My horse kicked out

[Curragh]

Hi This is my first post, but I often come on here lurking! Today I took my horse out hunting for the first time in a while, since taking him cubbing a few times. He has always behaved fine, but today he was stood quietly and some one's horse got zapped by a electric fence and it ran straight into his behind. My horse then kicked it and I was given a hunting whip and told to smack him to tell him off. I did as I was told and went home shortly after as I was worrying he would do it again. I'm not new to hunting and hunted from 11 years old until I went to abroad to work at 18, but have not done much since. I was made to feel so bad and I'm not even sure Ire bother to go again. No one would speak with me and I felt a complete out cast. Does any one have any advice? Thanks for reading

 

[Rebels]

Dont worry too much. my horse did something similiar when another horse ran flat out into the back of him when he was stood. its head actually nearly knocked me off, it hit him so hard. He kicked out and i was told to smack him which i didn't. i took him home after that but he has since hunted for another few years since. they made me feel awful and i was so paranoid after that so i put a green tail band back on and kept him to the back for a few hunts but he has been fine and i'm just extra aware when we are bunched up but he has never even lifted a leg. sometimes a horse just reacts before he thinks. if he hasnt done it before then he probably wont again.

 

[Haha]

That awful if your horse had just kicked out when a horse was close I could understand but when the other horse ran into you hard then no and I would have refused to hit him. Don't let it put you off try and find someone you know to go with so you won't feel so out of it? Good luck :grin:

 

[Curragh]

Thanks for your reply, my poor boy is not speaking to me and I feel like I let him down today. Ire stick a green ribbon in his tail if I go again?

 

[Rebels]

Go again. Its taken me years to get people to even say hello to me out hunting as i never knew anyone out and i was on a silly horse so they tended to ignore me!! Go out and smile, put a green ribbon on as a precaution so people give you more room and speak to everyone you can. Where about in the country are you? I'm down south.

 

[Curragh]

I'm in the South West, I always enjoyed hunting when I was young and I don't think I'm ready to give up just yet. Maybe Ire try a few Wednesday's its usually quieter then.

 

[cptrayes]

Go again. Put a red ribbon on him and then it's entirely their fault if they ram you and there is no reason whatsoever to be told to whip him.

I've come across this before with hunting and it makes me mad. The horse cannot connect being hit - after the time delay of you being handed a whip - with what he did. It's too late.

Can you try another pack? I have found they vary enormously in friendliness and the drag pack I hunt with now is amazing - everyone makes a point of talking to strangers to make them feel welcome, especially the guys in red coats. Such a change from other drag and fox packs I have been with.

Don't let them bully you into not going out again!

 

[muffinino]

TBH, if someone gave me a whip and told me to hit my horse with it, I'd tell them to p**s off!

I am not a soft touch at all and have no hesitation to smack my horse if I think he needs it as a reprimand or reminder to get a shift on etc. and never ride without one. That they had the time to hand the whip to you and tell you to do it means that the horse would not understand what it was being belted for; to reprimand a horse, or any animal, effectively, you have to do it immediately.

I'm not having a go at you for hitting him and I understand that the huge pressure to fit in with a new hunt. If my horse kicked another for no good reason, I would smack him at once, but it sounds like he had a slightly legitimate reason to kick out, more in shock than in anger. Mine has only ever kicked out once and he kicked the rider, not the horse, as she was that near. I didn't reprimand him because it was so out of character and she was so close I'm sure her horse either bit or stood on the heels of mine. He's never done it before or since, which is why I believe this.

Jusy try to get your horse out and about as much as possible to get him confident again. Is there someone you trust who would hack out with you so he can get used to having horses behind him again?
I understand how you feel as my horse went through a phase of being very jumpy with dogs due to being chased by a large pack of dogs that included a husky and a couple of sheepdogs amongst others. In fact, out hunting he performed the most fantastic 'leap of the goat' when a hound ran close to him just out of fear. I just rode him out as much as I could, made sure his bum was away from the hounds and gave him time; now he's back to his old self. In fact, last week we rescued a lost hound who followed us up the side of a mountain, right at his feet, and he was fine. If you take him again, try to keep his bum to a hedge or wall when standing around so nobody can run into you and put a red ribbon in his tail as a precaution.

 

[Curragh]

I'd like to go out with another pack, I just need to pluck up the courage to do it! If I put a red ribbon in his tail, wont I be even more of a out cast? It's not in his character to kick at all, he's a well manered boy and he's fantastic with the hounds too.

