Musings about bits... and comparative 'severity'

[PapaFrita]

Since I got back from the UK with my suitcase full of bits, I thought I'd play around a bit (ha ha) with them. Now, I used to ride PF in a straight bar happy mouth snaffle, but she could get strong when jumping so (and because I really didn't have anything else) I tried her in a straight bar happy mouth gag with a curb strap. A rather big leap you might think, but it worked really well. She loved it and I had instant control when I needed it.
So I thought that maybe a kimblewick would suit her- similar action I thought (I'm prepared for someone to correct me!) although the curb would be lower down (and a chain rather than a strap). So, mainly out of curiosity tried one the other day. Instant cross and over-bitted horse. Even if I removed the chain, and put the rein on the main ring (not the slots) she was not a happy bunny. Back in the gag and she's a happy girl again.
THEN I got to wondering about the stigma of using any other bit other than a snaffle; If your horse is ridden in anything other, it must be an uncontrollable speed demon, right?? So if you ride your horse in a snaffle, you're telling the world that he's well-schooled and has a soft mouth... Hmmm. Well, of all the bits I've tried on PF, she hated the french link most and would go around with her nose on her chest. This is closely followed by the kimblewick. Strangely enough though, a regular eggbutt is fine, so it's not the joint she objects to.
And what about people who because they won't upgrade their bit have to really haul to stop. What does that do to the much-to-be-desired independent seat? How can you have an independent seat if you have to put your weight behind your hands??
Sorry for rambling, but anyone got any ideas??

 

[EllieBeast]

yay PF i am forever asking these questions but still i am put down for using these bits. as you know, Ellie is ridden in the same snaffle as PF, and the same gag (albeit without a curb strap and with roundings on the snaffle and second ring.) i have instant control with the gag, yet anything with curb pressure sends her into a loopy camel mode. i, personally much prefer to see a stronger bit used with kind hands than a mild bit used severely.

 

[pottamus]

My boy goes well in his loose ring french link...I tried him in a Pelham when I first had him and he was tanking me around...but he hated it and even with the curb megga loose would stick him chin in his chest and turn into a camel. I have noticed this year as we have progressed with the endurance thing that he has been getting stronger with keeness and takes some slowing, so next season I will try him in a Waterford mouthpiece. But everyone round here will probably slate me for it and think he is badly behaved or something!!!!

 

[flyingfeet]

Horses and humans are individuals and what you may think is a kind bit for one horse may be torture for another.

A good example of this was the German hollow mouth snaffle fashion a while back - a very uncomfortable bit if the horse hasn't got enough space in the mouth.

Moral of the story is that people who condem riders for over bitting often simply don't understand either the bits action or the whole issue of ergonomics.

I'd rather see a horse jumping up and down on the spot than someone hauling on its mouth any day. Yes some people overbit their horses, but I see more underbitting, and mismatch of what the horse likes than true overbitting.

 

[PapaFrita]

Do you ride Ellie in a flash/similar. I use the curb with a cavesson, but take the curb off and I have to use a flash/drop otherwise she gets a bit keen

Antifaz looooooathes curb chains; a while back when he was still being naughty all the time I tried a curb on him and it was the shortest ride ever; he gets very 'uppity' and an the spot, and has superbrakes which are rather disconcerting!

 

[PapaFrita]

Interesting thing about Argentina is that there is no stigma attached to any bits and people use what's effective, full stop. Course some of the combinations make me wince; jointed pelhams with the rein only on the curb, cheltenham gags with just the one rein etc, but TBH I've not seen ANY horses being yanked around/otherwise hurt at shows from this kind of bit. Perhaps this is because nearly everyone has an instructor with them at all times and so someone (hopefully) experienced to advise. On the other hand I think only a few people really understand the action of most bits, and there's only a limited range available ('fancy' stuff like mylers are horrendously expensive and hard to come by)

 

[KatB]

Completely agree PF. I personally think dutch gags aren't severe, as I have sat playing with them to work out their action, and they are nowhere near as direct as something like a kimblewick as the loose ring gives a fair bit of movement before has any strong action, and it just moves the pressure to the poll and in your case, the curb strap. The kimblewick on the other hand come into action immediately because of the fixed mouthpiece. Also, I have ridden my boy in a cheltenham gag with two reins, and it has had not the slightest bit of action on him, other than towing me with his head on the floor (sure gags have a lifting action...!?) but yet tried a "mild" universal, and he refused to go forward at all i it!! Yet can have very good braking system in a nathe loose ring....!??? Very odd, ut comletely agree!

