Napping issues

[Happyhorses637]

After some advice. I’m in my 40’s had horses for decades. Mainly focused on hacking / endurance / dressage to affiliated medium, low level BD judging.

I’ve got a napping issue with my current horse. We’ve been through loads and loads of physical issues (both of us) but I’m very sure are no pain or fitness issues now. He’s moving well, well muscled, fully fit, good reports all round from all our team of professionals and my observations.

But the napping has got worse. It appears a couple of times a week, about 1 ride in 5? I think it started from pain and has become entrenched.

There’s not a terribly clear pattern e.g. I can do two solo laps of the woods hacking, and he flat refuses to do another. He’s napped twice flat refusing to leave competition warm ups. He’s napped towards home hacking in company.

Once he’s dug his toes in he’s almost impossible to get moving. Any force brings on a fight / throwing himself about / into things / leaping & plunging complete loss of self preservation. I have self preservation so I back off / get ground assistance / get off / wait / close gates so he can’t get home.

My professional advice locally is don’t fight him outright, he sees red and ups the ante. That I need to distract / diffuse / change subject. But I’m not resolving the behaviour.

Waiting him out / reversing him / smacking him, turning tight circles doesn’t work.

He’s a bright, alpha, 13 year old horse. I think this is deep routed, I’ve owned him nearly 2 years, I’d really like to solve it.

I’m a fairly capable rider, I can lunge / long rein / work in hand. He loads / travels / is used to competitions and clinics.

We’ve done le trec training / horse agility / pleasure rides / is exposed to most hazards / goes to gallops / done a range of competitions etc, I’d not do these things at the moment.

I aspire a horse I can hack anywhere, any time and venue, and the bond and partnership to do this.

I also want to compete, he’s an experienced competition horse, but he’s now napped at last two competitions to the point of being a danger to others.

But I’m not super brave. I am not keen to have us both on the floor on the concrete.

Or am I being unrealistic for a 13 year old horse that’s got the better of me.

He’s never been a horse you boss. You set up situations for him to do the right thing, and reward the right choices.

He does same with other riders. I’m guessing a specialist pro would have more success but I’m not sure anything works as a lasting solution unless I do it myself?

 

[nikkimariet]

Can you pin point where it got worse?

My 5yo is an idiot about napping. Will do it towards and away from home with and without company. He can be cantering along then next moment spinning aiming for the hedge with his teeth out.

He got 72% and 68% last week. Perfect warm up. Perfect tests (I went wrong in the second!). Napped between the warm up and the test both times.

He's had a full physical work up and vets declared him soundest and most beautiful horse they'd ever seen. There's no rhyme or reason for it. Luckily he rarely prats about during flatwork of which he does 2 sessions a week to keep him fresh and a lot of forward/hacking/gallop work otherwise. That really does help. I'm always surprised how much fitness he has for the flatwork despite only schooling him twice a week!

I also cannot boss Nova around. I can tell him what I think and show him what I want. But I can argue for 60 seconds or 60 minutes to get the same result.

 

[TPO]

I don't know what area you are in but it would be worth looking at lessons with someone like Richard Maxwell/Guy Robertson/Joe Midgely. They all work on getting control over the hinds and once you truly have that then you can move a horse in any direction with no drama. If only it was as easy to do as it is for me to type!

A horse can only nap if it is not truly in front of the leg; he needs to (re)learn that forward is always, and the only, answer. Again, very easy for me to say but not always easy to do. A lot of that training can be done from the ground and then transferred to ridden work. However it is a skill in itself, hence suggesting a few trainers who will work with you as well as the horse. Good luck

 

[Happyhorses637]

I think it got wor

Can you pin point where it got worse?

My 5yo is an idiot about napping. Will do it towards and away from home with and without company. He can be cantering along then next moment spinning aiming for the hedge with his teeth out.

He got 72% and 68% last week. Perfect warm up. Perfect tests (I went wrong in the second!). Napped between the warm up and the test both times.

He's had a full physical work up and vets declared him soundest and most beautiful horse they'd ever seen. There's no rhyme or reason for it. Luckily he rarely prats about during flatwork of which he does 2 sessions a week to keep him fresh and a lot of forward/hacking/gallop work otherwise. That really does help. I'm always surprised how much fitness he has for the flatwork despite only schooling him twice a week!

I also cannot boss Nova around. I can tell him what I think and show him what I want. But I can argue for 60 seconds or 60 minutes to get the same result.

I think it got worse when he was in pain over last six months and I lost more arguments. In hind sight cause was pain which I’ve gone to great efforts to eliminate.

