Myths? do these work...?

Kellys Heroes

Kellys Heroes

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Our mare has been poorly lately with bad lameness (query Cushings...just waiting for results!)
Someone has told us that rubbing eucalyptus oil on her hooves will numb the pain hence allowing us to let her walk about to get the circulation going (she is starting to improve and has started to wander but it does take us a while to get her back!) ETA - all I have in is tea tree oil...will this have the same effect???
We've also been recommended epsom salts to flush the toxins out of her system and aspirin to thin her blood....
has anyone heard of this and does it work??
Anything is worth a try now - she is on 1 1/2 Danilon a day and is getting bored of stable rest bless her.
K x
 
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How about a variation on something I read in a James Herriot book..

Put cool water in poultice boots and put them on the affected hooves. In the book they did a blood letting and standing in a stream. No suggestions re the blood bit(!), but the cooling of the feet might help?
 
I can't see how eucalyptus oil on the hoof would help with pain relief or circulation. The hoof is keratin and has no blood supply near the external surfaces.

Have no experience of this though so could be completely wrong! Hope someone can help with some more constructive advice :)
 
MrsMistletoe said:
How about a variation on something I read in a James Herriot book..

Put cool water in poultice boots and put them on the affected hooves. In the book they did a blood letting and standing in a stream. No suggestions re the blood bit(!), but the cooling of the feet might help?
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Is laminitis the problem? If so then I know of people who have used cold applications on the feet to ease pain.
 
Its 99% that it was lami...though it didn't seem like it!! No stance pulse heat etc all she displayed was severe crippling lameness (she is starting to move better now after about 5 weeks)
they are testing for Cushings as she has very fluffy coat at the moment (although with the winter...its not surprising!) but she's curly too so we're waiting for test results - obv if it is cushings it probably was lami that was the problem re the lameness!
K x

sorry not explained very well!!
she's 17 and has always been prone to lami...however we didn't think it was lami this time as not like other times! so the vets think its cushings 'cause nothing they did worked...we will try cold poultice thank you :) just wondered if the other things worked if anyone knew of them!
 
I have heard of standing in a stream etc but I thought nowadays it was thought that cold does not help much.:confused: I may be so wrong though!
The main thing is that the horse needs to stay on rest on a deep bed until sound without analgesics - so getting rid of the pain by analgesic applications of anything would not allow the horse to be excercised safely. They can only come off box rest once sound I am sure. Your vet would be your best advisor (or your farrier).
 
Further to the query if its laminitis, I understand that the theory has changed with them standing in cold water - it causes the blood to flow more vigorously thru the capillaries and causes pain?? Cushings has a series of symptoms and laminitis usually comes hand in hand with it, along with foot abscesses. Deep soft bed is probably the only real relief that they can have.

Tea tree oil won't have the same effect if any, I also wouldn't just be giving asprin as I'm not sure of the effect in horses. With regard to detoxing, why not try ringing Ainsworths Pharmacy in London, they can suggest a homeopathic remedy that would be appropriate to your horses symptoms - its helped us in the past and we've been suprised by the results.
 
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I think the eucalyptus oil on the hooves is a made up invention of someone. I've never heard of that before but even if I had it makes no sense whatsoever. If you are looking for a proven detoxifier then dried nettles are a good choice. If you want to be able to help your horse move around a bit better to stimulate bloodflow in the feet then why don't you buy her a pair of horse boots? Boas or Old Macs. Standing laminitics in cold water is a well known myth though. Some say it helps, others say no. Can't see that it would do any harm, so why not.
 
Thanks :) they are just methods that have been suggested to us by people on the farm. I, myself, couldnt see any point in feeding epsom salts....surely would just give them diaorrhea???
She's been very sore but is slowly getting better (the vet sedated her and had her feet cut back) - she's starting to wander on her own now in her own time just out of the stable and back and at all other times she's on a deep bed and has magnetic boots on overnight.
She has no heat, swelling etc just very curly woolly coat - no abscesses etc. So in a way, am hoping it is Cushings at least we can started to give the medication then :(
K x
 
iconique said:
Further to the query if its laminitis, I understand that the theory has changed with them standing in cold water - it causes the blood to flow more vigorously thru the capillaries and causes pain?? .
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To be honest - it was always something I thought was a historical treatment - but this was mentioned to me by an equine vet early this year. I remember clearly as I linked it to the standing in the stream comment from ancient books! I'm not quite sure how cold treatments would increase blood supply to the foot? - Surely a drop in temperature would result in constricted blood vessels and therefore a reduced supply? This should reduce the harmful action from toxins in the blood on the sensitive laminae in the foot. I presume that this, and the fact that movement may cause further damage to a weakened internal foot structure, is the reason that horses are now box rested immediately on a laminitic attack? That said - perhaps recent research has led to another about turn!

