Mystery Nightmare Hacker *PLS READ EVERYTHING*

Kamikaze

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To me she looks short and guarded as a whole. I know at 15 it is very hard to go against everyone round you but you need to block them out and do what you feel is best. Get the vet out for a full investigation, with either your mum and dad there at the same time. Then take it from there. It may be a couple of joint injections and a low level of Danilon/Bute may make her more comfortable to potter about. I also know what it is like when your mental health is bad and you depend on a horse. I ended up admitted when loosing them, so honestly I get it. BUT seeing them not right is even harder. Having a horse retired is not the end of the world, you can still spend a lovely time with them just being.
 
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Oh Ellie, my heart goes out to you. You can't take all this on your own shoulders, especially if you struggle with your mental health anyway. You absolutely must take care of yourself first and foremost. This horse has had a great few years with you (she could have had a very miserable few years with someone who didn't have your patience and understanding) you've done your absolute best.

Remember that this horse would be going through this whether or not she were with you- none of this is your fault, you've done everything the vet has recommended etc. I wish I could just give you a big hug! X
 

skint1

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11 February 2010
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5,215
Try something with Devil's Claw in it, I've had good results with my arthritic horses on that, but it can be tough on the gut so if she's ever had ulcers or anything, you might need to go a different route. It won't cure but it can help with managing the condition
 

Winters100

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There have been many studies on glucosamine in humans, and as far as I know none have shown any positive results. I still give it to my arthritic dog, mainly because he has been on it since under a year old due to joint defects, and I figure it is worth continuing just in case there is indeed some small benefit. It won't hurt, but sadly arthritis is a degenerative disease and no supplement will make a lot of difference.
 

ester

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joint supplements often make owners feel better without really doing much for the joints.
boswellia/devils claw have some anti-inflammatory effects but usually have a maximum
She looks short in front and possibly behind and there is no way I would be schooling her.
My 27yo retired welshie moves better off bute than those videos and is on daily bute because he just isn't quite him enough for me to be happy with him without it.

If she has multiple regions of arthritis (and it is likely the knee situation is too advanced too) the impact of any injections are likely to be limited.

You definitely need vet involvement and a frank chat about what happens, hopefully with the backing of your parents too.
 
Joined
21 August 2019
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I get that it’s a hard decision to retire her after working with her for 3 years however it may he the best thing for her. But if you wanted to try a few things before making that decision, I would suggest:
-a professional trainer (as others have said)
-thorough vet check (as others have said)
-moody mare suplements(Dodson and Horrell-stroppy mare (I’ve heard good things about it- it could just be a lot of nonsense but it might be worth a try?)
good luck
 

Nari

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Cortez I don't see why you consider drugging, ie giving bute, to relieve pain is unethical if it gives a horse a good quality of life. I agree if it means a horse is then worked hard enough to damage it or worsen a condition, but have no qualms about a low level under vet supervision so that a horse is pain free.
 

Pearlsasinger

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It won’t do harm but it won’t really cure anything.

I had an ID who reacted very badly to glucosamine, she became very spooky and bucked me off on the road - most unlike her- glucosamine is extremely sweet. Honestly, she would be better on prescribed pain relief/anti-inflammatories from the vet - and it would work out cheaper than all the supplements you are giving her.
 

Cortez

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Cortez I don't see why you consider drugging, ie giving bute, to relieve pain is unethical if it gives a horse a good quality of life. I agree if it means a horse is then worked hard enough to damage it or worsen a condition, but have no qualms about a low level under vet supervision so that a horse is pain free.
No, I meant drugging it to ride. A low level of maintenance pain relief is ethical.
 

Gloi

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There have been many studies on glucosamine in humans, and as far as I know none have shown any positive results. I still give it to my arthritic dog, mainly because he has been on it since under a year old due to joint defects, and I figure it is worth continuing just in case there is indeed some small benefit. It won't hurt, but sadly arthritis is a degenerative disease and no supplement will make a lot of difference.
Both myself and my dad have tried it for arthritis without any effect, sadly.
 

Tiddlypom

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No, I meant drugging it to ride. A low level of maintenance pain relief is ethical.
So am I unethical in giving my wonky mare a Danilon a day, with full vets approval and encouragement, so that we can continue to potter around together? She has bilateral hock arthritis + PSSM . Would you prefer her to be a pasture ornament, or PTS?

Vet and chiro vet both say that light work is very beneficial for this horse, to stop her seizing up. It could be that a vet says the same for the OP’s horse, but she does need a proper diagnosis first.

(My ruddy animal is currently off all games with an extra wonk which she’s done in the field, but hope to have her back in light work eventually with a lot of help from vet, chiro vet, medication and saddler).

