My horse looks like an RSPCA case....

i agree, i would never do this to my horse, yes i carry a stick on all of them, and if they do somehting naughty i give them one sharp smack and that is it, i have never in any circumstance marked any of my horses from beating them with a whip/stick whatever and i thi this is totally unacceptable and someone smashes you around the backside with a big stick.........
and yes i have a lot of experience with a very nappy horse that had a serious behavioural problem, she now hacks out good as gold, taken a lot of time and patience, and i've never beaten her, she was scared, beating her reinforces the behaviour...some people don't understand basic psychology of animals or kids...basically the same!hehe
 
Not all horses who nap are scared!

We had a pony at the RS who was a sod at times and if he knew he could take advantage of a kid he would, needed one of us to get on him and give him what for a few times

lil bugger...miss him though!
 
I have a nappy 6 y.o. and ALWAYS take a stick and usually end up using it! He has plenty of attitude shall we say and tries it on most times we go out. The only time I didn't have a stick (I lent it to someone at a show) and I was trying the softly softly approach he ended up rearing and put in a buck for good measure! The short sharp shock of the stick works far better for my horse than spending ages p**sing around
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i think some members of this forum will take any opportunity to have a go at another.

In my opinion when you come across a problem like this you should deal with the situation. You were patient to start, and did the right thing to remind your horse that even tho she is bigger, you are still the boss, for saftey more than anything. i think thats where a lot of people go wrong, they let their horse walk, all over them. if you dont deal with the situation then it will only happen again and again.

i think you did the right thing! but instead take a whip, i doubt it will happen again!
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Exactly! Until you experience, as i have, a horse that naps for the sake of not going any further, it is easy to criticise.

I will not allow any horse to nap and will use a whip as necessary to nip it in the bud as necessary, if I think it is taking the mickey and trying to avoid working.

It is about knowing your horse.

I have one who would get a big smack for taking the mickey, another who would need a stroke on the neck and a calm voice to give him confidence and another who would need a gentle smack followed by praise.

I also have a pony that I would only use my voice and hand ( never a smack) to encourage as anything else would send her AWOL through fear.

It really depends on the horse.
 
don't worry about it, I used to feel guilty when hitting my previous horse until he need jabs for a root tooth infection and we couldn't get the needles through his bum
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vet said he had skin like a rhino
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we had to get my mates dad to jab him in the end as he was used to injecting cows
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Sorry, dont agree with doing this. To leave big stick marks on her backside isn't the way to go IMO. I would have just got off and calmly walked her over it. Us humans are NOT horses, we do no SEE what horses see or THINK like they do. She may have had a good reason for not moving on, who knows?! It sounds like you lost the plot and beat the crap out of her which obviously should not happen.

But yes, unfortunately all of us lose it a bit sometimes. Im sure all of us have done something in anger which we regret. That's life, we learn from it.

Take a whip next time but dont beat her up with it. No matter what the "horse-beaters - they say horse obeys" on this forum say, a whip is NOT to be abused! There is a BIG difference between a reminder and full on pelting.

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completely agree MM
 
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Sorry, dont agree with doing this. To leave big stick marks on her backside isn't the way to go IMO. I would have just got off and calmly walked her over it. Us humans are NOT horses, we do no SEE what horses see or THINK like they do. She may have had a good reason for not moving on, who knows?! It sounds like you lost the plot and beat the crap out of her which obviously should not happen.

But yes, unfortunately all of us lose it a bit sometimes. Im sure all of us have done something in anger which we regret. That's life, we learn from it.

Take a whip next time but dont beat her up with it. No matter what the "horse-beaters - they say horse obeys" on this forum say, a whip is NOT to be abused! There is a BIG difference between a reminder and full on pelting.

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completely agree MM

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Me too.

What I don't understand is how your horse is going to think that going through water is a good thing to do, when she got walloped and walloped the last time. She was obviously worried about it yet your response was to smack her. There is nothing wrong with leading a horse through on foot, or maybe trying some sideways movement first to get her moving initially and then trying again. Or perhaps following a more experienced horse through the water.

