all.

Got delivered to my yard and hardly blinked, next day even my hubby a farmer couldnt hold him! He was a nutter for the first year, rearing and being a sod.

Turns out I asked my denist who is also a vet to age him this year and he said typical 8 year old, bit silly and hasnt yet grown up! I was in shock as his passport from Denmark states he was 8 when I bought him. Since learnt Denmark is known for exporting horses too young, xrays of dif horse and a whole gamit of other stuff.

I had expected far too much of him at far too young an age and felt awful, I believe the person who sold him to me was very aware as unkown to me back then he bounced back to her 3 times before I bought him. Where was her soul selling him to a disabled rider and for use in a riding school! Now I know more horsey people on the mainland she is well known for her dodgey dealings and I know he was doped, he must have been and I really dislike the woman for decieving us so badly.

Anyway I have kept him for all this time and loved him dearly but now he is up for sale as my illness has worsened and he really deserves a more active home, heartbreaking sale but it has to be done for his wellbeing.

I am very angry at people who knowingly sell animals that are too young for the use they are bought for, just bloody dangerous!
 
Yeah its all very wishy washy, the guy that I bought him from said he bred him and was by xxx stallion who he owns and out off xxx mare that they used to own, why breed and sell something for £2500 and not paper it, plus he looks nothing like his sire and I've seen his half brother (who i could of bought as hew as a year older (which you could clearly see) and he looked like his sire, no mistake there but they guy also imported them from ....well I duno but loads of German horses, maybe Denmark, he did say at the time but i can't remember now, so yo never know he could of picked him up cheep and then sold me to me for profit....who knows
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thing is he nice looking horse and just wish I really knew who his sire was for sure, for all i know it could be the truth, I just have no way of knowing and well don't want to go asking again cos it won't get me anywhere, already suggested a blood test so I could register him with SHS and they didnt come back to me and ignored my emails so just couldnt be bothered it was obvious they didnt want to help me out.
 
best try the vet, im sure in this day an age they will be pretty good at that they will go over it in detail at uni (i did and i only have an equine science degree!!!!!) might make u feel a bit better and put your mind at rest
 
In regards to the paper issue, I have a branded BWB bay in sig I bought her knowing she was without her papers, just passport with 1997 as dob and an old owner I cannot get hold of, dealer did not swindle me in anyway I was told she had no papers for her. It seems so odd a horse that was branded (they dont brand every horse in studbook, certain criteria has to be met) but papers didnt follow with her when she was sold on over time.

Anna passed a 5 stage vetting and is a dream, jumps 1m 50 at home (my old groom has demonstrated this not that I use her for any more than flatwork and happyhacking now). I have triesd to no avail to find papers for her, so my dreams of breeding from her later are a little hindered but I did know it when I bought her so I cant be too disappointed about it.
 
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In regards to the paper issue, I have a branded BWB bay in sig I bought her knowing she was without her papers, just passport with 1997 as dob and an old owner I cannot get hold of, dealer did not swindle me in anyway I was told she had no papers for her. It seems so odd a horse that was branded (they dont brand every horse in studbook, certain criteria has to be met) but papers didnt follow with her when she was sold on over time.


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Have you considered that the horse may have neem stolen along the way? If she is branded she should have a number under her brand to indentify her in the stud book, my Bavarian WB was branded with the number 627. Not really sure the point of branding if they are not numbered
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He's saying 4 1/2 as opposed to 5 by the fact he is hanging nto baby teeth? Seems a little odd really, they can be changing teeth til 6, he might just be a bit slow. Mine is, he is 5 (for certain) and still hanging onto a couple of front baby teeth and a molar cap. Dentist just says, yes, unusual but some just do lose them late

Might be less of a mystery than it appears!
 
I think unless you mention age to horsey professionals, they just assume. My new farrier asked me how much work I did with my horse (he's barefoot) after he had trimmed him a couple of times. I said, he's 2 - he doesn't do any work!! To be fair my horse will eventually be massive and so I suppose he looks average-sized at the moment.
A big shock for you though. The people you bought him from sound rather odd.
 
To be fair anakin...teeth are a dentists area of expertise unlike a farrier who will be concentrating a little more on their hooves...lol
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If I read correctly, this dentist was asked to confirm the horses age in 2007
 
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