My horse was attacked by her stable mate. Im now at loss

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MissMay

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I have a very sweet 14 year old mare(Ria) who I pony pen with 2 others at home. One is a livery, 18 year old mare (Molly) who is her best friend and JP a 3year old gelding.
I have used this arrangement the last 4 years with the two mares and the gelding was introduced in September with no problems. ITs a very large pen with plenty of room, ad lib hay and water.

At the start of the year Molly was put on a strict weight loss programme, and was coming back to work after a long time off. she thrived off hunting but became unsafe to hunt she was too eager and would just charge with no breaks despite several bit changes. About christmas time we noticed she started to get a bit more dominating with the other horses moving them off the haybale regularly.
Neither the other two would challange her and move off when she asks. she is very attached to both. However two weeks ago she began getting a bit nasty they would have kick marks but nothing that sparked warning signs.
On Sunday last, i noticed JP was lame so removed him down to the arena (I am over loaded in the stables currently) and found a nasty cut on his hock that has caused large swelling.
On Monday however Molly seemed to turn savage, she attacked Ria kicking her and lashing out. The vet was called immediatly as she could not walk, she has a suspected fractured pelvis a HUGE hematoma (at least a foot by a foot) a sliced hock which is infected, possibly damaged her back as she is cocking her neck at an unusual angle. She is also damaged in her reproductive tract and her vulva is sliced up.

I have moved Ria down to the stables with JP (Rapidly got rid of two horses) and she is on box rest for 1month at least possibly more. the vet left saying he hopes she will walk again :O

However Molly has gone CRAZY she is now penned alone for fear of risking anything she is trying to kick down gates and walls, to the point where I cant find anyone to go in to her she is so dangerous. Iv no idea what to do as she is not mine, but this personality flip has worried me!!

Cupcakes for those who got this far!!
 
I am very sorry but the only time I have ever heard of a personality change like this it has been a brain tumor :-(

The only other idea I have is related to the diet she was on - is it possible she just got very food protective? I really would not have thought this would have cause her to quite frankly savage your other pony though.

Best of luck and wishes x
 
do they go out or are they in 24/7?

my old mare, 28 has become quite aggressive lately, biting and kicking my boy and has almost kicked me twice! but i'm sure its just where she is hungry, there is no grass and she does it when I put the hay out but once she's started munching she is happy to share with the boy!

could molly be hungry? maybe what she's getting isn't filling her enough? esp if she's on a diet?
 
Can't advise but wanted to say I hope Ria gets well very quickly xx Sending healing thoughts to you both.

Are you able to contact Molly's owner? Are you able to get food and water in to her? I think I would call the vets and ask their advice.
 
I'd be asking the vet to check Molly's hormones and ovaries - problems here can cause mares to suddenly become very aggressive.
 
Thanks for all the replies!!
They are in at the moment but get out to be exercised a large amount and the pen is a huge converted beef shed which allows them plenty of movement. They get a round bale of hay as often as they need it so are not food short.

I have contacted the owners to say Im not handling her and they will have to come deal with her as usually I look after 9 horses including Molly. But to say they are usless is an understatement they are coming down to see her tomorrow for the first time since this has happened.

I am thinking its possibly a brain tumour, also as long as I know her (8 years) she has had a large lump on her jaw bone which I think is a tumour, however, her owners are the type who think if you ignore something bad it wont be true.

Im now left in a predicament where Iv two horses on box rest and one crazy mare on her own Im genuinely scared she is going to kill hersel. But as she is not mine I dont really know what to do Iv made her owners aware of the problem, but I dont think this is enough.

Also has anyone any positive stories for a mare like my poor girl? At best she is going to have permamently crinkled skin and at worse she wont be ridden.
Also is it irrational of me to think that had it been my horse I would have offered the vet bills??!
 
I think if she's a danger to herself I would tell the owners they either come now or you will call the vet to come and sedate the mare and they will recieve the bill.
They then get the choice of removing the mare from your yard within 24 hours or having the vet come and give an opinion on ? brain tumour etc
 
I hope your horse recovers soon, I think I would also be thinking a tumour for a horse to change in character that much there is definitely something wrong there.

I also agree with you though, I would not be handling that horse for fear that it may do damage to yourself, I think I would be seriously thinking about PTS if that was my horse, unless some form of medication could be given if it were a cushionings tumour.

I think if it were me and your horse was mine, I would be sending Molly's owners the vet bill, as there horse has hurt yours, therefore in my opinion they should be paying for the bill.
 
