My horse is ill, the vets are stumped. Can anyone help??

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mcctaurina

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Good evening all,
I have a horse that is currently in equine hospital and the vets have no idea what is wrong with him. I will outline his case from the start, if anyone has had a horse with similar symtoms diagnosed I would so very much appreciate your input! he is a 16hh 15yo hanovarian x tb eventer that has finished his eventing season a couple weeks ago at burnham.
The horse received a kick late last week and was put on precautionary antibiotics on Saturday night and kept in Sunday. We think this has nothing to do with it, but I want to be thorough. On monday morning his bed was very tidy, very flat with few droppings. he would not eat his food, stood a the back of the box and kept pinning his ears back. on walking out he was very wobbly, almost like a drunk foal and spent alot of time twitching his muzzle back and forth and flicking his head (similar to a head shaker symptoms). his temperature was high and his respiration rate was pretty fast. he almost appears a little light sensitive and will look out but kind of stare and gaze rather than just looking. the vet I called referred him to the vet school with no idea of what was wrong with him.
he almost fell down the ramp on arrival at the vet school he was so discombobulated. The vets clustered around and scratched their heads. They did bring his temperature down and his breathing got better that day. they ran blood tests for everything and the only abnormality was a slightly low red blood cell count. he was urinating frequently, appearing to be in pain/struggling to balance. the urine is very dark and minimal in volume. he approaches his water alot but doesnt always drink it. he had very little hay but did eat a bit of hard feed. he would stand and it looked like he was flexing his pectorals almost, not in time, just one then the other then it woukd stopfor a while then start again.
tuesday (day 2) he is walking better - from a 3 to a 1 out of 4 scale of badness. they took bloods for west nile virus, equine herpes, epm and another rareish disease. they are due back tomorrow. they also xrayed his neck which appeared normal and they were going to measure the xrays today to check. he was still fidgeting with his muzzle lots, however not head flicking. he was still staring and gazing and trying to pee lots but what little came out was very dark. he had a little drink when I was there, but again was looking at the water more than drinking it.
Wednesday (today) the vet thinks he is getting better, however when I saw him this evening he is basically the same as yesterday but now is sometimes standing at the back of the box lifting his neck upright as high as he can then pinning his ears back. he seems to do this for a wee while then stop. he also is now standing on all fours and using the wall at his side to balance. he also did this with the stable door at his bum. when he did this I put my hand under his rug and he was having a wee wobble and shiver every now and again. the vets are talking about a ct scan tomorrow which I am going to push for.

Now for the wierdest bit (IMO)...
Last year, at the end of August this horse had a funny night in his stable. not wobbling around but a bit stary and off his food and head shaky. onething he did do was flex his pectorals. he was a bit better the next day then the day afterhe was perfect. I feel it was sympomatic of whats currently going on. there are too many things that are similar. he was stabled beside another of my horses who I now dont have, and that horse was fine. the only other thing was that in july/august both these horses were flicking their heads kind of headshakery, and it seemed to go away at the same time in both horses.
thats pretty much it. I apologise for my horrific grammar, I just want to get this out there and see if anyone has any answers!
 
sounds like maybe poisoning to me -id be testing soil,haylage ,grass,and plants and any trees he would have access to if he was mine. hope he gets better soon and you get an answer.x
 
It sounds like some form of toxic reaction but what are the vets actually doing to help him now, if he is not eating or drinking, struggling to pee he is shutting down, I would want him to at least have fluids given by iv to keep him hydrated and help flush out whatever is causing the problem before he gets colic to add to his problems.
 
I agree it sounds like some sort of reaction or poisoning, could it have been the antibiotics they gave him? I would push for the CT scan and check your fields for anything that hhe may have eaten, hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
If they don't know the cause then treat symtomatically. He needs to be on lots of fluids, get his kidneys working and suggest they catheterise him if he's in urinary retention (ie struggling to pee). This will have the added advantage of flushing toxins / poisions out of his system. Ask them to run a tox screen as well as all the other blood work.
The other possibility is that it's neurological so I'd also be pushing for the CT, ensuring they do a head CT.

Can't suggest much else at the moment but I hope he improves
 
Some of the symptoms sound very much like my friends Stallion.

The vets think it is toxic and possible from Mushrooms.

The story of my friends horse is too long to post. I will PM you to get your email address and send it to you
 
hi there, thanks very much for your replies. I am awaiting the vet calling me. To be honest at times it doesnt seem like they are doing very much. I have had to chase them up as they did not give me an evening update. I will ask about tox screens, catheterising and IV. I just cant understand why if it is necessary it hasnt been done already by the vet. Apparently he drank ok last night though. Acorns may be worth investigating. There are some oak trees around his field. Just need to wait for this phone to ring now. Thanks again.
 
a friends horse had viral meningitis a couple of months ago - was treated by Peter at Hirds vets in Preston. It sounds similar in that he had started being tense in the neck, not eating then was walking round the box leaning on the walls as he was unsteady and ended up bashing into the walls because his balance was going. Luckily her vet started him on antibiotics even while they were waiting for test results and he has made a full recovery - it is very rare in this country but more common in USA.
does this fit the symptoms?
http://www.merckmanuals.com/petheal...es/meningitis_and_encephalitis_in_horses.html
 
It sounds a bit like he is having seizures. I had a horse with "epilepsy" for years and he would show symptoms like this. No idea of the trigger for them.
 
Shadeyoak said:
http://www.horsecarecourses.com/hor...nd-what-to-do-if-you-suspect-equine-atyp.html
Ticks a lot of the boxes if I follow your horses symptoms :(
Click to expand...