My senior retired mare was looking very iffy, but the chiro vet has worked miracles on her this week, and she’s like a new horse after a 45 minute treatment session.
 

Cortez

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So am I unethical in giving my wonky mare a Danilon a day, with full vets approval and encouragement, so that we can continue to potter around together? She has bilateral hock arthritis + PSSM . Would you prefer her to be a pasture ornament, or PTS?

Vet and chiro vet both say that light work is very beneficial for this horse, to stop her seizing up. It could be that a vet says the same for the OP’s horse, but she does need a proper diagnosis first.

(My ruddy animal is currently off all games with an extra wonk which she’s done in the field, but hope to have her back in light work eventually with a lot of help from vet, chiro vet, medication and saddler).

My senior retired mare was looking very iffy, but the chiro vet has worked miracles on her this week, and she’s like a new horse after a 45 minute treatment session.
It's up to you to decide what you do, but no, I certainly would not consider riding a horse that had to be drugged in order to do so. Never have; never will.
 

Winters100

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18 April 2015
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So am I unethical in giving my wonky mare a Danilon a day, with full vets approval and encouragement, so that we can continue to potter around together? She has bilateral hock arthritis + PSSM . Would you prefer her to be a pasture ornament, or PTS?

Vet and chiro vet both say that light work is very beneficial for this horse, to stop her seizing up. It could be that a vet says the same for the OP’s horse, but she does need a proper diagnosis first.

(My ruddy animal is currently off all games with an extra wonk which she’s done in the field, but hope to have her back in light work eventually with a lot of help from vet, chiro vet, medication and saddler).

My senior retired mare was looking very iffy, but the chiro vet has worked miracles on her this week, and she’s like a new horse after a 45 minute treatment session.
I don't think that this was what Cortez was getting at. To me what she wrote was simply that giving a lot of pain medication just to allow a horse to be worked is not ethical, and I agree. Clearly if, as in your case, the work is part of a care plan agreed with your vet this is a completely different thing. The important question is whether the work is to the benefit of the horse or only for the enjoyment of the owner, so great that in your case it is to the benefit of your horse. OPs horse has, as I understand, not been assessed by the vet for this issue for some time. and from the photos and videos the arthritis appears to be quite advanced, so clearly it would be beneficial for her to be rested until such time as a good equine vet can examine her.


Edited to add that I stand corrected in misinterpreting what Cortez was getting at. I suppose each case has to be considered individually, and most importantly from the position of benefit to the horse being top priority.
 

Equine_Dream

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2 February 2015
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973
Ellie my heart goes out to you sweetheart. You are very young to be dealing with all this and mental health issues on top. Please try and get some support from an adult, whether it's your parents or YO or another livery you trust. I would struggle with all this at 29 let alone 15.
Personally I agree with the others, your little mare needs a thorough examination from the vet and a pain management plan in place. I think her ridden career is over sadly but that's not to say she wouldn't be happy living out her days in her field with the odd gentle in hand walk. You won't know until you try.
Also with riding, are any of the other liveries on the yard happy for you to borrow their ponies? Or maybe even share?
Good luck sweetheart. Hope you find a solution that suits you and your girl
 

Ellie Ruby

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16 July 2020
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54
Ellie my heart goes out to you sweetheart. You are very young to be dealing with all this and mental health issues on top. Please try and get some support from an adult, whether it's your parents or YO or another livery you trust. I would struggle with all this at 29 let alone 15.
Personally I agree with the others, your little mare needs a thorough examination from the vet and a pain management plan in place. I think her ridden career is over sadly but that's not to say she wouldn't be happy living out her days in her field with the odd gentle in hand walk. You won't know until you try.
Also with riding, are any of the other liveries on the yard happy for you to borrow their ponies? Or maybe even share?
Good luck sweetheart. Hope you find a solution that suits you and your girl
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes I was schooling a 14.2/3hh Connemara mare to help its owner as she had too much energy! Until another livery pushed me out the way and took over.

Then I was offered to school a 12hh cob mare that kept bucking off its owner.
I have been helping them out with her but I declined on getting on her as she is too small.

I rode a liveries 18hh Holsteiner.
But I haven’t really thought about it since then.
I could put something on our yards Facebook page.
 

Tiddlypom

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She sounds how my daughters 18 year old 14.2 pony was last year, She ended up having her ovaries out. Different pony now.
Removing the pony’s ovaries settled her arthritic knees?

Cortez, we will have to agree to disagree on the therapeutic use of NSAIDs, under veterinary supervision, to control arthritic pain to allow a horse to continue in some sort of work. The use of NSAIDs reduces inflammation as well as relieving pain, it doesn’t ‘mask’ pain.

We are agreed, though, on not keeping lame limping horses going on. I will medicate mine, if appropriate, to keep them pain free but you call time.
 

