Musings on highly strung horses, sorry Long!!!

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orangepony

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What would you do with a a horse that is so accident prone in the two years you have owned it, it has yet to do more than 9weeks consistent work!?

Horse in question is currently on box rest, after his most recent escapade but this morning broke through the stable door, with a hoof cast on, whilst under a long acting sedation(not good on box rest) because a horse two fields away whinnied at him.

It is at the stage that he is unmanageable to handle when not with another horse; despite stable mirrors, toys, a horse in the same stable block etc. he is on livery on a mixed yard so other horses unfortunately go in and out at varying times, but the slightest stimulus and he lights up like a Christmas tree!

I have to travel a lot with work and despite him being on a yard with services the grooms are not happy to handle him for a prolonged period due to his attitude. Sometimes, and when not on box rest (we are on day 6), most of the time, he is an absolute dope on a rope though so it is rather inconsistent behaviour.

It has got to the stage where I am seriously considering giving him to a pro or putting down- I thought horse ownership was meant to be relaxing!

As an aside, he is a beautiful mover and has oodles of scope over a fence, we just can't maintain an even keel to get out and do anything, and in the rare occasion we go to a clinic etc he is so wound up that it is almost a waste of money as I cannot hold his concentration.

Where do we go?

Tea and Parkin if you have got this far; some serious HHO sense required please!
 
Think about his feed - could there be anything in it heating

Think about his environment - would a smaller yard with less going on help him

Talk to vet about absolute need for box rest - if/when ground try enough could he be in a 12 foot by 12 foot electric fence pen in with his friends to keep him calmer
Or indeed is it absolutely life critical that he is rested at all - 24/7 turn out can have a massively calming impact.

Could you find a yard with a barn type indoor environment so he can be rested (ish) while still being in with a companion

Just some initial things I might think about
 
Horses like this are a danger to themselves and drive everyone bonkers by being so neurotic.

You ask what would you do? I tell you I would do what a lot of American trainers do - take the horse out to where there is a big strong tree with a good strong branch above the horse's head height.
I would tie a rope around the branch far enough away from the trunk that the horse cannot get wound around the tree itself.
Strong halter and clip and tie the horse to the rope, walk away and leave it. Let it stew. t will not be able to pull back because of the height of the rope, it will throw a right hissy fit, paw, scream, kick out, paw. walk around in tight circles anything it can to get its own way and back to the others.
When it is stood quietly, resting a back leg, take it back to the stables. This can take some hours with really bad horses, others it is only minutes.
They learn that they cannot get their own way and that being away from the herd is not life endangering.
Repeat the next day and when he is stood quite quietly as soon as you put him there, your problems should be over - providing that any unwanted manners are corrected when in the stable.
 
He has no hard feed, just hay and a token feed of a dried grass to have something at mealtimes. Cannot turnout in pen as he jumps out, we discovered this with his last injury! This injury requires immobilisation of the foot to heal hence box rest and the cast in the first place.
We have moved yards. (Used to be at home but not enough turnout) to bigger yard, smaller yards, busier & quieter but he seems happiest at this current one. Cannot stable in barn as he attacks other horses, not intentionally aggressive but very immature and basically play fights over doors, in fields (with my other horses) and is a serial rug ripper! I think even our saintly old pony at home would lose patience.
I am all for horses living out, in herds, as horses but I don't think this horse is safe unless he could be out on 100 acres in a herd where he had a definite place and never had to be ridden!! Not quite so ideal for an intended event horse!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Horses like this are a danger to themselves and drive everyone bonkers by being so neurotic.