But smacking her like that will only serve to reinforce her fears that it really was something to be frightened of, for you to act in that manner.

I couldn't care less if I am perceived as a bunny/tree hugger - I'd much rather be one of those than someone who smacks my horse so hard it has weals on it. We choose to ride our horses, they have no choice in the matter. The least we can do is have a look at life from their view surely?
 
I don't really agree with the walloping it all the time ect, but just wanted to say..Like I said, before, when Lacey was being very uncoperative, I gave her a sharp smack with a schooling whip (without taking my hand off the reins) which left a mark, and I honestly didn't beat her.
 
I had a similar 'issue' with my old horse. I had taken him on a sponsored ride with some friends and being around so many other horses simply blew his mind, he was crazy! We eventually went sideways into a tree and he looked like a blood bath with blood mixed with sweat. I made the decision to go home before one or other of us had a serious accident. Of course he didn;t want to leave the others and planted himself on the spot, he was rearing, plunging, leaping, going straight towards a big ditch, spinning round etc. The way I saw it I had two options - getting off or getting him moving. I honestly thought if I got off I'd have lost him so I made the decision I simply had to get him concentrating on me instead of the other horses and he got a few very heft wallops. It wasn't something I was proud of or had done before or since but I honestly believe without it, the incident would have had a nasty ending. He eventually decided to listen and we bounced home and I washed off the blood to find a tiny cut to his side from the tree. He was none the worse for his lesson and never played up again.
 
Sounds like she deserved a few cracks to me. Good on you for not teaching her that everytime shes naughty, your going to get off and make life easier for her. Maybe now she will learn to respect your leg aids a bit more.
 
Sounds as if you gave her plenty of warning and opportunity NOT to be a sod before you used the stick - don't really see the problem although I can understand you feeling bad about it.

A couple of years ago, I used to teach with a little pony (bout 12hh) who was incredibly lazy and really dead to the leg - he also used to trot then suddenly stop and put his head down to ditch little ones. In canter he would buck twice then stop so they fell off... it was blatant laziness and naughtiness - he wasn't in pain or scared. One day I got so mad at him, I gave him a smack with a schoolin stick - kinda misjudged the force and it left a mark
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However he was good as gold with his rider for the rest of the lesson and didn't put a foot wrong all day after that.

I felt bloomin awful about it because I just lost my temper which you should never do with horses, but on the other hand, it clearly did him some good. Sometimes they do just take the p.
 
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I can understand that she was testing you etc but i dont agree with smacking with a stick to the degree that it leaves marks (MY PERSONAL OPINION) /quote]

sorry but i also find that a bit disturbing that she was hit that hard to leave marks.
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First of all there is nothing wrong with getting off the horse & leading it, some youngsters require that in the early days. The problem arises if you have a bad mannered horse who is likely to get away from you or wont stand to be mounted afterwards. Also this comment "we got back home and she was rubbing her head up and down my back, then asking for a wither scratch, then dangling her leg in the air" shows the mare is leader here. No horse should invade your space without being invited. When you allow a horse to rub up against you like that he is in control & the chances are you will be pushed away, thereby re-inforcing the horses higher posistion in the relationship. Horses are led by instincts which dont include oh I will take the p out of you today. They are a herd animal therefore to survive they have to work as a herd. Part of being dominate is to control the ground space, when they rub up against you because of their strength invaribly they will move you, lesson learnt. Begging for food, I have taught mine that, but they only got it when I asked them not when they did so they soon learnt not to bother unless they were asked. You have to access each situation & sometimes it is safer to get off then fight with 1/2 a ton of horse. It is very rare for a horse to plant itself except when assessing danger, then it will stop & almost freeze while it takes stock of its surroundings. The reason it is not natural for the horse to stay still ie plant themselves to give us humans a hard time is because they are a prey animal therefore it is safer to be on the move. There is a very interesting article in H&R which explains it much better. Humans need to stop putting human traits onto animals because they do not think like us. It has nothing to do with hugging trees, it has to do with understanding how an animal interacts with its own kind. One reason why you dont feed your dog before feeding yourself because the leader always feeds 1st. Why you should lead the way horse or dog should follow because that is what happens in their world, the leader leads. I dont know what happened to this mare, she may well of heard something that she was not sure about, who knows, but one thing is certain it is highly unlikely she was taking the p out of you & thought oh lets play ackward, I quiet like getting thumped in the sides, & what fun to have a smack with a twig. Of course we have to reinforce our leg aids at times, when they have not listened or mistaken what we have asked for. Of course it is frustrating for us when our horses wont play ball, but more often then not it is the fault of the human whether it be present or past. What I will say is my horses are not permitted to use me as a scratching post!
 
