my dog just had our 13 year old cat in his mouth

VictoriaEDT

VictoriaEDT

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www.equinedental.co.uk
im at my whits end! Cat is ok but a bit shaken. She was upstairs and angus (2year old castrated gordon setter) got through the gate and flew upstairs and got her.
He has just had the beating of his life but he didnt even wimper or make any noise (timing was good so he knew what he was getting beaten for).
this dog just is untrainable! Yes he went to dog training for a year and half every week and he got his kennel club bronze good citizenship and he does exactly what he is told in training.........urrr im so cross with him
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I'd be interested in any answers - ours are obsessed with cats, we have introduced them both (while on leads) and cats have hissed and puffed up but that hasn't put them off!
It's a fixation and it is hard to get them to focus once they have caught sight of a cat (their sire actually killed one!)
We are just trying to keep them seperate and distract with treats/play.

Your story reminds me of the time our old girl killed my pet rabbit and she was beside herself, she presented it to my mum, as if to say 'look, I got it at last, aren't I a clever girl?'
 
hmm my working cocker did that (a wild bunny) but I wasnt too harsh on him cos he is usually so good and clever and he was so proud of himself.
she lives in the utility room and Angus goes in there and ignores her as it is here territory but this morn she was upstairs (he isnt allowed upstairs) and he was fixated, I had to pick him up by his skin! (all 29kgs of him!)
 
when my collie was a pup i let him out with the cats who if he pushed his luck would use their claws on his nose, he now doesnt look at them, my old rottie was the same as she got attacked by a siamese who had kittens so she was terrified of cats for a long time after.

he is still a young dog and going through his naughty stage, so you will prob find him hard work for a bit.
 
My three cats stand their ground with my BC and she comes off far worse. She is extremely obedient however we have a problem with her being obsessed with the cats, the only thing we can use is a distraction such as a tennis ball (greater obsession). Have discussed this with numerous trainers and they cannot help. We have trained the commands "leave it" and "back off" to ensure she is only allowed within a set distance of a cat. However she would never run after one of ours if we called her back, she does not ignore me when I issue a command. Maybe just try and strengthen your position and practice obedience with distractions?? Good behavior at classes can be easier than at home as he may be less confident thus paying attention to you more...as has been said he is young so keep going with training you'll get there.
 
the strange thing is that we got the Demon dog when he was 8 weeks and there were loads of cats at the breeders. Then the breeder looked after him a few times when we went on holiday (the best breeder in the world, she didnt want him in kennels so offered to demon sit!
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) and he doesnt batter an eyelid at her cats!
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I dont think beating him will do you any favours.

You'll just teach him that your hands are cruel and not kind.

As I have learnt - dogs don't know right from wrong, they just do what is rewarding, and the thrill of the chase is very rewarding.

You'll just have to make sure that the cat and dog are kept seperated ALWAYS.
 
Shame you felt the need to beat him
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I'm not saying you shouldn't discipline dogs - but there are ways of letting them know what behaviours are not acceptable
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- I guess he didn't know chasing the cat was wrong... it was probably just fun...

My tone of voice is enough for my dog to know that I don't want him to do something (I say 'ah ah' - not even loudly - but he knows to stop and looks very sorry)

My experience with cats is that in the end they usually win - you just have to give them space to escape from the dog (eg a dog guard) so they have somewhere quiet to escape to. Cats usually swipe dogs on the nose if they get in their face and that usually sorts them out. The dogs has to learn to respect them - do you usually keep them separate? Even when he was a little puppy? Does the cat not stand up for it's self?

My parents have a 19 year old cat that is very pathetic - but she'll hiss at my dog and he will cower and ignore her... He could easily kill her - but wouldn't as she has been in charge every time he has met her.
 
when I say "beat" I dont mean it literally!!! Gordons are extremely tough and need firm discipline but I dont wack him or anything. I grab his jowels, put him to the floor and lower the tone of my voice in a very firm authorative way...he did get a few smack on his bottom with my hand but I can assure you it hurt me more than him!!!
I have always been told im too soft with him!
 
Unfortunately elsie is a very old very weak cat and she was just asleep upstairs and didnt even run from him. He knows not to go near her and usually a firm "leave it" does the job but he knew she had gone upstairs so thought he would take advantage! I promise he is loved, just too much!
 
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when I say "beat" I dont mean it literally!!!

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And yet you expressed surprise that he didn't whimper?

There is never, ever any need to use violence against any animal. You will never gain the trust and respect of your dog this way and as such he will be less likely to obey you.

It also strikes me as strange that you describe him as untrainable and then say that he does everything asked of him in training class?
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I would recommend that you register on a specialist dog training forum such as the Victoria Stilwell forum and request help for managing/training your dog with respect to the cat problem. There are very experienced canine behaviourists on that forum who give their time freely for the benefit of dogs.

I would respectfully suggest that you do not post that "He has just had the beating of his life but he didnt even wimper or make any noise".

Imagine the feelings on this forum if someone admitted to beating their horse. Horse and dog training have come a long way since it was considered acceptable to beat either animal.
 
oh dear this came out all wrong!!!
when I said he didnt wimper I said it in a way that I was surprised he didnt as he was still so fixated on the cat in the room next door!
I am not violent with any animal and anyone who knows me knows that but when your very big boystrous dog tries to kill your cat; you cant just tap him on the nose and say "naughty boy"...he has to know he cant do it again.
Angus is totally bonkers and boystrous and he is usually very well trained apart from when it comes to cats!
Please dont tell me that you wouldnt be cross if you caught your dog with your elderly cat in his mouth
 
Thats a fair point and I apologise if it came accross (which on reading my original post that it probably did!) that I am a cruel dog owner, which I can assure you I am not. I have never smacked him before so have never seen his reaction to being smacked, I personally would have expected him to make a noise (so I cant have smacked him that hard)
Oh dear this is going round in circles....yes I was cross for him grabbing the cat and he got smacked for it but I apologise for how it came accross.