You ask what would you do? I tell you I would do what a lot of American trainers do - take the horse out to where there is a big strong tree with a good strong branch above the horse's head height.
I would tie a rope around the branch far enough away from the trunk that the horse cannot get wound around the tree itself.
Strong halter and clip and tie the horse to the rope, walk away and leave it. Let it stew. t will not be able to pull back because of the height of the rope, it will throw a right hissy fit, paw, scream, kick out, paw. walk around in tight circles anything it can to get its own way and back to the others.
When it is stood quietly, resting a back leg, take it back to the stables. This can take some hours with really bad horses, others it is only minutes.
They learn that they cannot get their own way and that being away from the herd is not life endangering.
Repeat the next day and when he is stood quite quietly as soon as you put him there, your problems should be over - providing that any unwanted manners are corrected when in the stable.
Click to expand...

Foxhunter strikes again.
 
Tricky - if he was sound I might think about loads and loads of work to keep his mind busy and body tired so he didn't worry about fussing all the time - clearly that won't work if he's regularly injured.
Not sure you'll get a pro to take him with regular injuries - unless you're willing to pay for their time (a lot!)
If he's young I might get past this current injury and the find the 100 acres to chuck him out over the summer and see if the herd calmed him down at all.
If that isn't practical maybe a difficult decision for you - but he'll never be an eventer if he can't cope with a bit of stress and change and stay sound!
 
Thank you for your thoughts PMum, I am in a catch 22 really as I feel that if I could focus his attention and calm him down then the injuries might be less often as he would be less highly strung. But we can't get to work him hard enough without him getting super fit, and then he is even more highly strung.

I am not a total nonce, but this horse has me completely stumped. We have tried the calm and quiet approach, the firm approach, the ignoring approach and to be honest there is little difference in the result!

Most vexing as I think in the right hands he could be super, but I am running out of ideas, money, sympathy and patience.

Anyone had an experience of natural horsemanship people with this sort of horse?

My instructor mentioned that some horses are just not cut out for anything other than being a horse. Maybe he is one of them!
 
Sell him. My horse is very prone to injuring himself but he's perfect when he is right. It sounds like your horse is too annoying.
 
A couple of thoughts. Have you tried him on a magnesium based calmer such as Top Spec calmer? Some horses that are short on magnesium can react like this. Second suggestion is pain. I am currently treating my TB gelding for gastric ulcers and since being on the treatment, he has been generally far calmer and less jumpy. I have read about horses with gastric ulcers reacting like they are in a panic state whenever they have to do something unfamiliar to them.
 
we were in the same position last year! after 4 months box rest for a tendon and only coming out for 15mins a day for a 'walk'....resulting in horse rearing and bucking more than anything looking like a walk...... she was also dangerous to lead any where and stable manners were not existent. being 17.3 we couldnt even stop this behavour...... so we put it in a stable sized pen with lots of grass and heavly sedated, completly changed her and once again was a dope on a rope.

the pen had sides of 1.5m high, with about 6 strands of electric fenceing, very powerful. she could see others but couldnt touch them.
we went against what the vet said...well the vet didnt even know that she was going out, but we couldnt face another 4 months stuck in a box! it did her no harm, if anything it helped as she was much more settled and her leg was better rested

edit! made it sound like she was better cos we sedated her! not the case, only had sedation for 1st week out, she was exactly the same after stopped sedating her
 
We have tried the magnesium route for 3months and there was no change. He was scoped for ulcers last year and has no ulceration nor any previous indications whatsoever! Healthiest gut the vet had seen in a long time. Have done bute trial, new saddles x3 from various saddlefitters, physio, dentist, full performance work up and has a clean bill of health.

I have considered and explored as many avenues as vet, Instructors and therapists could suggest, so all sorts; we even wondered if he had a brain tumour at one point but ruled this out!

I want to give him the best opportunity to be a successful and happy horse; but frankly I am almost at the end of my tether.
He is a lovely boy when not being neurotic, but it is like a switch and once flicked it is so hard to get though to him. He has turned himself inside out whilst hacking to get away from his field companion being ridden with us to get to a horse belonging to one of our neighbours. It is almost irrational behaviour hence perhaps the idea of a different approach.

We are truly out of ideas. So please keep them coming! I don't mean to negate them all; we have just tried everything we can so far for this horse to no avail.
 
sorry if You have said already but how old is your horse and how long have you had him?

