My Horse is baffling me (also posted in Stable yard)

Rockchick

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I posted a few weeks ago about my horse "tying up" - which i'm now not entirely convinced he did.

I'll give the history (as brief as possible) and eagerly await your thoughts / input / suggestions

chocolate for those that get through the whole post

On 4th October we took henry horse out on a hack- just a walk with a bit of trot - nothing out of the ordinary - in fact less than his usual workload, even so, he was well warmed up and cooled down, put him away and left him for night.
The next day the yard owner text me to say he'd come out stiff on his back end (8am) - we thought he'd just "slept funny" so turned him out anyway and he walked it off and came in from field later (4pm) - totally sound. I had a look at himb at 6:30pm and he was really stiff on his back-end again, decided that we'd see how he was the next day and get vet if no better. The next morning he came out the same (stiff) so left him in and yard owner phoned vet, who diagnosed that he'd tied up.. which baffled me as nothing that casuses this could be associated with henry's "managment / routines" vet ran some bloods and prescribed a mild dose of acp (4x tablets twice a day for 1 week) and bute (1 sachet twice a day for 1 week) I didnt work henry at all over this period of time. His bloods came back as showing elevated muscle enzymes

Once he'd finished his course of treatment he came "sound" and stayed sound
I started light lungeing, lots of walking and then slowly introduced trot and built this up slowly.
Friday 21st october i decided to get on him (first time in almost 3 weeks) did 15 mins of walk with a few bursts of trot - again well warmed up and cooled down - was as good as gold!

Saturday 22nd october he came out of his stable - stiff again (panic) so instantly thought its linked to ridden work / tack/ back etc as he had been fine upto this point

Sunday 22nd - had a visit from dawn clow - equine body worker who could find nothing wrong muscular wise and observed him free schooling and again couldnt see anything "out of the ordinary" - had a look at his saddle and instantly it was clear that that was the issue - it was tight/ nipping/ restricting his shoulder - limiting movement etc thus putting extra pressure on his back etc

Saddle not been near him since - just done lunge work - walk and trot, building up the trot work and he's been fine

saddle fitter scheduled for 28th october to fit new saddle

Monday 24th & Tues 25th - Light lunge work
Weds 26th - day off

Thurs 27th - came out stiff again - not worked tonight either

Im not sure what to do now

** Update: 28th October** - came out of stable much better :)
Saddler coming tonight
Chiropractor coming 02 November
 

popularfurball

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Have you looked at temperature and dampness...?

I'm having the same problem but with a warmer rug on the stiffness is much reduced (as much as I dislike rugging my nomally naked in winter native)
 

Rockchick

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Update:
Had to take a rain check on saddle fitting as poor horsey still isnt right, had chiropractor type person out to him as planned - she did as much as she could (without doing too much) picked up on the muscle tighness and relieved what she could but advised to get vet back out as the cause wasnt clear - and none of the "causes" of tying up apply to him in any way

Had vet back out - she prescribed more bute and 5x capsules of dantrium per day (1x bute and 5 x dantrium am and pm) however there has been no change in him at all :(

Got the senior vet coming out to him today as this has been going on a while now and nothing has changed - in fact he's taking longer to "un-stiffen" if anything

Lunged gently the other evening and once he'd loosened up he was fine in walk and trot, pulled him up after 6 strides of canter as he wasnt at all happy and was also holding his tail to one side!

he's well rugged, and only fed on a fibre based diet - when he's in work he isnt "hammered" and is always well warmed up and cooled down and in the winter has an exercise sheet on when being worked

Any thoughts?

*chocolate for those of you that have got this far*
 

strangeways

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It does sound like it's muscular, as he's loosening up after some exercise.

Some time ago my boy took a nasty fall over a jump in the school and put his back out. It wasn't immediately obvious as he's very stoic, but he had tweaked his pelvis to one side slightly by standing on his tail when he got up after the fall.

Because he stopped working properly over his back and was hollowing under the saddle, over a few months this all led to a gradual build-up of a muscle blockage just behind the saddle - he had a bulge of muscle right behind it and he was carrying his tail to one side.

It sounds like perhaps yours might have developed something similar, if less obvious, either from tweaking himself in the field or the stable, or from the saddle being uncomfortable since you say it's not fitting too well. Have you noticed if he's lost or gained muscle tone in strange places?

