Napping problem - help please

[goodtimes]

I have owned my boy for nearly 6 months now. I have owned horses most of my life - but this one is definately teaching me more than any of the others have!

He is a bit nappy in the school - I knew this when I bought him, but as I love schooling, and have a fab instructor, I didn't think it was too much of a problem. He is fabulous out hacking (alone or in company) but just naps in the school.

He is much much better now than he was when he first came home, although has started doing a really srange thing in the school.

For the first 5 mins he doesn't want to go forward, sometimes he walks backwards - but then, after his little protest gets on and works lovely - his flat work is really coming on - it used to take 20 odd minutes of refusing to go forwards, running backwards, spinning - you get the picture.

So...

His latest trick is to sort of stop, lean back, stretching his legs out in front of him, almost as though he is going to sit down.

My trainer said its napping, his way of saying 'I don't want to move forwards'

I thought it might be his back or saddle, but he only ever does this when he is being nappy in the school.

I suppose my question is...have you ever seen or heard of this before? I haven't.

Got saddler and back person booked - just in case. But like I say, its only in the school that he does this.

 

[D66]

My girl does this when the farrier lifts her front legs forward. She doesn't seem in any pain, just seems to enjoy the stretch. Could you walk him round in hand before you get on, or pick up his legs and stretch them forward?

 

[goodtimes]

Yep - tried that. Walked him round then done some stretches with him.

Like I say - its only in the school he does it. Never out on a hack. And only when he is having a protest.

So today, got to the gate of the school - he took a few steps back and did his silly stretchy thing.

 

[caberston]

i've seen horses do this before, always assumed its just stretching. maybe he feels quite stiff/ tight when you first take him in the school, hence his reluctance to go forwards? perhaps he just doesn't do it when out hacking because you're not asking him to work so hard?? sounds rather mysterious!

 

[goodtimes]

It would be nice to think he is just having a stretch - but it is usually when he is being a bit awkward.

Umm - now I'm thinking, maybe he is being awkward bcause he needs a stretch?

 

[goodtimes]

No - just had a thought. He did this out hacking yesterday when he took a slight objection to going under a bridge!

Its definately when he doesn't want to go forward.

 

[D66]

Perhaps he has learned that when he stretches his rider dismounts.

I once rode a friends horse that used to try to lie down when a rider tried to mount. I got on quickly and tapped him with a stick, he was fine, just trying it on. His owners were very nervous and inadvertently trained him by getting off at the right time.

 

[goodtimes]

I've never got off him when he does it - maybe someone in the past has though

 

[D66]

Have you tried the saddle, teeth, back check? Would be good to rule it out. But if he has improved through schooling it is probably learnt behaviour.

 

[goodtimes]

Have you tried the saddle, teeth, back check? Would be good to rule it out. But if he has improved through schooling it is probably learnt behaviour.

Everything was checked in October. Got saddler out in a couple of weeks as he has changed shape again over these last couple of months (he was a proper fattie when I bought him)

I do think its his way of showing me he doesn't want to go forward - better than rearing I suppose

 

[AdorableAlice]

If he enjoys his hacking and swings along and doesn't give you any reason to believe he is uncomfortable, then I would say he is plain nappy.

I would give more to occupy his mind and school him on hacks rather than in the school. We don't have a school at home, the horse does leg yield, half pass, transitions, changes within the pace all on the lanes. We hire a school occasionally for canter work, but we also school in a field , doesn't matter if it's on a slope, it will teach him to balance himself without relying on a school wall.

Another excellent way of getting rid of napping is to hunt him, getting him to think forwards and enjoy himself. I fear not dealing with nappiness immediately will lead to a dangerous and potentially useless horse.

 

[goodtimes]

If he enjoys his hacking and swings along and doesn't give you any reason to believe he is uncomfortable, then I would say he is plain nappy.

I would give more to occupy his mind and school him on hacks rather than in the school. We don't have a school at home, the horse does leg yield, half pass, transitions, changes within the pace all on the lanes. We hire a school occasionally for canter work, but we also school in a field , doesn't matter if it's on a slope, it will teach him to balance himself without relying on a school wall.