Do you know his history from previous owners?

If you're at the stage of PTS have you considered a blood bank instead?

I know horses are a roller coaster but sounds like you are both pretty miserable at the minute.
 
orangepony said:
We have tried the magnesium route for 3months and there was no change. He was scoped for ulcers last year and has no ulceration nor any previous indications whatsoever! Healthiest gut the vet had seen in a long time. Have done bute trial, new saddles x3 from various saddlefitters, physio, dentist, full performance work up and has a clean bill of health.

I have considered and explored as many avenues as vet, Instructors and therapists could suggest, so all sorts; we even wondered if he had a brain tumour at one point but ruled this out!

I want to give him the best opportunity to be a successful and happy horse; but frankly I am almost at the end of my tether.
He is a lovely boy when not being neurotic, but it is like a switch and once flicked it is so hard to get though to him. He has turned himself inside out whilst hacking to get away from his field companion being ridden with us to get to a horse belonging to one of our neighbours. It is almost irrational behaviour hence perhaps the idea of a different approach.

We are truly out of ideas. So please keep them coming! I don't mean to negate them all; we have just tried everything we can so far for this horse to no avail.
Click to expand...

You poor thing! Have you thought about completely changing his environment? Is there a much smalle, quieter yard you could move to? It is amazing how moving to a quiet yard can completely change a horse for the better. I have two of them here. Their owners cannot believe how chilled and reliable they are. One changed from being a dangerous rearing and striking horse, to dope on a rope the very day he stepped foot here. And that is no exaggeration at all. It would be a real shame to have such a talented and spirited horse PTS. How old is he? Sorry if you have already said. Some horses don't calm down until they are around 10 years old!
 
Horse is 6, I bought him as a 3 yo and know as much of his history in this country. He was owned by a friend before me who had him in training. They bought him from the breeder at goffs. Nowhere in the chain of events has there been a traumatic event or anything which would hint to these behaviours. he was an absysmal but sweet natured racehorse, only ran a handful of times and came to us as the owners wanted him to do something. He was a little sharp at times but nothing naughty, and I honestly don't think he is an aggressive or malicious horse. In fact he is adoringly affectionate in the stable and in the field the majority of the time! He seems to have got clingier the older he gets, but he has never been kept alone or stabled alone aside from when on box rest during the changeover of horses to keep him company! Really clutching at straws to establish some sort of reasoning and resolution as I really like him. Perhaps a change of scenery/rider and yard might be the answer?

Ginger bear- I had not thought of hind gut ulcers, would they lead to neurotic behaviour? Ridden wise he is calm when worked, albeit always going to be slightly sparkly due to being a TB!
 
Can you keep a really detailed diary of what he's been doing, eating etc etc. so you can track what triggers a 'moment!' - clutching at straws but could there be something that triggers it if he's good for a while then explodes (mares in season - if he's riggy?, certain pollen allergies?, painful feet when it's really muddy ?)

If you've tried lots of detailed investigations I'd be really tempted to see if some 24/7 Dr Green sorted his mind out - maybe even at a retirement livery type place where he could get a stable herd and a very large field.
 
orangepony said:
Horse is 6, I bought him as a 3 yo and know as much of his history in this country. He was owned by a friend before me who had him in training. They bought him from the breeder at goffs. Nowhere in the chain of events has there been a traumatic event or anything which would hint to these behaviours. he was an absysmal but sweet natured racehorse, only ran a handful of times and came to us as the owners wanted him to do something. He was a little sharp at times but nothing naughty, and I honestly don't think he is an aggressive or malicious horse. In fact he is adoringly affectionate in the stable and in the field the majority of the time! He seems to have got clingier the older he gets, but he has never been kept alone or stabled alone aside from when on box rest during the changeover of horses to keep him company! Really clutching at straws to establish some sort of reasoning and resolution as I really like him. Perhaps a change of scenery/rider and yard might be the answer?