When my horse was out on loan she kicked one of the loaner's horses and broke its leg. it wasn't insured so the loaner asked if we would go halves on the vet's bills and we did. I guess you can't anthropomorphise - not my fault my pony did what she did (normally very well mannered) and not your livery's fault either, but a bit of good will goes a long way. Might be worth asking especially if you feel that would go some way to even things out and they are stressed and unsure what to do.

I hope your mare recovers soon. x
 
I think she probably needs turning out to graze with another horse, she's been on a diet so probably food possessive, them she's had her companions taken away. Can she easily see the other horses?
 
MissMay said:
I have used this arrangement the last 4 years with the two mares and the gelding was introduced in September with no problems.

so this could beher first season since the gelding has been introduced?, maybe its a hormonal problem?

At the start of the year Molly was put on a strict weight loss programme,


then you say they have ad lib hay???

However two weeks ago she began getting a bit nasty they would have kick marks but nothing that sparked warning signs.

kick marks are your warning sign surely?

and you as YM/YO left them together, i dont think you can expect the owner to pay towards treatment, the horse is a livery and you are responsible for leaving her with the others even after they had kick marks.
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Sorry she was on a diet at the start of the year however when she started intensively hunting she was able to keep her weight in check and eat similar to others. The diet she is currently on is our own hay and a scoop of basic coarse mix to mix her supplements in with.

At the moment no she cannot see other horses but can hear them, the injured horses are in the stables beside my house whilst she is in a large beef shed on the yard, I am also not willing to out anything up with her. She is due to go out to the field this weekend but her owners only own her and Im not willing to have a third horse injured from her. I also would not feel safe going in to the field with her in it.

I did not think the small scrapes were indications no as if i removed horses every time they had a few cuts from bickering everything would be kept fully seperate, there were no malicious marks on her prior to her turning savage.

Her owners dont actually seem to care...... I got one text saying "oh god sorry, that really bad of her. Hopefully next weekend she will be better".
I have the vet coming on Monday to see about an internal scope and X-ray on ria and also to get her hock drained so I will ask him what he thinks. Personally if she was mine I would be very very dubious of her
 
Also sounds to me that Molly is not enjoying her 'retirement' from being an active hunter, and is taking our her frustrations on her stable mates......
 
I agree in her not enjoying slowing down she was hunting approxiamtely 3times a week and now is ridden about 5 I think and hunter trialing. She is also only back the last year after two years off from tendon injuries.

Im hoping her to get her X ray on Monday of her pelvis and spine which I am now concerned about. Alot of the initial swelling is going down now its the hematoma and cuts whihc are very time consuming to clean each one individually as they are all over her body.
 
Jools2345 said:
MissMay said:
I have used this arrangement the last 4 years with the two mares and the gelding was introduced in September with no problems.

so this could beher first season since the gelding has been introduced?, maybe its a hormonal problem?

At the start of the year Molly was put on a strict weight loss programme,


then you say they have ad lib hay???

However two weeks ago she began getting a bit nasty they would have kick marks but nothing that sparked warning signs.

kick marks are your warning sign surely?

and you as YM/YO left them together, i dont think you can expect the owner to pay towards treatment, the horse is a livery and you are responsible for leaving her with the others even after they had kick marks.
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Sorry but I agree with this. You decided where to put the horses. In all the almost 40 yrs I've been keeping horses, I can only remember a couple of times when any have come in with kick/bite marks. I would be very concerned if it happened frequently and split them up.

As for what to do now, I would stop the basic mix - you certainly don't need a whole scoopful to put supplements in - no wonder she needed a diet. Give her a few soaked grassnuts, if you really must but I'd be looking carefully at the supplements. I've know mares change charcter completely with different supplements.

I do hope Rhia makes a good recovery.
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With Molly and Rhia they are unfortunately "glued at the hip" however Molly is MUCH more dominant then Rhia and has always thrown the odd bite to her field mates. As regards there stabling its a beef shed which fits 48 bullocks which have comfortabley kept 3 horses in every year due to grass restraints.
With her feed Im not in charge of that but will be telling them to quit it altogether she is on a seaweed mix (they are not sure why but were recommended it) and biotin as well. Her owners however dont seem to care, I told them about the incident after it happened and that I would not be handling her mare any more, and they are yet to come down to her. Obviously I am making sure she is fed and watered but regarding taking her out and stuff whihc I used to do daily I have stopped as I think she is a liability to herself and others.

Ria is looking a little bit perkier today but her hock as really started oozing its a very deep thin slice which the vet could not stitch due its location. She has finally let me get the dried blood off most of her however she still wont really let me clean her up fully. The hematoma has started filling down her leg which the vet said would happen.