 

[marmalade76]

I would go out with another pack, for them to ignore you for your horse's quite understandable misdemeanour is, quite frankly, childish. They don't deserve your support.

Go out with a bloodhound pack, they will treat you like the paying customer that you are.

 

[cptrayes]

A red ribbon is just warning people that he has been known to kick. To be honest, if you are accepted as "one of them" and your horse has a red ribbon it wouldn't hardly be noticed. It won't make them any more unfriendly than they are already, but it will let you right off the hook if they barge you again and he kicks.

If you go with another pack, try to find a "buddy" by asking on here if anyone will "nanny" you. You aren't in my neck of the woods I don't think (Cheshire) or I would willingly introduce you to my lot.

I know exactly where you are coming from. I went with another drag pack in the past and no-one spoke to me until after they saw my horse jump a five foot hedge, then suddenly I was "one of them". I'm much happier with the pack I'm with now, where no-one looked down on me in spite of the nightmare fence-breaker and refuser that I was on last season.

Don't let them beat you. Hunting can be such good fun!

 

[chestnut cob]

Go again. Put a red ribbon on him and then it's entirely their fault if they ram you and there is no reason whatsoever to be told to whip him.

I'm sorry but this is rubbish. It is NOT someone else's fault if your horse kicks theirs. My horse has been known to kick so he wears a red ribbon and I've kept him to the back on busy days. On quieter days, people know us well enough to know that he's v unlikely to kick and I can be nearer to the front, but I still keep him out wide. My horse kicks so it is MY responsibility to keep him out of the way, simple. It sounds like the OP's horse did what most horses would do if something else crashed into the back of them so I'd put a red ribbon in it's tail and keep out of the way. A red ribbon does not absolve you of any responsibility though.

As for people not being friendly, I found that like with any social situation, if you smile, are friendly and make an effort to get to know people, they will reciprocate. But if this pack ignored you simply for this, they're not really worth going out with again. Most packs are fine as long as they can see you are trying to correct your horse's behaviour.

 

[levantosh]

I personally think it's a disgrace people telling you to hit your horse (you should of hit them!!!) It was there fault he kicked out in the first place!! All well and be it it was an accident. For a member of a hunt to tell you to smack him when we as hunters always say we are looking out for the welfare of our horses is rubbish (they should be made to feel awfull!!!). If your horse had kicked a hound or another horse on purpose then fair enough tell him off, but IMO it was the other riders fault for going too close to an electric tape in the first place.
And if members of that particular hunt make someone feel the way you did, change hunts, there are plenty of hunts with members and masters who are very welcoming.

 

[kit279]

It has been my personal experience that people out hunting can forget that ANY horse can kick. Just as any horse can buck or rear or nap and the fact that they have never done it before is no guarantee that they will never do it! I don't think you were at fault here, OP, but one of the things about hunting is to try to read the situation ahead, like driving on the motorway and watching not just the car in front but the cars 5 ahead as well. It's a skill, it will come - don't worry.

However, the OP has learnt the hard way that her horse can and will kick if provoked. Luckily for everyone (kicker and kickee particularly) no one was hurt. I don't think hitting the horse was the way to go, since you probably had to wait for a while to be told to hit him, get the whip and then hit him so from the horse's point of view, he had already forgtten about kicking and probably learnt nothing from it!

When I used to play polo, it was and is very important that the horses get used to being barged about in a ride-off and they MUST not kick or bite so you do give them a smack if they try it. However, you do it instanteously so they associate it with the fact that they kicked. It's not a case of thrashing the horse, it's a case of a tap down the side and a growl so that the horse knows that it's been naughty. That applies even if some divvy has crashed into you completely unprovoked, your polo pony must not retaliate. In the field, he can do what he likes but on the pitch, he must NOT.

My (admittedly) draghunt has always been friendly. When I've gone on my own and been standing around looking like a lemon, someone will always come and introduce themselves and ask if I'm on my own and engage me in conversation. Without that welcoming spirit, I probably wouldn't hunt. Vote with your feet, find a friendly welcoming hunt.

 

[MrWoof]

He kicked out - justifiably so from what you have said.
Do not worry - but put a Green rather than a red ribbon on next time. People do tend to respect Green rather more. Personally, I think that people should sort out their horses' manners at home before venturing forth with a Red Ribbon.
I used to qualify p-ps and after a scamper they used to "stamp" backwards. Someone said to me one day "your horse has just kicked out". He had not, he was just stamping. However, if she was that close, she was TOO close - and I told her so in no uncertain terms.
If anyone gets up your pine end or uses you as a braking wall, do not be afraid to tell them to back off.