Deep bed - yep and frog pads too - but then your vet should have advised this already.
 
Our old vet told us to use epsom salts for our laminitic pony, it does'nt give them the squits, it is just magnesium really, and lots of people feed that as a calmer.
We fed magnesium to our laminitic and it seemed to imrove his feet, from flat to concave' i say seemed as i can't be 100% sure it was down to just that.
 
KellysHeroes said:
Thanks :) they are just methods that have been suggested to us by people on the farm. I, myself, couldnt see any point in feeding epsom salts....surely would just give them diaorrhea???
She's been very sore but is slowly getting better (the vet sedated her and had her feet cut back) - she's starting to wander on her own now in her own time just out of the stable and back and at all other times she's on a deep bed and has magnetic boots on overnight.
She has no heat, swelling etc just very curly woolly coat - no abscesses etc. So in a way, am hoping it is Cushings at least we can started to give the medication then :(
K x
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Aahh - don't go with cold treatments then as she is in recovery! Cold would be for first aid. Magnets are used to increase blood supply so cold treatments would contradict this!

rosehips to strength laminae bonding


Will remember the rosehip for healing laminae - never heard of that before - what sort of doseage do you use. When do you start using it?

Thanks for posting this thread - it's very interesting! I hope you she starts to feel more comfy soon x
 
I've been told Epsom salts removes toxins from the body before... I'm sure a vet and a feed merchant advised it. (my pony had a severe allergic reaction and swelled up to twice the size!) I put 1 tablespoon sized scoop in his feed. Didn't give him the squits.

I've heard of the asprin thing before too. It def thins the blood (they give it to the elderly who are prone to blood clots) a vet told a friend of mine with a pony with lami to do it.
 
Laminitis is a symptom of digestive upset. To add epsom salts to the feed only risks causing further digestive upset. The pain is caused by vasoconstriction (constricted blood vessels) and inflammation in the lamminae. Cold water will possibly lessen the pain in the short term but will actually worsen the disease as will cause further narrowing of the blood vessels, reducing the bloody flow to the tissues and lead to further damage/death of the laminae. Aspirin does have a blood thinning effect BUT the blood is not too thick - the blood vessels are too thin! The only drug I am aware of that counteracts this is ACP which is the sedative found in sedalin. Also I think that applying any kind of essential oil neat to any part of the body is a no no but best check that out with a specialist!

If you are serious about improving your horses welfare and chances of survival I'd strongly recommend contacting Robert Eustace at the Laminitis Clinic - if they don't have the answers I doubt anyone will. Best of luck with your girl - it's a horrible condition.
 
thanks guys - the rosehips one sounds interesting, might give that a go.
She went out this morning (meandered to paddock in her own time!) and had a mooch for about ten minutes - she seems better once she is moving. Just hoping test results come back soon and they can start to treat whatever it is (looking likely to be cushings).

We don't think it is lami - that's all the vets could put it down to at the time but it just seemed all a bit odd how it started...she had a bad attack of lami in summer, she was out of work for 5 months and she'd been treated and had her feet seen by a very good farrier who specialises with lami prone horses - since then she'd come back into work (for about 7 weeks before this happened) and was doing so well and suddenly she was crippled (just couldn't walk, but weight bearing okay and no 'lami' stance, pulse heat etc) when we pulled her out of her stable one morning. Since then she's been bad but she's much improved to how she was :) I guess all we can do is keep her comfy until the vets get the results of her tests back. She was given a dose of epsom salts this morning so we'll see how that works.
K x
 
Not a horse related answer, but I have had problems with getting my blood circulation back into my ankle after a serious break.

I use to put alot of cold on my ankle - it got rid of the swelling, and eased the pain. However, I was told by my surgeon and physio, that this didn't help with getting my circulation working - it did the opposite - I needed warmth for my circulation! Catch 22 situation as ever! So instead of cold, I used warmth instead to help. Also, another thing, I used magnets too.

I guess it depends on what effect you are seeking as to what will help your mares issues best! Hope you get things sorted for her xx

ETA: Forgot to mention, another thing that I had to do to assist the blood circulation was to exercise and keep my joint moving and weight bear.
 
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Rudey said:
Not a horse related answer, but I have had problems with getting my blood circulation back into my ankle after a serious break.

I use to put alot of cold on my ankle - it got rid of the swelling, and eased the pain. However, I was told by my surgeon and physio, that this didn't help with getting my circulation working - it did the opposite - I needed warmth for my circulation! Catch 22 situation as ever! So instead of cold, I used warmth instead to help. Also, another thing, I used magnets too.

