Nappy Hacker

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Melms92

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Help needed please.


I recently bought a 14.2hh dun connemara who is 10 years old. He is a lovely pony who was brought over from Ireland as a 4 year old and broken and evented for 5 years with his first owner who was very experienced. He was sold 10 months ago to a 15 year old who evented him with some success however he started refusing planks and as such was advertised for sale as a dressage pony who was ultimately bought by me.


He arrived about a month and a half ago and was very anxious and unsettled for the first week or so. I hack out a lot and own another pony which my mum usually rides (he is a superstar and such a great confidence giver, both to other horses and humans) so we thought he would be the perfect partner to our new pony to give him some reassurance. We hack out around 5-6 times a week and do schooling on top of that. When you go to mount he can be difficult to get to stand still, I am working on this but it is a work in progress (I think it's due to his anxiety). In company our new pony is great, he can be a little spooky although is generally very well behaved. Initially when hacking out alone he behaved perfectly. In the last two weeks however he has started trying to nap (backing up and trying to turn for home). He started off by doing this once or twice throughout the ride (I haven't let him get away with it & after a battle he does move on). It is however getting more frequent now and he seems to be trying it on closer and closer to the yard although the severity of his strops are getting a little better. He seems to be just trying it on as today it was a set of cones and a parked van he decided to attempt to avoid (I know he isn't scared of this as he's evented in the past to a very high level). He seems to be extremely unsettled in the field also, he is always looking around for things to jump out and seems to use any excuse to have a good gallop about!! As you can imagine with all this rain it isnt helping my paddocks so I am desperate to try and stop him. We have pigs across from our field and he seems to be absolutely terrified of them. I'm unsure if this is the root of the problem? The pigs cannot be moved and so I don't know what else to do. Tonight when I was bringing him in from the field he tanked off up to the stable block and was charging around before I eventually caught him again. I don't know what to do to try and settle him down. Currently the only time I think he is genuinely settled is in his stable and even then he still looks for danger constantly. He is on 25ml of Karma a day and gets one small scoop of hi Fi lite twice daily and a cup of lo cal at night with 10lbs of hay.


I've had differing advice, but I'm unsure what to do. PLEASE HELP!!
 
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A couple of thoughts, he has moved twice in under 12 months, was he refusing to just jump planks or is there possibly more to it, if he was really good eventing previously you would have expected them to try a little longer than one short season to get the new rider and him to gel, to totally give up and sell for dressage mid winter would maybe ring a few alarm bells but not sure which ones!

The pigs could be the root cause of his stressy behaviour, he may be really terrified and unable to ever relax when outside and "under threat", some will never settle in an environment that has something they find that threatening, a behaviourist may be worth considering if only to rule out the pigs, or sending him away for a short time to see if he changes in a different yard but in light of the refusing, although it will not be relevant to what you want to do I would probably get a vet check done just in case there is an underlying issue that means he is in slight pain as that can make them feel stressed.
 
How much turnout does he get? My Connie is spooky, at regular objects, white blocks, bottle of lucozade on fence, last week it was at a white bag full of chippings in the field we were hacking in, he literally passaged 20 metres away from it.. He was god awful couple weeks ago during a lesson my instructor actually had me get off!!! So what we have done is increase workload, is ridden twice some days, hard feed cut right back and calmer topped up. Out hacking I do lots of lateral work and transitions so he is focused on what I am asking and not on potential horse eating monsters.. Change is remarkable!

Also suggest good lunging session before hacking out...maybe the pace out hacking is too slow and he needs to be worked harder.
 
While some horses are very unsettled by a move and behave out of character, I'd be questioning a physical cause behind his behaviour. What reason was given for his career change ? I'd have a full MOT done on the lad.
 
Thank you all so much for your advice he passed a full 5 stage vetting before we bought him and has had a new saddle fully fitted do I've ruled out any pain causing the behaviour.

I think I may need to work him harder and cut down more on his feed 'showpony', thanks for that. Thank you also 'be positive' we were told he had stopped jumping planks although I suspect it wasn't just them as they lost about £4,000 on him. We had references from the DC before we bought him so I think it may be the pigs but I just don't know if they can be de-sensitised if they are that scared of them. Thanks again for all the advice, any more would be much appreciated!
 
Having read your initial post, I would suspect the following:

Pony is a smart, capable and intelligent creature and is possibly a bit sharp or quick to take advantage where possible. This never became an issue with the eventing owner, who you have described as very experienced - pony knew his place, knew what was expected of him and was kept well occupied.

Pony was sold to 15 year old and, over time, standards of behaviour etc began to slip as 15yo did not have the knowledge/help/determination/guts/gumption (delete as appropriate) to keep a bright, capable and quick pony occupied sufficiently.

Obviously this is oversimplified and massively condensed, but I suspect you may have to ride him through it and be prepared to continue having the arguments and re-drawing the boundaries of acceptable behaviour until pony realises that you are not the 15 year old and this sort of crap doesn't fly with you. Find a method of getting him through the napping and stick with it. As for the behaviour in hand, if you need to lead him in a bridle or chifney for safety's sake, then do.

