My friend's having problems with her youngster, any advice?

bryngelenponies

bryngelenponies

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 May 2010
Messages
796
Location
South Wales
www.biopharm-leeches.com
My friend bought her mare as a weanling and she is now 4yo. She is a TB x Appaloosa and a chestnut mare (although I don't really believe the stereotype). Basically there is nothing physically wrong with her, she's had all checks done (i.e. back/teeth/vet) and she is sound. However my friend has been having real problems with her at every stage. To be honest I think that she has been allowed to get away with far too much and is acting like a spoilt brat, although my friend simply doesn't/can't see it this way.
In the stable she is horrid- she bites if she feels like it and won't allow anyone to touch her bum (unless you want to be trapped in a stable with a spinning and kicking loon!)
Breaking her in has proved to be a nightmare too. She won't have anything in her mouth, she won't jump with anyone on her back, she won't canter with anyone on her back. And apparently she has thrown a guy off a few times (a guy who supposedly breaks in young horses.) All of which just sounds to me like a horse who hasn't been trained properly really.
In my opinion I think that it would have been best to send her off to be broken in because my friend has had no experience with young horses and she doesn't seem to have been able to teach her right from wrong. But I'm wondering if there's any advice that anyone could offer in this situation? Thanks so much :)
 
Sounds like she needs completely restarting! I would turn her away for the winter and then send her way to be professionally broken in the Spring.
 
I agree, the mare needs to be sent to a professional to be rebacked. I also think that the owner needs some training too, because otherwise the mare could revert back to her old ways once she is home again.
 
Yep as the others say turn her away, I personally cant reccomend groundwork enough to people, perhaps get an instructor out to give her a few sessions for something to work on over winter as this will install respect, then send her away to a reputable yard next year.
 
I definitely think that restarting her with a professional is the way forward. However I'm not sure what my friend can do about her biting and her hatred for having her bum touched? I would have thought that desensitizing her or maybe building up gradually to having her bum touched would work but when you touch her she is completely uncontrollable and psychotic. It's a very unsafe situation to be in.
On top of this she has been injured quite badly twice in the field and has thus had months off work through box rest. My friend actually tried to put her out on loan and as soon as the potential loanee touched the mare's back end she had to basically run out of the stable or get trampled to death!
 
bryngelenponies said:
I definitely think that restarting her with a professional is the way forward. However I'm not sure what my friend can do about her biting and her hatred for having her bum touched? I would have thought that desensitizing her or maybe building up gradually to having her bum touched would work but when you touch her she is completely uncontrollable and psychotic. It's a very unsafe situation to be in.
On top of this she has been injured quite badly twice in the field and has thus had months off work through box rest.
Click to expand...

Your friend is stuck between a rock and a hard place! We have one rather like hers in for backing at present. (The staff lovingly call her 'the psychotic b*tch from hell' :rolleyes:)

We've been working on this mare for 6 weeks and she is now rideable in the manege in walk, trot and canter - but still has the odd session of shan't, can't, won't! These involve refusing to go forward, running backwards, some bucking - and once only, she reared over and slipped onto her a*se! (She hasn't done THAT again!) She swings her backside on you in the stable, and has been known to chase a groom out of her field! She's had her back, mouth and even her ovaries checked to rule out any possible physical problems but we've come to the conclusion that it's a combination of genetics, a slightly dithery owner/breeder, and whatever was done by the first trainer who tried to back her (but didn't get as far as getting on!)

We WILL get her going well - but she'll be hellishly difficult to sell as she'll be a 'professional ride' for at LEAST the next year and - although she's a nice type - she's not the sort of mare to interest a professional! So owner will have spent a LOT of money on her - and may well be stuck with selling her for peanuts.

In the case of your friends horse, the 'months of box rest' MIGHT give a clue. Was she evil BEFORE the box rest?? If not, then she may have developed ulcers as a result of excessive confinement. Ulcers can be very painful and can make a horse quite evil! If - however- she was evil before the box rest, then there are several possibilities. 1 (unlikely) is that she is the one in 100,000 odd horses who is BORN nasty. FAR more likely is that she had a wimp of a mother and no other field companions to put her in her place as a youngster. She grew up thinking she could do what she damn well wanted - and her owner didn't teach her differently and probably reinforced her thoughts! :rolleyes:

She won't improve in her home environment -she rules the roost there. Her only chance is to go to a GOOD professional yard in the hope that a new environment- and people who won't play her games - can sort her out! (But friend would have to be VERY sure that it WAS a good trainer -with good staff! Too often this sort of mare gets punished unduly - and mares do NOT respond well to punishment! If someone tries to 'beat her into shape', she'll probably kill them!)