Nari

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27 September 2005
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2,726
So am I unethical in giving my wonky mare a Danilon a day, with full vets approval and encouragement, so that we can continue to potter around together? She has bilateral hock arthritis + PSSM . Would you prefer her to be a pasture ornament, or PTS?

Vet and chiro vet both say that light work is very beneficial for this horse, to stop her seizing up. It could be that a vet says the same for the OP’s horse, but she does need a proper diagnosis first.

(My ruddy animal is currently off all games with an extra wonk which she’s done in the field, but hope to have her back in light work eventually with a lot of help from vet, chiro vet, medication and saddler).

My senior retired mare was looking very iffy, but the chiro vet has worked miracles on her this week, and she’s like a new horse after a 45 minute treatment session.
I'm in a similar position. Welsh cob has a stiff hock and also has Insulin Dysregulation so prone to laminitis if insulin sensitivity isn't kept up and that requires work as well as diet. He has severe historic rotations in his fores which occurred before we knew about the ID problem. Vet recommended a bute a day to ease the stiffness in the hock and stop him overloading the fronts which won't take it. He was happy hacking without the bute but was putting more strain on his fronts, with it he's using the hind more strongly again and is quite a pocket rocket. At no point did he actually look lame, he just started to lack his usual push from behind and was a bit stiff for the farrier. I have no problems with giving bute for this, he's a light hack and that's all he'll be BUT without this work he has little hope of a healthy future. The bute allowing him to work properly means he's a bright and happy lad with a good quality of life.
 

Pearlsasinger

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OP, I have been thinking about this. My ID had frightened her previous owner by her behaviour on the roads. She gave me some of the food she had been using which had glucosamine as one of the ingredients. I only used it for a few days before putting her onto the same basic feed that the others were on. I didn't ride her for the first few days either.
She was a sensible hack, although not 'totally bombproof' and went on RC social rides in large groups with no problem, leaving them behind to come home, not batting an eyelid at ponies in fancy dress etc, etc. Then she developed windgalls and I put her onto the same glucosamine supplement as the elderly cob. She became very spooky but I didn't connect the two. She then needed treatment for a back muscle problem and had acupuncture and 3 months off work. Unfortunately as I was bringing her back into work, she got cellulitis which caused sepsis and had to be pts. I only put the glucosamine and the spooky behaviour together after the pts.

Please take your mare off the glucosamine immediately, it might very well make a huge difference to her behaviour.
 

Ellie Ruby

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16 July 2020
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54
OP, I have been thinking about this. My ID had frightened her previous owner by her behaviour on the roads. She gave me some of the food she had been using which had glucosamine as one of the ingredients. I only used it for a few days before putting her onto the same basic feed that the others were on. I didn't ride her for the first few days either.
She was a sensible hack, although not 'totally bombproof' and went on RC social rides in large groups with no problem, leaving them behind to come home, not batting an eyelid at ponies in fancy dress etc, etc. Then she developed windgalls and I put her onto the same glucosamine supplement as the elderly cob. She became very spooky but I didn't connect the two. She then needed treatment for a back muscle problem and had acupuncture and 3 months off work. Unfortunately as I was bringing her back into work, she got cellulitis which caused sepsis and had to be pts. I only put the glucosamine and the spooky behaviour together after the pts.

Please take your mare off the glucosamine immediately, it might very well make a huge difference to her behaviour.

Yes i will,
She has been on it for 4months now. She gallops around the field everyday.
I should of put two and two together.

Thanks
 

Pearlsasinger

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What's the difference between Devils Claw and Devils Relief?

Thanks

Devil's Claw is the name of the plant/herb and Devils Relief is the name of the product that contains DC and various other ingredients. TBH, I would avoid that too. Wait until the vet has seen her and can make a judgement about her condition as she is. Please let us know if taking her off the glucosamine does make a difference.
 

holeymoley

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18 November 2012
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3,794
I agree with taking her off everything until the vet sees her.

I love Devils Releif by NAF and feed it only when my guy is doing a long hack or schooling. He's 18 and has ever so slightly stiff hocks until he gets moving. It's fabulous stuff but I wouldn't want to feed it every day.
 

Ellie Ruby

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16 July 2020
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54
Hi,
It has been along time.
So she is retired now. We did have the option of keeping her going but it would be risking her tripping and going down.
ATM the vet has prescribed 1sachet of bute per day (1/2 in morning, 1/2 at night) just to see if there is
any improvement. If not then we are going to take her off it.
She is a very strong pony so the vet said she would be fine to keep her in light work but the option was ours.
They reckon it was bad accident involving going down on her knees that caused it.
118687737_772291920256355_7382277179123554389_n.jpg
 
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