Just want to give all you pro "get off and lead" guys a reality check

my mum used to do that with our fantastic little horse Paddy, he was a little sh*t, she was scared of him, but he was a fantastic eventer/show jumper/hunter.

she got off and lead him over a foot and mouth disinfectant tray, he panicked, ran, got hit my a car and broke his leg and had to be shot.

PLEASE DO NOT GET OF AND LEAD YOUR HORSES PAST THINGS PEOPLE!!!!!

It's not safe AT ALL!!!


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How do you get your horse in from the field? What do you do when you are at a show, surely you dont ride the horse from the moment it comes off the lorry or trailer? A horse is used to people being on the ground & for some they find more confident this way. A person can just as easliy become unseated as loose a horse while trying to lead. I also stated "The problem arises if you have a bad mannered horse who is likely to get away from you or wont stand to be mounted afterwards" because on the whole that is the case. A horse will want to flee anything that it considers a threat, & some just take more courage from a person leading rather then riding. I had a mare who was just this way, she would go anywhere with me leading, but she did not have the same confidence to start with, that took time (she was only rising 5). My sisters horse on the otherhand is a bad mannered bargy mare (taught by humans to be so) & so no you would not be safe trying to lead her. The fact is that to say you teach a horse that they have won just because you get off & led is rubbish. This is taken from http://www.horsemagazine.com/CLINIC/M/MCMIKEN_DONALD/mcmiken_part4.htm. Never to lose one's temper with the horse is a good precept and an excellent habit- to lose one's temper is unreasonable and makes one do things one can but afterwards regret. When a horse shows fright of some object and refuses to go near it, one must make him feel that he has nothing to fear, and the more especially so if the horse be a high-couraged one - the rider will do well to walk up to such an object himself and touch it, subsequently to lead the horse quietly up to it. Those riders who force the horse by the use of the whip will only increase his terror, for he will imagine that the pain he feels is inflicted upon him by the object that frightens him.(horsemanship is by the cavalry commander Xenophon 432BC yep thats right a quote from 432BC.

These people who think this way have spent years studying horses. How many people here actually just spend time watching their horses? Some of it is common sense but only when you understand how they think/communicate. There are plenty of old school people who state never get off your horse as you are safer to stay on board. That is why you need to know your horse. When I had to take my youngster over a bridge she refused to take the lead of the other horse who she shared a paddock with. I could have battled with her all day, but in the end instead of beating her & both of us getting stressed I got off. I made sure all was secure, took the reins & led her over, yes she was stuck to me like glue & if she could of she would have had a piggyback over that bridge. The fact is she followed me without any stress & stood while I mounted the other side, next time with a bit of coaxing she walked over with the other horses lead. If I had to of got off again I would have. I spend hours with mine working them from the ground, does not make me a tree hugger or a believer in any particular method. I do it because years ago I listened to the die hards that horses who play up are being naughty. When in fact my mare was in pain, despite having all the usual checks, her muscel damage went undetected. Most of the time they are trying to tell you something, it is up to you whether you listen to them or not!!
 