BUT - there is NO guarantee of success in this situation. Your friend would have to gamble quite a lot of money - say at LEAST 8 weeks training at £150 pw - in the knowledge that she may not improve sufficiently to be a useful animal. If she's not prepared to do that, then frankly, the mare will just get worse - until someone is seriously hurt!
 
JanetGeorge said:
Your friend is stuck between a rock and a hard place! We have one rather like hers in for backing at present. (The staff lovingly call her 'the psychotic b*tch from hell' :rolleyes:)

We've been working on this mare for 6 weeks and she is now rideable in the manege in walk, trot and canter - but still has the odd session of shan't, can't, won't! These involve refusing to go forward, running backwards, some bucking - and once only, she reared over and slipped onto her a*se! (She hasn't done THAT again!) She swings her backside on you in the stable, and has been known to chase a groom out of her field! She's had her back, mouth and even her ovaries checked to rule out any possible physical problems but we've come to the conclusion that it's a combination of genetics, a slightly dithery owner/breeder, and whatever was done by the first trainer who tried to back her (but didn't get as far as getting on!)

We WILL get her going well - but she'll be hellishly difficult to sell as she'll be a 'professional ride' for at LEAST the next year and - although she's a nice type - she's not the sort of mare to interest a professional! So owner will have spent a LOT of money on her - and may well be stuck with selling her for peanuts.

In the case of your friends horse, the 'months of box rest' MIGHT give a clue. Was she evil BEFORE the box rest?? If not, then she may have developed ulcers as a result of excessive confinement. Ulcers can be very painful and can make a horse quite evil! If - however- she was evil before the box rest, then there are several possibilities. 1 (unlikely) is that she is the one in 100,000 odd horses who is BORN nasty. FAR more likely is that she had a wimp of a mother and no other field companions to put her in her place as a youngster. She grew up thinking she could do what she damn well wanted - and her owner didn't teach her differently and probably reinforced her thoughts! :rolleyes:

She won't improve in her home environment -she rules the roost there. Her only chance is to go to a GOOD professional yard in the hope that a new environment- and people who won't play her games - can sort her out! (But friend would have to be VERY sure that it WAS a good trainer -with good staff! Too often this sort of mare gets punished unduly - and mares do NOT respond well to punishment! If someone tries to 'beat her into shape', she'll probably kill them!)

BUT - there is NO guarantee of success in this situation. Your friend would have to gamble quite a lot of money - say at LEAST 8 weeks training at £150 pw - in the knowledge that she may not improve sufficiently to be a useful animal. If she's not prepared to do that, then frankly, the mare will just get worse - until someone is seriously hurt!
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say what great advise JG!!
Your the kind of poster that makes this forum so invaluable:)
 
The only thing I would add to JG's post which is absolutely spot on IMO, is advise your friend to not dither for too long before sorting this mare out as it will only get harder as she gets older.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Your friend is stuck between a rock and a hard place! We have one rather like hers in for backing at present. (The staff lovingly call her 'the psychotic b*tch from hell' :rolleyes:)

We've been working on this mare for 6 weeks and she is now rideable in the manege in walk, trot and canter - but still has the odd session of shan't, can't, won't! These involve refusing to go forward, running backwards, some bucking - and once only, she reared over and slipped onto her a*se! (She hasn't done THAT again!) She swings her backside on you in the stable, and has been known to chase a groom out of her field! She's had her back, mouth and even her ovaries checked to rule out any possible physical problems but we've come to the conclusion that it's a combination of genetics, a slightly dithery owner/breeder, and whatever was done by the first trainer who tried to back her (but didn't get as far as getting on!)

We WILL get her going well - but she'll be hellishly difficult to sell as she'll be a 'professional ride' for at LEAST the next year and - although she's a nice type - she's not the sort of mare to interest a professional! So owner will have spent a LOT of money on her - and may well be stuck with selling her for peanuts.

In the case of your friends horse, the 'months of box rest' MIGHT give a clue. Was she evil BEFORE the box rest?? If not, then she may have developed ulcers as a result of excessive confinement. Ulcers can be very painful and can make a horse quite evil! If - however- she was evil before the box rest, then there are several possibilities. 1 (unlikely) is that she is the one in 100,000 odd horses who is BORN nasty. FAR more likely is that she had a wimp of a mother and no other field companions to put her in her place as a youngster. She grew up thinking she could do what she damn well wanted - and her owner didn't teach her differently and probably reinforced her thoughts! :rolleyes:

She won't improve in her home environment -she rules the roost there. Her only chance is to go to a GOOD professional yard in the hope that a new environment- and people who won't play her games - can sort her out! (But friend would have to be VERY sure that it WAS a good trainer -with good staff! Too often this sort of mare gets punished unduly - and mares do NOT respond well to punishment! If someone tries to 'beat her into shape', she'll probably kill them!)