At the moment she is on sachets to take down swelling and an antibiotic, I am cleaning all her cuts daily and putting cream on them and cold hosing the swelling. I do bring her out for a little graze as I am doing this so she is a bit more compliant. Is there any thing else I can do?
 
Afraid I take a very firm view on aggressive horses. But then I'm someone whose mare was killed (witnessed attack) by another mare. Veterinary examination of the aggressive horse found no sign of ovarian cysts.

Would never turn out with horse known to be aggressive, and personally would want horse removed from my care. Too much of a liability.
 
MissMay said:
Also is it irrational of me to think that had it been my horse I would have offered the vet bills??!
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Yes I'm sorry to say it is. It's really irrelevant what the owners said or what they have or haven't done as it sounds like you had care and control of where every horse was kept and with who. Besides the nature of livery stables is that people keeping horses at them do so at their own risk. You did have some inkling something was going on so it might have been better to spend time watching their behaviour to see what changes were going on within their little herd.

It's always unfortunate when a horse gets injured and I hope she recovers well. Often injuries look more horrific than they actually are so I'm sure she'll be fine in time.
 
MissMay said:
As regards there stabling its a beef shed which fits 48 bullocks which have comfortabley kept 3 horses in every year due to grass restraints.
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Is there no way that you can split the beef shed up? Surely you don't have all 48 bullocks in together. Whenever I've seen a similar arrangement, there have been moveable 'gates' which can be used in different configurations to separate animals.
 
Mrs B said:
I'd be asking the vet to check Molly's hormones and ovaries - problems here can cause mares to suddenly become very aggressive.
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I would ask for this too. My lovely, quiet, placid mare turned into an aggressive lunatic several years ago, but a month on regumate soon had her back to normal. That would be my first port of call.
 
I'd want the aggressive mare off my property pretty darn quickly. Hope your girl comes right, her injuries sound horrific :( It would be polite of her owners to offer money for bills, but not necessarily legally correct, especially when you've said the aggressive one has been dominant for a while.
 
How awful for you to have your horse injured in this way, and another needing treatment too. It does sound like the older mare could have a tumour, brain or ovary??
I think you need to write to the owner(s) stating what has happened and that you believe their horse to be in need of veterinary attention. Politely but bluntly say that if they do not arrange for their horse to be checked by a vet then you will need them to remove their horse from your yard as it is no longer safe for you (or your staff?) to offer the level of care you have previously provided and in that case you may also need to involve the RSPCA.
Sorry, but as owners they need to face up to their responsibility, and they certainly haven't appreciated how lucky they have been to have such a caring YM in charge of their animal. Best of luck for a happy outcome for all humans and horses involved.
 
I'm not going to comment on possible tumours or whatever but it sounds as if this mare has been thoroughly messed around just recently.

An addition to the well established pairing.
You say she was on a strict diet at the beginning of the year, but it's still only April and now there's no diet.

How strict was it?
Was it just a case of stopping the food suddenly?
Do you think she knows why she wasn't getting much food? Or whether it might happen again tomorrow, next week ect.

Then there was the hunting, after two years off?
But now the hunting has stopped and she is ridden 5 times a week, by whom?
Because you are saying the owners are not around?

If it's not a physical cause, I think maybe the management of her has sent her nuts.
Over a short time scale she has had a lot of changes. And the kind of changes that a horse can get very worried about.
 
If she can't see other horses,I think this is the most major problem.
Mine would be hard to handle if they couldn't see other horses at all, day in day out. Can she have a window or some way of seeing other horses?
She could have an injury herself causing her pain.
U wouldn't pen adult horses in even a large barn all winter together, horses have very different personal space requirements to cattle. If you need to use this barn again I would split it up so each horse has their own space.
 
I had a mare once that had always been a bit bossy and had attacked a pony that had got into her stable due to the pony's owner not closing the connecting door properly. As the pony had invaded her space we didn't really deal with it at that point but she then attacked her stable mate that she had been with for years and she actually bit her lip off and we had to have the vet to stitch it back on. At that point we realised there was definitely a problem that needed sorting. It turned out with her to be a hormone imbalance which was corrected by putting her in foal. This did work but obviously isn't an option everyone can take. If the mare is now isolated from other horses then I am not surprised she is kicking off and I am sure it will make her a very unhappy animal.
 
Get vet to check for a granulosa theca cell tumour on an ovary. Very very common, easily removed and quick recovery. My mare was generally placid and sweet natured, the tumour turned her into a nasty raving lunatic. She went straight back to jormal immediately after op.
 
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