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Just want to give all you pro "get off and lead" guys a reality check

my mum used to do that with our fantastic little horse Paddy, he was a little sh*t, she was scared of him, but he was a fantastic eventer/show jumper/hunter.

she got off and lead him over a foot and mouth disinfectant tray, he panicked, ran, got hit my a car and broke his leg and had to be shot.

PLEASE DO NOT GET OF AND LEAD YOUR HORSES PAST THINGS PEOPLE!!!!!

It's not safe AT ALL!!!


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So because that happened to your mum its not safe at all!!! Thats just silly! You've already said your Mum was scared of this horse. It was obviously a freak accident. One that could happen to any of us while leading although I'm one of those that rarely lets go for anything
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there is absolutely no need to leave marks on a horse from a stick. And its better to carry a crop and never need it then to need it and not have it!

And for those of you who say its safer to stay onboard, well bully for you, one of my lot hates tractors, will not go near them and if we have one coming towards us he turns into a terrified lunatic with bucking rearimng and plunging. And yes its genuine terrror, ive had this pony long enough to know the difference between playing up and real terror. however if i get off and stand at his head he will stand as good as gold as it goes past. now someone tell me that its safer to sit on a rearing, bucking, plunging terrified horse in traffic then it is to get off and stand at his head when it will stand still?

I'll get off and lead him if i have to rather then get into a fight that i cant win.
he is very good at planting himself as well, normaly because he doesnt want to go any further, moving him sideways or backwards will help.

Oh and BB2 if you never get off and lead then how do you do gates? not all gates are do able from horseback so someone has to get off and open the gate, wait for all the others to go through then close the gate again. if you dont do routes that involve gates where you have to get off then your realy missing out!
 
And if she'd stayed on board? Maybe he'd have panicked, bolted, got hit by a car and they'd both have been killed?

I don't think thats a solid argument for not leading - accidents can happen from any situation.
 
I agree with what you've said.

Also I truely don't believe horses look at these situations in terms of winning or loosing and i don't believe that getting off a horse to lead it past something means it has won. What exactly has it won? It's still had to do what you've asked of it, you just weren't on it's back.
 
Haven't ploughed through the posts but hopefully what you have learnt from this is carry a proper whip with you, then you won't mark your horse painfully in future and you will able to use proper aids to get through any unexpected situations. Carrying a proper whip takes no effort and I find it hard to understand why people with don't just do it.

Rules for hacking - expect the unexpected to happen and go out in kit and tack to allow you to handle those situations.
 
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Horses are led by instincts which dont include oh I will take the p out of you today

You have obviously never came across a pony like mine when i first got him!

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however if i get off and stand at his head he will stand as good as gold as it goes past.

He cant be that bloody scared then!
 
vieshot, you come and see him then, when a horse is shaking with terror then he is bloody scared and not takeing the p. he just trusts me enough that when im standing at his head nothing is going to hurt him
 
vieshot Unfortunately there are far too many people who think like you, all I can say is hope you come back as a horse & someone with your attitude as the owner. Of course you are entitled to this opinion but it is very narrow minded. Funny how society now states that children should not be smacked when they have a better understanding of what is being asked, but it is thought nothing to give an animal a bloody good hiding. And I am not referring to this poster, it is common practice for humans to loose their temper & use unnecessary force. There are a lot more people who have forgotten more then you will ever learn that would totally disagree with your statements;
Horses are led by instincts which don’t include oh I will take the p out of you today

You have obviously never came across a pony like mine when i first got him!
Explain, why would a horse or pony deliberately put itself in a situation that would result in a telling off? Bear in mind what has already been stated that they live by instinct & do not have the same thought patterns as humans.

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however if i get off and stand at his head he will stand as good as gold as it goes past.

He cant be that bloody scared then! And how do you qualify that? So he will stand because he feels safer with his owner by his head? But you insist he is not scared, so explain? My daughter wont go into a shop on her own because she is shy & lacks confidence, but she will go into that shop if I am with her, what you are saying is that she is taking the p out of me!! Get real humans go through situations like that all the time, I am sure they would appreciate someone telling them they are making it up & it is all in their head!
 
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