Napping?

[SophW1898]

Looking for some advice (vet is also in the loop as an FYI)
Last summer my horse starting not wanting to go forward, mostly in the school but out hacking a bit too. Would stop/do little bunny hops/kick out.
He has hock arthritis which is injected yearly and has had ulcers before.
It didn't improve after a few weeks so I had his back, neck and front feet x rayed as well as his hocks reinjected, his x rays were perfect.
I decided to turn him away for 6 months whilst giving him ulcer treatment - I started long reining him 6 weeks ago and he's been really well behaved, sat on him at the weekend and the behaviour was still there so i'm completely at a loss as to whether its just learnt behaviour/pain memory?!
I've never had a nappy horse before and I don't like to think horses can 'take the piss', but I've spent thousands on x rays and treatment for his ulcers so without giving him a full body MRI i'm not sure what more I can do before thinking it's behavioural..
any advice/moral support appreciated

 

[Peglo]

Does his saddle fit?

 

[SophW1898]

Does his saddle fit?

yes he has a custom made saddle recently checked, he has the dentist every 6 months and i've also had his sheath cleaned recently to check for beans.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Has he had his suspensorys looked at?

 

[SophW1898]

Has he had his suspensorys looked at?

admittedly no, but he had a lameness work up recently with flexion tests and is perfectly sound.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Have you tried buting him? If he improves after a couple of weeks on Bute, it would suggest an underlying issue.
Is he better/worse in company? If it is behavioural, he might find confidence hacking out with another horse.

 

[SophW1898]

Have you tried buting him? If he improves after a couple of weeks on Bute, it would suggest an underlying issue.
Is he better/worse in company? If it is behavioural, he might find confidence hacking out with another horse.

this was my next thought to do a bute trial

 

[Hormonal Filly]

admittedly no, but he had a lameness work up recently with flexion tests and is perfectly sound.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have suspensory pain. PSD can just cause lack of performance and an unwillingness to go forward, unhappy on a surface etc. I have had 2 horses with PSD showing exactly like that plus 2 friends horses and lots on the 'PSD' Facebook page get diagnosed with those symptoms you describe.

It would be worth nerve blocking his suspensories to see if there is a improvement.

 

[Timelyattraction]

Second scanning the suspensories.
This sounds like typical psd I’m afraid

 

[lynz88]

SI and/or suspensories if not hock arthritis for mine. I strangely started feeding oily herbs and noticed a difference in napping as well. Took him off and napping and stuffiness back so has some sort of an effect on his stomach.

 

[SophW1898]

SI and/or suspensories if not hock arthritis for mine. I strangely started feeding oily herbs and noticed a difference in napping as well. Took him off and napping and stuffiness back so has some sort of an effect on his stomach.

Thanks he's had his whole body x rayed and is already treated yearly for hock arthritis

 

[SophW1898]

That doesn't mean he doesn't have suspensory pain. PSD can just cause lack of performance and an unwillingness to go forward, unhappy on a surface etc. I have had 2 horses with PSD showing exactly like that plus 2 friends horses and lots on the 'PSD' Facebook page get diagnosed with those symptoms you describe.

It would be worth nerve blocking his suspensories to see if there is a improvement.

Thank you - sorry I'm not massively clued up on PSD!
When i sent him into the clinic for his lameness work up, they said they performed nerve blocks on the whole of his back legs and the only positive response was from his hocks which we already knew about.
Do horses with PSD only react when ridden? I've been doing groundwork with tack on and he's more than happy to move forward then which is why I'm stumped!

 

[lynz88]

yes I saw that above. What I was saying is that if it isn't the hocks, then definitely look much deeper at the suspensories and/or SI (similar to what everyone else has mentioned). When I had initially injected the hocks or SI, the remembered pain didn't stick around for very long - a few rides max before mine understood that everything was ok so if your horse is continuing to nap, it is very likely to be an issue somewhere else. What about foot pain that wouldn't show up on radiographs - e.g. does your horse have shoes with the arthritis? Mine was not happy in shoes and although it's a chore and he gets footsore without, he is much happier as he doesn't get the reverberations? It's so hard when they can't talk.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Thank you - sorry I'm not massively clued up on PSD!
When i sent him into the clinic for his lameness work up, they said they performed nerve blocks on the whole of his back legs and the only positive response was from his hocks which we already knew about.
Do horses with PSD only react when ridden? I've been doing groundwork with tack on and he's more than happy to move forward then which is why I'm stumped!

The area PSD is, is just under the hocks so yes it would have had a change to filter down to it. At least that was what was explained go us when my sisters horse was diagnosed with it two years ago.

 

[SophW1898]

yes I saw that above. What I was saying is that if it isn't the hocks, then definitely look much deeper at the suspensories and/or SI (similar to what everyone else has mentioned). When I had initially injected the hocks or SI, the remembered pain didn't stick around for very long - a few rides max before mine understood that everything was ok so if your horse is continuing to nap, it is very likely to be an issue somewhere else. What about foot pain that wouldn't show up on radiographs - e.g. does your horse have shoes with the arthritis? Mine was not happy in shoes and although it's a chore and he gets footsore without, he is much happier as he doesn't get the reverberations? It's so hard when they can't talk.

thanks, he has front shoes on but not hinds as he has good strong feet and I didn't find having them on did him any good! it's hard as he's no longer insured so any extra investigations come out of my own pocket and I've already spent close to £5k in the few years I've had him..

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you - sorry I'm not massively clued up on PSD!
When i sent him into the clinic for his lameness work up, they said they performed nerve blocks on the whole of his back legs and the only positive response was from his hocks which we already knew about.
Do horses with PSD only react when ridden? I've been doing groundwork with tack on and he's more than happy to move forward then which is why I'm stumped!

Yes, I do believe they're worse ridden (ie the weight makes the symptoms worse/more painful) My friends 6yo mare who has just been diagnosed with PSD. Prior to diagnosis she did groundwork for 6 weeks went extremely well, build up topline but as soon as she started to be ridden she went back to square one and they've now diagnosed the PSD.

Sorry to hear you've had a rubbish time with him OP.. Suspensories are difficult and it seems so common now. It could be worth spending a few hundred on a second opinion. Nerve blocks and the lameness work up with a 'lameness vet' was about £400 last year for my horse. You might get a diagnosis or recommendation without spending thousands. The fact he had a positive block to his hock, does sound highly suspicious of the suspensory though because its so close.

Without sounding cold, sometimes we have to say we've investigated enough and done all we can to try and make the horse comfortable. Unless you have enough to keep investigating, some horses just aren't fixable. That has been the harsh reality with my mare. She is 4 months in 6 months turned away due to suspensory pain. She was insured, but isn't anymore. Insurance spent over £12k in 2 years. I won't do anymore 'investigations' if she comes back in April unsound or just not happy to work, she'll be pts as I don't have the facility or money to retire her.

ETA all my mares investigations were due to napping/unwilling to go forward. ):

 

[kerrieberry2]

my gelding was exactly like this with ulcers and it took me a good year to get him to forget the pain memory! the best way I did that was by hacking him out every night for a summer, each day he got less and less nappy before he started leaving the yard without any drama! so it might be that your horse is still anticipating pain as the last time he was in work it would have been painful.

 

[Lady Jane]

@SophW1898 Whhen you saidhe has had his whole body x-rayed, did you mean he has had a Scitigraphy scan? There is lots of the body you an't actually x-ray.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Something else to think bout is that Soft tissue damage in the foot wont show up on X-ray either, if it’s bilateral there would be no obvious lameness.
In addition ulcers due to discomfort/pain may also be present.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.