 

[mastermax]

Hi Curragh, I notice you are in the South West and hunt Sats & Weds? Which hunt do you go with? We are in the South West possibly very close to you. You would be MORE than welcome to tag along with us (3) for some company. PM if you wish

 

[Herne]

There's an awful lot of tat being spouted on this thread in both directions.

First not of us who were not there do not know the circumstances of the original event. If the OP's horse just did a little fly kick out of surprise that is one thing, if it deliberately sized up the other horse and let fly at full power with deliberate intent then that is another and the appropriate reaction is different.

Second, as Chestnut Cob said, putting any colour of ribbon does NOT absolve you from the responsibility of your horse kicking. They serve as guidance to other riders to steer clear, but remember that other horses do not know what they mean. Out hunting there are many occasions on which horses end up in a big huddle unexpectedly. If you know your horse kicks, you should try to keep it well out of the way.

If it is a bad kicker (which it sounds is not the case with Curragh's horse), then it is not suitable for hunting. Sorry if that sounds tough, but that's the way it is. If you had a horse that just would not jump and you wanted to go show jumping, you would get a different horse. It's the same thing with hunting. You need a horse that is suited for the task - and with hunting part of the task is being in a group.

Also, people should not be surprised if they feel a bit ostracised if wearing a red ribbon. The other riders are simply doing what you put the thing on to tell them to do in the first place - giving you a wide birth so that your horse doesn't kick and they or their horse don't get kicked. As it is a bit difficult to have a conversation with someone who is ten yards away, you will necessarily get less conversation than you would without one. If you are a newbie, then of course this will make it more difficult you to break the ice. It's not cliqueyness or snobbishness, it's just plain common sense.

Third, it is ridiculous for people here to blame the rider or horse that got zapped by the electric fence as, again, we do not know the circumstances of the incident. For example, that horse might have been knocked on to the fence by another horse, or it might not have been visible.

I am not saying that Curragh or his/her horse were in the right or wrong. Could have been either. Depends on the circumstances.

My recommendation for Curragh would be to talk to the Hunt Secretary, explain the circumstances (all of them) and ask for his or her advice of what to do. That way, you will be seen to be doing the right thing and people should appreciate it.

 

[muffinino]

There's an awful lot of tat being spouted on this thread in both directions.

First not of us who were not there do not know the circumstances of the original event. If the OP's horse just did a little fly kick out of surprise that is one thing, if it deliberately sized up the other horse and let fly at full power with deliberate intent then that is another and the appropriate reaction is different.

Second, as Chestnut Cob said, putting any colour of ribbon does NOT absolve you from the responsibility of your horse kicking. They serve as guidance to other riders to steer clear, but remember that other horses do not know what they mean. Out hunting there are many occasions on which horses end up in a big huddle unexpectedly. If you know your horse kicks, you should try to keep it well out of the way.

If it is a bad kicker (which it sounds is not the case with Curragh's horse), then it is not suitable for hunting. Sorry if that sounds tough, but that's the way it is. If you had a horse that just would not jump and you wanted to go show jumping, you would get a different horse. It's the same thing with hunting. You need a horse that is suited for the task - and with hunting part of the task is being in a group.

Also, people should not be surprised if they feel a bit ostracised if wearing a red ribbon. The other riders are simply doing what you put the thing on to tell them to do in the first place - giving you a wide birth so that your horse doesn't kick and they or their horse don't get kicked. As it is a bit difficult to have a conversation with someone who is ten yards away, you will necessarily get less conversation than you would without one. If you are a newbie, then of course this will make it more difficult you to break the ice. It's not cliqueyness or snobbishness, it's just plain common sense.

Third, it is ridiculous for people here to blame the rider or horse that got zapped by the electric fence as, again, we do not know the circumstances of the incident. For example, that horse might have been knocked on to the fence by another horse, or it might not have been visible.

I am not saying that Curragh or his/her horse were in the right or wrong. Could have been either. Depends on the circumstances.

My recommendation for Curragh would be to talk to the Hunt Secretary, explain the circumstances (all of them) and ask for his or her advice of what to do. That way, you will be seen to be doing the right thing and people should appreciate it.

