Mr President.......R Davison

[louisewarner]

Just read H&H Sunshine Tour Dressage report and cannot believe this rider's comments about this beautiful horse who has done so well with Steph Croxford........
"Judges will then start appreciating what he does and not be put off by how he looks"..........

Maybe this guy should have a look at himself. Mr P is a stunning horse, full of character.......yes, he is more of a gelderlander type than a sleek KWPN megastar, but the horse delivered for RD (not a spectacular improvement on Steph scores and she IS an amateur) and frankly he should show some humility........apparently, I understand from a friend who was there spectating that he was overheard arguing with the judge about his scores and suggesting the judge didnt like the "type" of horse Mr P is?

Quite unpleasant of such a prominent BD international rider, who frankly is very wooden and makes it all look such hard work..........IMHO

 

[SJFAN]

I think you are being harsh on Richard (haven't got my copy yet so haven't read the report). I would guess that his comments are about the typical prejudice displayed by judges rather than himself being derogatory about the horse. In a recent issue he wrote how pleased he was with the horse.

 

[Tempi]

i really wouldnt believe all you read - Richard has always been nothing but praiseworthy of Steph and Mr President. As her trainer and mentor i really dont think hes going to go about making derogatory comments about her horse, do you?

I also dont know how on earth you can say Richard is a'wooden' rider. I always think he looks very good on a horse, and hes certainly getting a good tune from Mr President out there, considering he'd only ridden him a handful of times before going out there.

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Dont think Richard is being derogatory about the horse, think the point he is trying to get across is that judges should judge tests on the quality of the work the horse and rider are producing and not just stunning flashy looks.

Mr P is not a typical looking dressage horse but that does not mean he cannot perform the movements correctly and with expression.

 

[Judie]

I've just read the report and think Richard was trying to say how well Mr P goes and judges should look at that and not get distracted by the fact he isn't your 'typical' dressage type, which he isn't, which is why Steph has done such a fab job and Richard has been her biggest supporter, and to be honest if he didn't have 100% faith in Mr P, there is no way a pro like himself would get on board and go international on him.

Judges abroad are more likely to listen to Richard than they are to Steph, so I for one am very happy Richard is doing this and making a stand for non WB/KWPN types because it would be nice to have more Mr P's and Stephs out there.

 

[Santa_Claus]

[ QUOTE ]
I've just read the report and think Richard was trying to say how well Mr P goes and judges should look at that and not get distracted by the fact he isn't your 'typical' dressage type, which he isn't, which is why Steph has done such a fab job and Richard has been her biggest supporter, and to be honest if he didn't have 100% faith in Mr P, there is no way a pro like himself would get on board and go international on him.

Judges abroad are more likely to listen to Richard than they are to Steph, so I for one am very happy Richard is doing this and making a stand for non WB/KWPN types because it would be nice to have more Mr P's and Stephs out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having read the report I can only echo what you say. I think Richard was very pleased with his performances especially in the Kur but it frustrates him that judges don't look past what he is sometimes. in the UK we are lucky in a way as judges are used to seeing everything from your hairy highland to your cob to your shires (even at GP level!!) and so the majority are more willing to look straight at what is being produced not what is doing it.

Internationally though judges from countries such as Holland, Germany and France to name a few predominantly only see warmbloods that show flashy movement and a particular way of going. For this reason when they see something that looks different in both conformation and movement like Mr President they may see it as incorrect when infact that is not the case.

This is why i believe richard states he wants to see Mr P do more internationally so that more judges can see that a 'non comforming' horse can perform just as well as your sterotypical warmblood

 

[Alibear]

Agree entirly it also highlights a new argument that infact our British judges are now the best as they judge whats infront of them and the acutal movement and paces of the horse not the type. Which is exactly how it should be.

Pat on the back for our judges I think.

 

[Partoow]

Having sat in and written for a judge judging mrP at GranPrix i can see both points of view. You all love his expression and his characture shines through, BUT for the GrandPrix he needs to work more over his back and lower the croup which he does not do consistently. I do think the judges are hard on him and in some respects Richard is right to take on the judges and question the convention but when we look at clasical principles then at GranPrix Mr P does not fulfill them to the same extent and therefore he get's and 7's where as those more equipt do do this sport at this level get the 8's and that difference with 3 judges makes all the difference. think of it a bit like a F1 racing car and a Porsche sports car , both are gorgeous both are cars but one is totally for the job the other is abit more of an all rounder.
Richard by the way is a good bloke and uses hie 'voice ' to further our sport. He can stick his neck out where others would get their head chopped off!!! Oh and he can ride a bit too!!!!

 

[Dovorian]

I've never really been involved in dressage, other than as part of a ODE or training, however reading this trail almost saddens me. It seems that dressage is not necessarily about the training or horse and rider but also about appearance/type. How unfortunate that the 'continental' judges seem to hiccup on a 'non conforming' type of horse, the origins of dressage would show a very different type of animal in training!

Actually - I think there are tinges of this is the UK from time to time...

 

[Judie]

[ QUOTE ]
BUT for the GrandPrix he needs to work more over his back and lower the croup which he does not do consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Richard is quoted as saying

"he (Mr P) had no mistakes and was over the back and good in his neck, which was our target on the tour"

Obviously what you're talking about

 

[Santa_Claus]

I would agree that he isn't yet working as well as he can but he is definetly on the right path. When he performs well he can produce a worthy 70% test (as shown) but its the times that he produces lets say a 68% worthy test but is awarded only 58% because he is dropped a mark on every movement for not showing the same expression that the other more conventional horses show.

and catherineskinner it happens in all sports that are subjective you only need look at showing for another area where it comes down to what the judge likes either conciously or subcounciously. It is sad but it is something that is improving. In the UK you now see especially at prelim and novice levels more hairy cobs etc doing very well i know several have won nationals titles. And I was pleased to read in H&H that i think it was a Fell that won (or at least qualified) at the scottish regional finals at Advanced medium level. Judges eyes are most definetly being opened at national level but it needs a few horses like MR P to open eyes at international level. Doesn't mean he has to or deserves to win but more he deserves to be awarded consistantly the marks that his work merits whether that be a 5 or an 9!

 

[SJFAN]

I remember a few years back there was a French rider's horse who was unconventional in appearance but did smashing tests. I was convinced he was consistently undermarked by the judges.

 

[Dutch]

I would say don't jump at Richard. Mr President has done very, very well he does not however have the same shape as, say, Painted Black or Warum Nicht. His neck and back are completely different, almost hollow compared to them.

I don't think Richard dislikes Mr P, if he did he wouldn't be riding him, you don't know what was said so I wouldn't worry too much. A lot of gossip is reported and taken out of context completely.

 

[whop]

The person who started this thread is just silly ! I agree with witheverybody else's response to her.