BUT - there is NO guarantee of success in this situation. Your friend would have to gamble quite a lot of money - say at LEAST 8 weeks training at £150 pw - in the knowledge that she may not improve sufficiently to be a useful animal. If she's not prepared to do that, then frankly, the mare will just get worse - until someone is seriously hurt!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your great reply. The mare was nasty before she went on box rest- ever since she was a yearling she's been difficult and temperamental.
I do agree though that she could be this way through lack of companionship with other foals. In the yard my friend used to be at when she got the mare there was no other foal for her to interact with. She only had interaction with other horses the same age as herself when my friend changed yards, and that was when the mare was about 2yo (which I'm assuming is after the majority of social training has already occurred?)
My friend currently plans to get her friend to break her in, however she would be staying at the same yard and I have no idea what experience this friend has in training young horses other than that she showjumps.
 
I thing JG has covered everything, but if it is a case of your field not having the money available to go to a good yard and needs to save, she should turn the mare away, and any interation she has with the mare should all be started from scratch where your friend is the boss and she has to re-inforce this.
It is horrid but somethimes we have to shout at the horses or we would have a lot of ill mannered animals.
One of mine kicked me yesterday and i promptly kicked her straight back, a couple of the girls on the yard looked at me as if i was the devil. but i stated that if she had done that to another horse she would of been kicked back. My place in the herd is leader and i would like it to stay that way
 
bryngelenponies said:
Thank you so much for your great reply. The mare was nasty before she went on box rest- ever since she was a yearling she's been difficult and temperamental.
I do agree though that she could be this way through lack of companionship with other foals. In the yard my friend used to be at when she got the mare there was no other foal for her to interact with. She only had interaction with other horses the same age as herself when my friend changed yards, and that was when the mare was about 2yo (which I'm assuming is after the majority of social training has already occurred?)
My friend currently plans to get her friend to break her in, however she would be staying at the same yard and I have no idea what experience this friend has in training young horses other than that she showjumps.
Click to expand...

That clarifies things a bit! It's not FOAL company that foals need quite so much as bossy mares! When I first started breeding, I SHOULD have had two foals in year 1 - but sadly one mare lost her foal with a red bag delivery at 290 days! So remaining mare & foal lived 'alone' as unit with no other horses in the same field! Mum was a pushover - and foal grew up to be a right little Madam (ok with people - we made sure of that - but VILE with other horses!) She continued to be evil with other horses until this year - when I turned her out with a much bigger (and JUST as evil) mare! It ws pretty hairy for a while - but she is now a MUCH better natured horse in the field!

That mare's next foals (7 in total) were all sweet as pie, because they were raised in a herd environment and while their Mum didn't put them in their places, the other mares did! I now make sure that my fillies are run on with a bossy old retired mare as herd boss! It works really well - when I putold Nancy in with the two year old fillies this year there were 2 (of 6) who were right little cows! Within 24 hours, they were standing back respectfully waiting for THEIR pile of haylage - rather than beating up the other fillies!

BUT - the lack of horsey socialisation does NOT explain or excuse this mare's behaviour towards people-THAT is down to 'bad' or 'soft' handling by people!

Unless your friend's friend is experienced with opinionated youngsters,(and keeps your friend right away from Madam), not much will change, I'm afraid!! Even some of the BEST riders are USELESS when it comes to educating a youngster - or sorting out a horse with behavioural problems (think a certain top show jumping rider letting Prat Parelli abuse his stallion in public because HE couldn't sort out its bridling problems!)
 
"BUT - there is NO guarantee of success in this situation. Your friend would have to gamble quite a lot of money - say at LEAST 8 weeks training at £150 pw - in the knowledge that she may not improve sufficiently to be a useful animal. If she's not prepared to do that, then frankly, the mare will just get worse - until someone is seriously hurt!"

At last someone has said what need to be said. Ms George got honesty and integrity. There are NO GUARANTEES with horses. Professional help does not always save the situation. So many people will spend 2/3 times the real cost of the horse on professionals when they would be better to find a more knowledge home for challengeing horse and to find a more suitable one. But this is how professionals make a nice living - exotic holidays, smart houses - you know, the life style.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top