Ginger bear- I had not thought of hind gut ulcers, would they lead to neurotic behaviour? Ridden wise he is calm when worked, albeit always going to be slightly sparkly due to being a TB!
Click to expand...

again sorry if you've said but has he always been this way since you've had him or has it been a gradual thing?

Do you think he might just need to mature a bit? Could you turn away for 6 months on a grass livery to see if that helps. Just sounds like you've got a special lad under all the nonsense.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Horses like this are a danger to themselves and drive everyone bonkers by being so neurotic.

You ask what would you do? I tell you I would do what a lot of American trainers do - take the horse out to where there is a big strong tree with a good strong branch above the horse's head height.
I would tie a rope around the branch far enough away from the trunk that the horse cannot get wound around the tree itself.
Strong halter and clip and tie the horse to the rope, walk away and leave it. Let it stew. t will not be able to pull back because of the height of the rope, it will throw a right hissy fit, paw, scream, kick out, paw. walk around in tight circles anything it can to get its own way and back to the others.
When it is stood quietly, resting a back leg, take it back to the stables. This can take some hours with really bad horses, others it is only minutes.
They learn that they cannot get their own way and that being away from the herd is not life endangering.
Repeat the next day and when he is stood quite quietly as soon as you put him there, your problems should be over - providing that any unwanted manners are corrected when in the stable.
Click to expand...

WOW!!! And if it doesnt submit i suppose the next step is to deprive it of feed and water so its too weak to fight back?
 
I tried turning him away last spring, with the aim that by the time he came back into work in autumn he might have chilled out and grown up. Dr green worked wonders but it still seems to be this separation anxiety which has always been lurking under the surface. The older he gets and the more established his work is, obviously the more opportunity with away lessons etc to meet new horses. He was fine out hunting, but obviously no horses were 'leaving him'!

It seems to manifest itself mostly when something else calls out, meaning that as stray whinny in a dressage warm up can lead to warp factor 10 in reverse and no warm up at all for us!

He is no better even with company; as it is the distraction he feeds on. But when racing he was as lazy as anything so it appears to be getting worse the further along the road we get. Quite demoralising as a rider and handler!

Although yes Victoria1980x I want to persevere because he is such a cracking horse when not going ballistic!!

I shan't be tying him to a tree though, I value my horse with its neck intact...
 
You could be writing about my horse. In 6 years of owning him I can probably count the times we've cantered on my fingers! This is because as soon as he's fit enough to canter he has another accident. He's absolutely neurotic about everything and like you people at my yard were unhappy to handle him- I used to get calls at work that I had to go and do something with him as he was going wild!
I tried to get shot once or twice but he comes bouncing back merrily to me!
He's now had to retire as on coming back into work after a 5 month box rest for last injury he was diagnosed with KS and it also brought to light a worse back injury.
so looking like im stuck with him, this is actually fine I kind of think now that we just belong together no matter what and I have to lump it ;)
Ive moved to a private field with a tiny yard so I can literally pander his every need he has a little companion who never leaves his side and no one else much handles him anymore. He's very different, much happier.
I realise this would be difficult for you as you say you work so much but it could be an option?
 
Oh haha, they could be twins! For me too anything calling can cause absolute hell and he was retired from racing due to being too laid back!
Weirdly on his last box rest I took him back to a racing yard so he had constant company but was concerned about the business of it....He was the most chilled and laid back ive ever known. Maybe the very strict routine and all the horses doing the same is the key?
 
My ex racer also has separation anxiety, I used to take him to shows with a friend til I realised it made him worse when it came to going in the ring. I have had him many years now and he's never grown out of it. I have on 2 occasions sent him to a lady who breaks and schools horses mainly tb's and he is no bother with her. He is a completely different horse for her, so sometimes I do think a horse and rider just aren't meant to be. I think he thrives with lots of work as in everyday maybe twice a day, whereas I'm a fair weather rider so it's just never going to work. It's a good job I've room for ornaments.
 
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