I think I bought him with the attitude if he really doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to. But I think the pain issues magnified the problem and consolidated his belief if he said no and threw full strop he’d get his own way.

 

[Happyhorses637]

I don't know what area you are in but it would be worth looking at lessons with someone like Richard Maxwell/Guy Robertson/Joe Midgely. They all work on getting control over the hinds and once you truly have that then you can move a horse in any direction with no drama. If only it was as easy to do as it is for me to type!

A horse can only nap if it is not truly in front of the leg; he needs to (re)learn that forward is always, and the only, answer. Again, very easy for me to say but not always easy to do. A lot of that training can be done from the ground and then transferred to ridden work. However it is a skill in itself, hence suggesting a few trainers who will work with you as well as the horse. Good luck

I’ve someone in mind to try. He’s pretty good re groundwork which is a bit of a puzzle.

 

[Happyhorses637]

I think it got wor

Can you pin point where it got worse?

My 5yo is an idiot about napping. Will do it towards and away from home with and without company. He can be cantering along then next moment spinning aiming for the hedge with his teeth out.

He got 72% and 68% last week. Perfect warm up. Perfect tests (I went wrong in the second!). Napped between the warm up and the test both times.

He's had a full physical work up and vets declared him soundest and most beautiful horse they'd ever seen. There's no rhyme or reason for it. Luckily he rarely prats about during flatwork of which he does 2 sessions a week to keep him fresh and a lot of forward/hacking/gallop work otherwise. That really does help. I'm always surprised how much fitness he has for the flatwork despite only schooling him twice a week!

I also cannot boss Nova around. I can tell him what I think and show him what I want. But I can argue for 60 seconds or 60 minutes to get the same result.

He doesn’t really do it in school. Though I’d not fancy gate open. He has a good variety of work.

I think I’ve made painexcuses / babied him / avoided conflict for too long and now have an established issue.

 

[showjumpingharry]

Mine is like this. Once he gets it into his head you can't argue with him, else he goes up and has gone over backwards previously. He is also more likely to nap depending on the rider. He will do it alone or in company, in front or behind. For him, It stems from pain from a badly fitting saddle and then he learnt it as an evasion technique.

What I do is either get someone on the ground to drag him, because if I get off him, he gets his way, or when he spins I stop him and reverse him in the direction I want him to go in. He is focused on walking backwards, so he doesn't nap. After he has gone backwards for a bit I turn him around at trot him forwards so that he is moving on and it is easier to push him on when I feel him backing off.

It's been a long 3.5 years but he will now hack without napping for me, but not yet my sister as she can't think ahead enough and ride him through it and he knows it.

 

[AmyMay]

What were his physical issues?

 

[Happyhorses637]

What were his physical issues?

Saddle fit, impinging spines, bruised feet, soft tissue injury in foot, two types of stomach ulcers.

All currently clear. And I’m hopeful as ulcers didn’t return when other pain and stress issues present won’t return. Though he’s treated as an ulcer prone horse as preventative.

TBH he doesn’t nap more when tired / stressed / asked to work harder. And it’s not consistent. He’s pretty clear now when he’s in pain / unhappy schooling and is currently happy schooling IMO.

 

[Happyhorses637]

Mine is like this. Once he gets it into his head you can't argue with him, else he goes up and has gone over backwards previously. He is also more likely to nap depending on the rider. He will do it alone or in company, in front or behind. For him, It stems from pain from a badly fitting saddle and then he learnt it as an evasion technique.

What I do is either get someone on the ground to drag him, because if I get off him, he gets his way, or when he spins I stop him and reverse him in the direction I want him to go in. He is focused on walking backwards, so he doesn't nap. After he has gone backwards for a bit I turn him around at trot him forwards so that he is moving on and it is easier to push him on when I feel him backing off.

It's been a long 3.5 years but he will now hack without napping for me, but not yet my sister as she can't think ahead enough and ride him through it and he knows it.

My horse sounds very similar. I’ve tried the reining back but my horse will do a few steps and realised he’s going the way he doesn’t want to and rears and plunged as an objection.

Not every foot equestrian can drag him forward when he baulks. He’s ignored some of my horsey friends. The very assertive can!

 

[Happyhorses637]

I think he’s backward thinking generally when ridden in the school. But can be defused / cajoled / distracted.

He is generally stroppy and tackling him head on is rarely useful. Better to persist quietly eg if he spooks at a jump wing, not let him change subject and keep on with schooling exercise in hand.

The harder / more technical the school work the more likely he is to look for ways to change the subject.