Mine was eventually solved after a few visits from a McTimoney chiropracter (I particularly went for McTimoney because they are slightly on the physio side and help with muscular problems as well as joints).
 

Burnttoast

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He does sound a bit like my friend's EPSM horse. It might be worth trying the EPSM diet - it won't do any harm even if it doesn't do any good! Re this, a muscle biopsy is the only reliable test if you want to know for sure. The saddle could easily be a separate issue in itself. Hope you get some answers soon.
 

cptrayes

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Check for sacroiliac strain, it can be very difficult to spot. A physio and a vet both missed it on my horse. I found slight heat near the tuber sacrale - the highest point on the bum. Have you had any accidents, or him loose in the field, where you have seen him "sit down"? That can cause it, it's what caused mine. It would also pull muscles when it was first done, resulting in raised muscle enzymes on the blood test. It can cause very odd lameness, mine was lame on a foreleg!
 

flintfootfilly

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Someone's beaten me to it! I was going to suggest EPSM (equine polysaccharide storage myopathy), sometimes also known as PSSM (polysaccharide storage myopathy). It's a cause of tying up and doesn't seem to be widely recognised at the moment.

If it is EPSM, then it can be exacerbated by restricted movement between exercise sessions, so shutting him in a stable may well be what causes his muscles to become so uncomfortable that he comes out looking stiff.

There is a yahoo EPSM group, and also there is an excellent website with info from Beth Valentine who seems to be one of the leading researchers into EPSM. It's on the www.ruralheritage.com website, with loads of questions and answers under "vet clinic", and other stuff too. You may also come across a Stephanie Valberg who is also doing research into it.

Heavier ponies/horses seem to be more likely to have a type of EPSM that causes performance limitation in many cases rather than acute tying up. Whereas a different gene mutation has been recognised which is more common in lighter horses.

The heavier horse gene (GYS1) can be tested for by a hair sample. 30 hairs plucked from the mane or tail. £25 a time from Animal Genetics down in Cornwall. I only know because I've just sent a few samples down there for testing and am awaiting results.

The other gene, the one more often found in lighter horses, can only be diagnosed by muscle biopsy. Taking out a sliver of muscle from alongside the tail. About 3cm long by 1cm wide, under standing sedation. I understand that most vets should be able to perform the biopsy, but it's worth having the fixed sample looked at by someone who is used to diagnosing EPSM/PSSM.

Caroline Hahn at Edinburgh Dick is the name I've come across. She's certainly cowritten various papers on EPSM. I don't know if there are any other experts in EPSM in the UK. That was going to be one of my next things to find out, if any of mine come back positive.

Beth Valentine says very clearly on the rural heritage site that those with the GYS1 mutation quite often don't tie up fully so their muscle enzymes may only be mildly elevated, rather than through the roof. In many cases, they seem to suffer muscle dysfunction (cramping etc) rather than a catastrophic breakdown of muscles, but their performance can still be very severely affected.

Don't know whether it's that or not, but may be worth reading up on those sites and seeing if it starts to sound more plausible.

From what you've said, I can't see any reason to rule it out.

Sarah
 

Rockchick

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Further update!

Had my “senior” vet out today and he came to a pretty instant diagnosis……

THRUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait a minute before you all faint….. there’s more…….

My horse gets his feet picked out 3 times a day and none of us have noticed anything, he’s been shod and the farrier didn’t pick up on anything! And he certainly didn’t have thrush when all this first started (I doubt 4 people + farrier would have missed it)

Apparently his muscle enzymes were raised as he’s been compensating for being footsore/ un-even weight bearing (he’s never shown these signs and doesn’t so much as rest a foot – unless he’s asleep!)

He’s been having 2 bute a day but still “funny” so it must be some “killer thrush ” and he’s also not “funny” in the field or at any other time other than the first few minutes when he’s been in overnight

Vet noticed he was a little lame on his right hind leg and when turning rather than crossing his legs over he pivots round (and has done since this started) but didn’t seem to count this as a factor too much

So, I’m going to treat the “thrush” whilst getting another independent vets opinion tomorrow!

He’s to have a week off and then re-assess if not better!

I’ll have 3 vet bills from my current vet, which seems like paying for nothing to me

Hmmmm…. RANT OVER!
 
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