Musings about shoeing/ground/type of work and soundness...

[PapaFrita]

At the yard, Fabian shoes most of the horses. He does an OK job, although sometimes I think he leaves the toes too long (this is particularly the case when a horse's feet have been neglected, so perhaps he's bringing them back gradually- must ask him) He also shoes Antifaz but not PF who gets hacked to a properly qualified (and rather expensive by Argie standards) farrier nearby.
Now, the regular go-out-on-occasional-hacks horses do fine but I've noticed that all the (4) SJers at the yard that F shoes, with the exception of the Ginger One, have been feeling their legs/feet. Our school surface has been recently improved by the addition of shavings, but used to be rather hard and unforgiving.
PF, on the other hand has never felt the ground, and never been lame (aside from, recently, when she knocked a leg) I was wondering whether there might not be a connection between the quality of shoeing, and how well (or badly) horses adapt/cope with the ground...
However, my theory collapses when it comes to Antifaz, who is shod by Fabian, but who ALSO happens to be a bit knock-kneed and pigeon toed... surely he is a prime candidate for sore legs? And yet he's sound as a pound.
Perhaps then it's more about how I work the horses; every day for 30-45 mins, rather than giving them a bashing 3 times a week, or the fact that I also hack them out (some of the terrain is pretty rough and hard although I don't charge about on it) and do hill work...
Well done for getting this far and what do you peeps think?

 

[Skhosu]

I think your correct, poor shoeing will put unnecessary strain on the legs. And if A is fit, he will feel it less (although naturally it's always the ones you think will struggle stay really really sound!!)

 

[piebaldsparkle]

No expert here, so may be completely wrong, but I thought if the toe was a bit on the long side it put extra strain on the tendons/ligaments in the leg. This coupled with irregualar work is a sure fire way to injury, me thinks. Sure your right in that if feet that are neglected, it will take several shoeing over month to get them back and properly balanced.

Isn't it just typical that the ones you think will go lame are sometimes the soundest!!!! (Lucky for you and A though!!).

 

[Jemayni]

Yea definatly. My horse has odd feet (as in dont match) and there also really boxy; farrier also has a habit of shoeing them long in the toe, which is fine for some horses but because of the natural conf of my horses feet it means hes much more likely to get concussion injuries. He is worked 6 days a week but I am very careful about ground. I jumped him once this summer on bad ground, and with hindsight (hed had stitches in one of his front legs a month prior) I think he might have been favouring his stitched leg slightly when landing etc. He went lame as a result and has taken 6 months to come right, all which is possibly due to bad farriery. However farrier has been fantastic ever since and now shoes him to veterinary advice!

 

[PapaFrita]

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No expert here, so may be completely wrong, but I thought if the toe was a bit on the long side it put extra strain on the tendons/ligaments in the leg.

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Oh, actually (should've been a bit clearer) A's feet are actually shod about right in the toe

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Isn't it just typical that the ones you think will go lame are sometimes the soundest!!!! (Lucky for you and A though!!).

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Yes indeed

 

[PapaFrita]

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I think your correct, poor shoeing will put unnecessary strain on the legs. And if A is fit, he will feel it less (although naturally it's always the ones you think will struggle stay really really sound!!)

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Do you think the way a horse moves might have a bearing too? A moves really well, so perhaps that helps keep him sound too?

 

[Tia]

Sorta changing the subject slightly here; but every single farrier I have spoken to in both countries have made the complaint that owners suggest that they should cut off MORE toe and the farriers have all said that they shouldn't!

The argument appears that we as owners want less toe and the farriers believe there should be more toe than we want.

Sorry, nothing really to do with your question, LOL!!

All of mine are barefoot right now - every one of them "feels" the ground for the first couple of days after they have been trimmed; within 4 days they are all back to normal again. This doesn't appear to change regardless of how often they are ridden. Does this suggest the opposite of what you are thinking and what actually even makes sense to me.....you'd think the more the horse were ridden, the harder and more used to the ground it would make them....but it doesn't appear to be the case with any of mine.

 

[PapaFrita]

Will show you a pic of the horse I think is too long in the toe... I'm sure you'll see what I mean

However, he did have extraordinarily long toes when Fabian was finally asked to shoe him, so perhaps he's taking them back gradually.
I think I was really pondering more the effect of slightly-off hoof balance on soundness, versus different intensity of work.

 

[Tia]

Apologies if I don't reply, I have to go out now - off to see Polar's mummy and daddy.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Sorry I wasn't being clear either!!!

If foot is not balance across either axis - i.e. front to back and/or right to left, then weight/pressure/stain will not be distributed correctly. This can affect the horses action and whole way of going, I believe, as the foot may twist or rock when coming into contact with the ground.

Could also cause either the outside or inside of the foot to come into contact with the ground first, causing uneven wear/strain, which will eventually have reprocussions on the entire limb.

Hard ground won't help as will highlight any inbalance.

The fact that farriers can improve a horses gait with corrective shoeing, must mean the converse is true. No?

Obviously the farrier is limited by a horses feet, some are just naturally flat and slightly longer in th toe, while others are boxy and upright, but they should be a pair (the exception being horses with naturally one foot bigger that the other) and balanced.

Over grown feet will take more than one trimming to get right.

 

[PapaFrita]

Okeedokee. Yes, I understand now. I was rather surprised at how quickly the damage can be felt.

 

[not_with_it]

I think the way a farrier shoes has a lot to do with it. My farrier is very knowledgable and IMO always does a fab job. All the horses he has shod that I know of have never had any issues with their feet. He is the only farrier I have known that will ask other farriers for advice if he comes across a horse with bad conformation, its not because he doesnt know his stuff, he would rather find the best way to shoe the horse.

I have known of horses going lame from certain farriers. My YO's horse ended up with laminitus due to one bad farrier. He has tiny feet for his size and is such a wimp. If he had a shoe off he wouldnt be able to walk, he is now barefoot and his feet are looking better than ever and its all down to my fab farrier.