Anyway, here are some pics of angus and I do love him very very much

Angus' 1st birthday
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He looks like a real sweetie - even if he is going through a naughty stage!
Can't see the problem with one or two smacks if they were immediate enough for him to know why you did it! Our JRT is obsessed by our 2 cats but more in a trying to play with them way, and they tell her when enough is enough. She chased a horrid ginger tom off our property the other day, and was very fierce indeed - but didn't bite it or anything (just saw it off with lots of barking). I am therefore assuming that she knows the difference between HER cats and strange cats.

FIona
 
I feel terrible now! I love him to bits but he knows he is not to go in the utility room where she lives and if he does i say "leave it" and he does leave her. But he just went flat out to get to her this morning.

I think he is going through the terrible 2s!
 
Don't feel terrible
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...u acted quick to save your cat...cats can stick up for themselves...thats true...however thay are no match for dogs esp a breed such as your own, and he could have easily killed her if you had not intervened....Im glad she is ok.
 
Lovely pics Victoriaedt. He looks very happy.

For something like cat-chasing it is a good idea to get the input of experienced trainers and behaviourists, which is why I suggested a dedicated dog forum. If you want to find out about face-to-face training they may be able to recommend someone.

I hope the cat is ok and you have a peaceful night.
 
I know elsie wouldnt be able to, you only have to blow at her and she would fall over. She is a stray that appeared at our house last winter on deaths door, vet said she prob wouldnt make it but she is now double the weight (but still skin and bones) and is loving her life of endless food and comfy bed on the boiler!
I was just worried by reading peoples reactions that they thought I am an animal beater
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Oh for God's sake, I cannot believe the attitude of some people. How dare anyone interoggate VictoriaEDT regarding the manner in which she disciplines her dog - or any animal, come to that? How can anyone determine whether or not someone else's animal is in need of physical discipline? There are some animals for whom a smack is sometimes necessary. Our girls both get a smack when appropriate - if they steal food, if they barge through doorways, if they jump up on the side. Other times, a strong word is enough - if they have had an accident in our absence, or if they chase the cat, for example. Each situation, and each dog, is different, and no person has the right to tell another person how they should/should not discipline their animals.

Sheesh, and we wonder why so many kids run riot at the moment
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I'd just like to say that having met him, Angus is indeed very well loved and mostly obedient until he gets fixated on something, he then ignores everything apart from his fixation! I don't believe for one moment that Vicky did anything other than discipline her dog for doing something very wrong (and he does know he should leave the cat alone). If she'd done nothing this could have been a very different story
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I don't know Vicky that well but have met her animals who all seem very well looked after. Tbh if my dog did anything like this he would get a very severe telling off too.
 
thanks chester (that makes me sad as my old english setter RIP was called chester as was his father and weirdly enough Angus' father is called chester as well...strange eh). I want to pay for Ceasar dog man to come over from the states!
I will find a dedicated forum, hopefully a gun dog one. Someone suggested that maybe I should train him for the gun as he may be bored and this would give him a job. He is an excellent stalker...its in his blood!
 
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You'll just teach him that your hands are cruel and not kind.

As I have learnt - dogs don't know right from wrong.

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Absolute tosh! Discipline makes a dog respect you as well as love you; reluctance to use any kind of firm hand ensures that they will walk all over you. My dogs have both been disciplined properly from puppies, yet they do not think my hands are cruel in the slightest! Because the hands that smack them when they are naughty are only too quick to reward them when they are good.
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And as for dogs not knowing right from wrong.....that's tosh too! Try telling that to my two - neither of which are the brightest of doggies! I will admit that they sometimes cannot help themselves, but they sure as hell know when they're in the wrong!
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no person has the right to tell another person how they should/should not discipline their animals.


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and yet you are claiming the 'right' to tell someone else how they should or should not respond to a post saying that they gave their dog the beating of his life?

You a moderator or sommat?
 
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no person has the right to tell another person how they should/should not discipline their animals.


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and yet you are claiming the 'right' to tell someone else how they should or should not respond to a post saying that they gave their dog the beating of his life?

You a moderator or sommat?

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yes but seeing as Angus has never really been smacked, to him and me 3 or 4 sharp smacks is the (dare I say it) "beating of his life", however some of you dont know me that well and me saying that can be portrayed very badly!
 
Totally agree with Cala's comments. My best friend bred Gordon's so I understand where you are coming from. If one of my dogs had one of my cats like that they would soon know to put it down and by that I mean raising my voice but if I had to intervene more I would.
 
yes, Victoriaedt, I see what you mean. And it's true, I don't know you because I haven't been around on the forum much for ages.

Can't get the hang of the new layout for threads but it seems there are folks who will soon put me right given half a chance. ROFLMAO

Good luck with the gundog forum.
 
Try putting him on a leash, and reintroducing him to the cat, starting right from the very beginning. When he fixates on the cat, touch him on the shoulder and get him to look at you. Every time he relaxes and avoids fixation, praise him, ideally using a clicker (if he's food-motivated, a treat or two wouldn't be a bad thing, seeing as this is quite a serious case).

This is what I did when training Stella to tolerate skateboards. She doesn't bat an eyelid when one goes by, whereas previously, she would bark like demon dog and try to grab onto the back of the board
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