Another excellent way of getting rid of napping is to hunt him, getting him to think forwards and enjoy himself. I fear not dealing with nappiness immediately will lead to a dangerous and potentially useless horse.

I do school on hacks and have also hunted him and did fun rides over summer.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Well, if he enjoys all his other work and is sound and comfortable in that work. His naughty behaviour in the school is pure napping.

No doubt I will be slated for this comment - but I will risk it. If you are confident to do it yourself then fine, otherwise put someone else on board and give him a good smack the next time he takes the rise in the school.

No doubt I have opened a can of worms and someone will be wanting my horses put in care !

Just a thought, does he do a dressage test at a show without napping ? A friend had a horse years ago that would not work in her school, but when she boxed up and went competing the horse turned in 70% plus every time ! Some of them are too smart for their own good.

 

[Puzzles]

It does sound like napping, but that doesn't mean it's justified to 'get hard' on him or that he's just deliberately being difficult for the sake of it.
I get the impression that you've had your horse for a while, so I don't think he believes he's gaining anything from napping, i.e. getting out of work etc.
Perpaps he lacks confidence in himself - and in you, if you don't mind me saying - enough to trust you to move forwards when you ask him to. Maybe he has negative association s of working in the school, associating it with difficult &/or boring work. It's great that you love schooling as I reckon this will hopefully transfer across to him & encourage a more positive attitude. Also with nappers, the more you fight and try to make them go forward (although this is a very easy reaction to make) the more they learn to think 'backwards' and resist you, making the napping worse.
Personally, I would try giving schooling a miss for a couple of weeks - the more you try to school & experience the same problems, the more ingrained this pattern of behaviour will be & the harder it will be to break it. And if you try to make him go forward, possibly using increasingly stronger requests over time, his behaviour is likely to only worsen - particularly as he plants himself and puts his weight behind, as this is an easy position from which to rear and you might end up with an even bigger problem than you began with.
So I would try making things more fun in the school - try groundwork & loose schooling & jumping. If you feel confident doing so, then long-reining is often great for encouraging horses to work forwards independently of the rider, especially with the 'driving' pose that the hander uses. It makes planting and napping more difficult for the horse to do. Honestly, lessen the pressure and work on building up more trust between you and your horse so that when you say 'go!' he goes 'ok!' without putting up a resistance. Groundwork - not necessarily synonymous with Natural Horsemanship! - is great for encouraging your horse to follow your lead. You will probably find that you gain many more means of getting your horse to move forwards and comply with your aids than you do just from riding him. Have fun together!
Good luck!

 

[lyndagriffiths]

Horses are great teachers arent they?? My lad is so backward thinking to begin with so do nothing on the bit just walk, sort of trot then lope (cant call it canter) for first ten minutes then on to bit (ish) and transitions. However, how about putting him on lunge to warm up? takes all the emotional stress out of the equation. Hope you have lots of fun with him. I know I dont feel very forward during winter months!

 

[goodtimes]

Thanks for your replies - I have taken him to a few dressage competitions.

The first one he napped to the gate and neighed all the way round!

The second on he spooked at the judge and ran backwards down the centre line.

Thrid one - not too bad, just not very forwards

The last one he was fabulous and we came 4th with 68%

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Thanks for your replies - I have taken him to a few dressage competitions.

The first one he napped to the gate and neighed all the way round!

The second on he spooked at the judge and ran backwards down the centre line.

Thrid one - not too bad, just not very forwards

The last one he was fabulous and we came 4th with 68%

Sounds like he just doesn't enjoy the school if his back and saddle are fine. A.bit of advice I got in dealing with napping was to work the horse near or in the the area they nap to then take a breather for a bit somewhere away from it. Is a kind of reverse way of thinking. Make the place he wants to nap to not very fun. It worked a treat with one of mine.

Xxxx

 

[goodtimes]

Sounds like he just doesn't enjoy the school if his back and saddle are fine. A.bit of advice I got in dealing with napping was to work the horse near or in the the area they nap to then take a breather for a bit somewhere away from it. Is a kind of reverse way of thinking. Make the place he wants to nap to not very fun. It worked a treat with one of mine.

Xxxx

Yep - did that to get over the worst of his napping. He is no where near as bad as he used to be - just this occasional stretchy thing now