We had atypical myopathy at my previous yards, we lost three horses in one week to it. The symptoms , although similar to op were not drawn out and came on very very quickly, each horse was fine one minute and dead within half an hour of the initial symptom. They were all still interested in food until they could no longer eat.
The intial symptom was a mild colic, within minutes they were unable to move as there muscles stopped working, it started by their hind legal almost going stiff like very bad tieing up, this then affected their ability to breath and they started to show choke like symptoms , very bad choke, they literally couldnt move or breath, the noise was terrible and will haunt me forever.
They were dripping in sweat and they bad muscle tremors all over but mainly in the chest and shoulders.
One pony struggled to breath so badly she was bleeding from her nose and eyes as she struggled.
It as the worst thing I have ever experienced.
The postmorterms showed that their livers had turned to liquid mush,the speed it came on and the time it took to kill them was unbelivable.
Also , their temperature s dropped very low and their gums went a very bright red colour as they were toxic.they also had funny smell from their nostrils, like pear drops.
 
foxy1 said:
Grass sickness? Atypical myopathy?
Click to expand...

I second atypical myopathy. My tb had it in August 2010. He started off wobbly, using the walls for balance. Urinating a lot which was brown colour. Drunk a lot, looked colicy and vacant. the following day he collapsed and couldn't stand, the vet wanted to give him 24 hours before we pts which i agreed and the following morning he was back up and on his feet and hasn't been down since. It did take about a week though before he strengthened up and stopped wobbling. Good luck!
 
Just to add his temp went up to 41, he was sweating and trembling through his muscles. It's rare for horses to survive AM but not impossible, my boy was lucky x
 
I spoke to the owner yesterday and her horse is improving. Her vets have been talking to my friends vets as there were similar signs and symptoms to that my friends stallion had.

I doubt that it is AM. It is still thought to be toxic.

The dark urine can be due to dehydration as the horse was not drinking much if not at all
 
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Has anyone checked his ears thoroughly and I mean thoroughly as problems with those can lead to balance problems which bring on the tremors and worry your horse is experiencing? Is there any chance he could have been cast that night and bashed his head/neck/withers against the walls as with a rug on you might not see any outward sign?

Good luck.
 
Chloral hydrate is neither a tetracycline nor even an antibiotic. Unlikely a horse has had access to something like this as it is not easy to get hold of. In the past it was sometimes used to sedate feral ponies/wild animals but rarely if ever used these days (at least in equine circles).
 
glenruby said:
Chloral hydrate is neither a tetracycline nor even an antibiotic. Unlikely a horse has had access to something like this as it is not easy to get hold of. In the past it was sometimes used to sedate feral ponies/wild animals but rarely if ever used these days (at least in equine circles).
Click to expand...

My apologies -- if you see the link you will see the third web page down says "And in all probability the drops he used were chloral hydrate. ... After the success of penicillin, people searched for other antibiotics in nature". This is what led me to think it was an antibiotic, I didn't have time to open the page up. Profuse apologies. http://www.bing.com/search?q=chloral+hydrate,+antibiotic&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC

There was something about tetracyclines also being linked to the word Chloral hydrate and as I had this antibiotic as a child and it saved my life (I was allergic to the penicillin they gave me) I thought I was on the right track with the antibiotic 'angle' again.

Once again, sorry, I should do my research a little better (was in a rush at lunch time).
I don't usually make mistakes like this. :(

Sorry if I led anyone up the garden path....
 
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Make sure you receive a copy of all blood reports.

Check that they have tested muscle enzymes which are CK (the main one, and the only one which is specific to muscles), AST and LDH (these 2 can be from muscle and/or liver damage).

I don't understand why whatever it is has come on so suddenly. I think I'd be retracing the recent history in case there's anything there to point to the cause. I'm sure you'll have done this, but really worth thinking of everything - change in grazing, feed, water, any travel, was the stabled repainted, was wood treated with anything, was he given a wormer or anything else, was there any particularly bad weather immediately preceding him becoming ill (eg very wet) etc.

But ataxia (losing balance) can be due to nerve damage and/or muscle damage, so really worth checking what those muscle enzymes are/were like. Anything above lab reference range is not normal.

If he will still eat some food, then I'd make sure he gets a good balancer like Blue Chip, which contains around 1mg of organic selenium (aka selplex or selenium yeast) per daily ration per 500kg horse. It may not make a lot of difference short term, but if by any chance his selenium levels have become low, it may help if there is muscle damage, but it can take several months to have maximum effect.

Hope you get to the bottom of things.

Sarah
 
The only time one of mine did frantic head tossing was when she was 4 years old and she had a retained baby tooth causing her a lot of pain. She carried on eating her hay, but more slowly than normal. Obviously that wouldn't cause the dark urine, but it's maybe worth thinking that there could be two things going on - maybe a damaged tooth from her kick, and something else?

Sarah
 
Sorry, just one more thought..... have you searched online for any adverse reactions to whatever antibiotics etc he was on? Might be worth doing on the offchance that it's something like that?
 
Have the vets ruled out ergot poisoning? It's a fungus that grows on certain grasses, from the symptoms it does sound a bit like nervous ergotism.

"Ergot poisoning occurs when favourable conditions allow parasitic fungi to infest the seedheads of certain grasses and produce ergot toxins. Fungal growth replaces much of the grass seed, which turns an uncharacteristic color and sometimes ends up as much as four times the normal size.

Two types of ergot poisoning have been described: nervous ergotism and gangrenous ergotism. Clinical signs of nervous ergotism include extreme nervous behavior and elevated body temperature, respiration rate and pulse rate. Animals exhibit a "sawhorse stance" and lean on stationary objects or each other for balance."

I'm not saying it is this but just one more thing to rule out. Good luck with getting to the bottom of it and vibes for a full recovery :)
 
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