 

[EllieBeast]

Lol, Ellie is just in a plain cavesson bridle for both jumping and flatwork. she had a flash when i bought her, but made no differance when i took it off. and when i was riding her in a jointed gag i refused to strap her mouth shut anyway - sensitive pallet. but she is VV happy in her current arrangement! i am now showjumping her on just the snaffle ring with no adverse effects! - i would have to be kamakazee to try xc with it though!

 

[PaddyMonty]

Biting starts off as a science (action of bit) to narrow the possibilities but ends as an art (how the horse feels).
Problem is I dont know may scientists in to art or the other way round.
The other major factor often overlooked by people when selecting a bit is the riders hand position. Where the riders hand is (vertically) has a huge effect on the action of any bit.
How often do you see riders with perfect hand position versus riders with their hand up round the horses ears or down below the withers.
I'm a firm believer in usung what ever bit you need to at the time to be able to ride with a light contact, still with the aim of reducing the severity of the bit through schooling.

 

[Vicki1986]

I think its all down to personal preference for the horse. its more important to have them comfortable, rather than worrying that people will think you are 'over-bitting' or worried people think you are just following a trend (eg dutch gags)
nothing more annoying that someone yanking and sawing on a horses mouth in a snaffle - just put a different bit in for gods sake!

 

[MagicMelon]

I prefer to use a plain bit if possible (usually a basic Myler). Most horses Ive had go in a simple snaffle. Although Ive got one now who simply doesnt go well in a jointed bit (even the Myler with the roller in the middle, so not really jointed). He LOVES his kimblewick because he loves the mouthpiece. He just respects it and instantly goes nicely in it whereas in snaffles he quite obviously hates it so I rarely ride him in one unless I have to (for dressage). My Anglo had a very sensitive mouth, she would get strong in a plain snaffle yet put her in a Happy Mouth and she was so happy! She just really didnt like the metal bits.

I think all horses are different, even those that arent strong may not like certain bits. I dont see a problem with people using severe bits if their horse likes them, its kinder than hauling away on a snaffle. I think everyone should START with a snaffle and go from there though (I HATE seeing people put the horse straight into something strong).

 

[Theresa_F]

All horses are different. I personally prefer something a little stronger for hunting etc so I can stop on a squeeze of the hand still rather than haul.

Miss Delia normally was in a snaffle, but for hunting I used a three ring gag on middle ring - she is a very sensitive soul and would soon have let me know she was displeased. Meant I always stopped and never had to pull.

Breeze - only brakes were a Dr Bristol and market harborough - pelham was less use than a snaffle.

Fleur - loved her myler snaffle, Jemima hated it.

Jemima - french link hanging cheek - most happy all the time in this.

Cairo - snaffle or he goes very well in his western tom thumb

Chancer - only starting but he is in a french link full cheek.

One old cob I rode could only be stopped in an american gag for jumping and fast work, but would school in a snaffle.

At the end of the day a bit is as severe as the hands on the reins. A snaffle in heavy hands is far worse than a 3 ring on bottom rein in light hands.

 

[WelshRareBit]

Murphy is ridden in a gag, I started him off in a fulmer snaffle - bars were too thick for him, then when to a skinny cooper and steel roller snaffle thing - he never settled in it, and then bought my gag, french link in it too. He seems to like it, has a nice bit of froth in his mouth and doesnt chuck his head up the way he did in the snaffle.
As many have said its down to the horse, Im one of those that unless someone is hurting their horse obviously - TBH I dont even give a monkeys what its got in its mouth, I know bits are very personal and you have to know the horse before you go judging people and telling them off for what bit their using.
xx

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Groundwork schooling my lad has a Neue Schule loose ring lozenge snaffle. For jumping he has a loose ring waterford. He likes working in those & we still retain control.

 

[Sparklet]

I work my horse in a snaffle because I do dressage, not because I think it is the best bit to use. I certainly dont look down on anyone who chooses to use a different type of bit. The shape of the horse and the way it moves is a really clear indicator as to how it is accepting the bit and you see loads of fantastic horses working well in all different types of bit.

You also see swan necked horses and horses diving behind the bit, huge under neck muscles on horses in all different types of bit including snaffles.

Your horse is clearly telling you that the gag is comfortable and the kimblewick is not.

 

[ss1]

I have just upgraded to a jointed pelham with roundings for jumping and my horse is much more controlable (used to be a myler comfort snaffle which I still use for flatwork and hacking). She has a tendency to rush fences and is very keen, although I could stop in the snaffle it sometimes took quite some effort and she didn't appreciate me being strong with her. Now a slight squeeze with the rein and she is back with me rather that fighting.

I am a firm believer that severity is caused by the hands, the bits just work using different actions, therefore it is much better to be very light with a 'stronger' bit than harsh with a 'milder' one.