I think some of what you've just spouted is a lot of tat, though there was some sense there, too
We can only go by what OP has told us; yes, we don't know 100% what happened but OP said it went that way, so we have advised appropriately. She said her horse kicked out of shock, we have taken that as the truth. In no way has she said that the horse has eyed another up and specifically stated that it was a one off.

No, a red or green ribbon does not absolve you - did anybody say that it did? But at least it is a warning to others and I advised her use one only as a precaution until her horse has settled back into trusting others behind. She is worried that it may make the horse nervous, therefore it is sensible to warn others and get the horse used to having horses behind it again - more than likely, it will not remember what happened and not be bothered anyway. But I agree with the poster who said about the green rinbbon; good idea as it doesn't carry the stigma of a red one.

 

[Curragh]

Thanks for all your replys and opinions! Think I will use a green ribbon and keep him out the back for a while. If he behaves then Ire carry on hunting, if not I wont hunt him again.

 

[millitiger]

i would definitely try a different pack if you can!

my horse never kicks even when people run into him but i still turn around and tell people to get off his tail if they are really close- any horse can and will kick if provoked enough

 

[corran]

I know how you feel my mare has only ever kicked out once when somebody tryed to stop using her bottom to do it. I now always wear a ribbon I know it does not excuse bad manners in a horse but it gives people fair warning!!!

 

[cptrayes]

I someone else ran their horse into my horse's backside when he was wearing a red ribbon and then told me to beat him, your ears would drop off if you heard what my reply would be!

 

[JenHunt]

In my opinion your horse kicked out of the shock of someone running into him. It sounds like its not his nature, and out of character.

I also think that the folk who handed you a crop to smack him were out of order. IMHO they can ask you to reprimand your own horse, and at that point you can politely decline and say that it is out of character and probably due to someone running into him.

If they wish to take it further then that's up to them. You could then, if you wished speak to the secretary and explain your point of view. at least then you've been seen to do the right thing and not put your conscience in turmoil.

 

[RunToEarth]

QR-
Read a couple of replies and I think there is a bit of rubbish in the thread.
Your horse was put in a situation where he kicked out and you couldn't have done anything to prevent it. Something very similar happened to me the other day, I was stood, someone's horse spooked and kicked out, very luckily just caught my stirrup.
Sometimes it is no ones fault, people just look for blame, in this case I would go with another hunt, yours sounds most unwelcoming.
I believe if your horse kicks and has a red ribbon you should make a concious effort to keep it at the back of the field and out of harms way, I also believe everyone in the field has a responsibility to keep their horses noses out of other horses bottoms, keep them away from a position where they could get booted, I also believe no one should use horse's bottoms as a form of brakes without expecting to get kicked.
It boils down to common sense and manners, the OP did nothing wrong and I am quite upset was treated that way by fellow hunters. I hope you recieve a better reception next time. The general feeling is if you wear a red ribbon the field will expect you to be at the back, if you wear a green ribbon it may be better, assuming he doesn't usually kick in the field.

 

[Herne]

@ Mulledinvino

<< we don't know 100% what happened but OP said it went that way, so we have advised appropriately>>

Actually we have very little information, other than it was “not in his character”. So, as I said, we don’t know the appropriateness of the advice.

<< She said her horse kicked out of shock…>>

No s/he didn’t.

<<… we have taken that as the truth>>

Seeing as you imagined it, that’s an interesting policy…


<<In no way has she said that the horse has eyed another up>>

Nor did s/he say that it didn’t. All we know is that it kicked. Not how. You are assuming.


<<and specifically stated that it was a one off.>>

“Out of character”. Not necessarily the same thing at all.


<< No, a red or green ribbon does not absolve you - did anybody say that it did?>>

What CPtrayes wrote can certainly be interpreted that way.

Are you actually reading the same thread as the rest of us?



As I said before, s/he would be best to discuss the matter with the Hunt Secretary. The Sec can advise on what colour ribbon s/he should use. If s/he simply chooses green and people think that s/he should have chosen red, then this could make things worse. If s/he asks the Sec for advice, s/he can’t go wrong.


Also, I suspect that the people saying “change hunts” are probably also over-reacting. We don’t know what the Hunt Hierarchy thought of the incident. They might have the same opinion of the whip-giver as everyone seems to on here. We don’t know who that was. If it was one of the Masters (or a Hunt Sec) for example, then that’s one thing, but if it was jus A.N. Other in the field, then that’s different.