I guess it depends on what effect you are seeking as to what will help your mares issues best! Hope you get things sorted for her xx

ETA: Forgot to mention, another thing that I had to do to assist the blood circulation was to exercise and keep my joint moving and weight bear.
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This is along the lines that we were thinking....we've been trying to give her a big bed half deep littered and we're using magnetic boots - just want to keep her moving a little as once she gets going, she's not as bad :( just don't know what to do for best!
K x
 
The main thing with laminitis is to sort the diet out, vets will tell you that there are numerous triggers for lami, which is true, but, the major cause of lami is diet in the UK.

Whilst agreeing that there are numerous triggers for lami, I feel that the horse is less likely to suffer from an attack if they are fed correctly. A proper diet will give them some protection against an attack, where the trigger is not diet related.

It has become accepted within the industry, that horses are given hard feeds, normally, twice a day, which consist of some brand or other from a major manufacturer. Most of these feeds are cereal based and coated with mollasses, to increase the palatability. Therefore the horse is getting a massive dose of sugar and starch which they don't need and in some cases is detrimental, in as much as it aggrivates or even causes metabolic dissorder.

Laminitis is a symptom of the metabolic disorder suffered by the horse, where put simply, bloodflow to in the laminae in the hoof is shut off, causing the laminae to degenerate. This in turn allows the pedal bone to rotate. Pedal bone rotation can occur within hours of the onset of the attack.

When an attack does occur then it is imperative that the horses metabolism be allowed to regulate itself and removal of sugars from the horses system is the key to this.

Soaked hay or haylage is the only thing that the horse should be offered in the initial stages. Little or no improvement to the lameness and discomfort is seen in the initial period as the damage to the hoof is catastrophic and the horse has to effectively grow a new hoof. However, massive doses of painkillers should be avoided if possible as they will slow down or even impead the recovery of the hoof. However, on welfare grounds painkillers are often given, but no advantage is gained by attempting to alleviate all pain and get the horse up and moving before the natural recovery has started.

Filling the stable with 10mm pea gravel to a depth of 6" will give tremendous relief to the horse when standing. It is also the horses preferred choice to lie on, if given a choice. It may not look comfortable to you, but, you are not a horse.

A balancer should be offered to the horse to maintain vits and minerals, unmolassed beat pulp is good to mix with this as the sugar has all been extracted, but don't be tempted to use molassed, its poison. This together with well soaked forage should be the diet from then on. No apples or carrots or anything like that, too much sugar.

Once your horse has stabalized its sugar levels recovery takes place, though this is a long job. You should be aware that the type of grasses grazed by your horse the condition of that grass and the time of day all has an influence on the amount of sugars your horse is eating.

However, once molassed cereals are removed from the diet the tolerance to naturally occuring sugars is wider. Once regeneration of the laminae has started then the pedal bone will in most cases undergo a complete reversal. 9-12 months will probably elapse before the horse has grown a new hoof.

Low grade laminitis, which accounts for much periodic and unexplained lameness, can be erradicated by altering the diet. Do not be tempted to feed anything from major feed companies which claim to be ok for lamanitic's, they are not and the claims are rubbish.

There is little to be gained by adopting any of the old wives tales about soaking the feet or feeding epsom salts etc. Take care that you know the sugar levels of anything else you feed.

Other factors such as shoeing can disguise the symptoms low grade laminitis.

Any horse prone to laminitis is in effect a diabetic and should be treated as such.

Hope this helps.
 
Interested in the suggestion of standing the horse on pea gravel, have heard of it being useful for barefoot horses,but is it more comfortable for a lamminitic than a shavings bed ? Genuinely interested to know the rationale :)
 
Also interesting - glad to hear the aspirin thing may work although must admit we haven't fed her any yet! :o she had epsom salts for the last 2 days and it hasn't given her the squits (thank goodness!):D
Thanks for the info, she has always been treated AS a laminitic (even when not suffering) she has limited grazing (two hours max per day through summer and perhaps three hours a week in winter (she's not a very outdoorsy horse!)) with a grass muzzle on, is exercised every day (weather and health permitting - obv winter ice has put a stop to this!), she is fed soaked hay and has a scoop of Healthy Hooves once a day with garlic in. She's exceptionally messy on shavings (I'm talking 2 bales a day - costly!) so after the initial onset of lameness we tend to keep her on straw and the vet said she's fine on that.

If this attack started as lami, I don't think it still is (if that makes sense). Just can't wait to get her results back as if it is Cushings at least we can then get her on the medication!
K x
 
I was brought up with "if theres heat use cold water " be it a hose or stream and to be honest its first thing I do with heat in feet and legs and ummmmm also on myself lol
 
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