RE: Pigs, he's going to have to learn to live with them somehow, as they're nearby, so another case of "grin and bear it". My boy spent YEARS being terrified of cows. We spent countless hours arguing about whether we were going to go past this or that field with cows and over time he did eventually give up.
 
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I haven't tried jumping him myself 'showpony' as I had a bad fall a few years ago and only jump my New Forest at present as I completely trust him! It's me being a wimp I know but I really want him just for dressage and showing although I suspect I may have to muster up the courage as I imagine he will do best in the workers. I know exactly what you are saying though as my NF will spook at a jump if you ride him past it but the minute you attempt to jump it he's straight over it!! With regards to walking him in hand past the pigs I've not yet tried that but think it may be the next step. I've fenced off a paddock right next to the pigs to limit the damage he does to the field and to try and get him used to them!! He's turned out around 7.30am and comes into his stable at about 5.30pm.

'Alphanumeric' I think you've hit the nail on the head! I think he's just trying it on and I just need to be firm and stick it out until he realises he's not getting away with it! I don know if you have any advice as to how you de-sensitised your boy to cows? Or was it just time, patience and not letting him get away with it? Thank you so much for your advice, any more much appreciated!
 
Might be worth jumping on the lunge or loose to try and engage his brain and get him onside so to speak.

Is it the blue chip calmer you are feeding? That's a magnesium based one that doesn't work with all horses, might be worth a look at Equifest calmer as theirs is differently based, or in the short term getting valerian- banned in comps but fine for use at home and during settling.

Keep at it sounds like you have a cracking pony that just needs to settle and remember!
 
Hi 'dianchi' thank you so much, especially for the advice on calmers as I am totally clueless as I've not needed to use one in the past. Which calmer would you recommend? Ideally I want one I can keep him on for the foreseeable future! Is Valerian quite strong? I wouldn't mind using this to settle him initially! Thanks again, so much!
 
My mare used to be very nappy, she had a load of time off over Christmas due to an injury so did very little, our first solo hack out in ages the other day and as we were leaving we bumped into her two friends coming home.

She spun and tried to canter home twice, each time I got her going the correct way. I decided as it was so wet that spinning and cantering wasn't a good idea so I lead her across the field. Got on again in the next field and the same thing happened, except this time we slid down a hill into a hedge.

So again, I hopped off, lead her though the rest of the open fields (about a mile from our yard now) and into the woods, as soon as I was in the woods with the gate shut behind me, I hopped on. At this point she realised there was no easy way to go home and we carried on and had a good ride. I'll do this until she settles again but that, mixed with a few good hacks with her mates helps to settle her.
 
Thank you so much for the link to the form dianchi, I have completed it and am awaiting heir feedback, thank you!

Thank you also Dizzle, I think that your method may be best to just work him through it and ensure he is never allowed to get away with it, I will continue to persevere and try taking him out frequently with another horse to build his confidence. Did your mare eventually snap out of it before she injured herself?
 
Do you have anyone working with you? It's very difficult to give pertinent advice without seeing and exactly the right advice for one situation might spell disaster in another. There are systematic, tested ways to deal with the behaviours you're seeing - quite often trial and error and time does get the job done but I'm always a fan of quicker, easier and safer. There also might be specific limitations or opportunities in your situation that affect how you deal with the horse.

Re pigs, they can be a real problem for some horses. I know there is no option for you but I know horses that have changed beyond all recognition going into/coming out of yards with pigs. Some chemical help might very well make the situation easier but ideally you want to use it as part of a desensitization/training program with the goal of coming off it asap.
 
I think when they are highly strung like that & silly/stupid it is because they are in pain , have you had all the checks done? Could be fundamental pain in the body or pain from the way he is being ridden, I bet he doesn't carry himself well and is tight and tense in his way of going under saddle?
 
Melms92 said:
Hi 'dianchi' thank you so much, especially for the advice on calmers as I am totally clueless as I've not needed to use one in the past. Which calmer would you recommend? Ideally I want one I can keep him on for the foreseeable future! Is Valerian quite strong? I wouldn't mind using this to settle him initially! Thanks again, so much!
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Cheapest way is to feed pure MagOx as that is the main ingredient of most calmers. I would suggest cutting all hard feed except for a tiny amount of unmollased sugar beet to carry the MagOx.
 
I don't, at present, have anyone working with me as I don't have a school but think the next stage will have to be to get some professional help/advice. I am currently in the process of getting a new car and so do not have a tow bar at present but I feel you are right TarrSteps as I'm keen to nip this in the bud and resolve it ASAP! Re the pigs, do you know of any way in which I could get him used to them (currently I've made his paddock so that he is next to them during turnout - there are only 2 of them!) I'm not sure if this is making the situation worse or acting to de-sensitise him!

I have had him 5 stage vetted before we bought him DonkeyClub, he passed everything, the vet even said he was surprised as he had previously evented/hunted. He also has had his back checked regularly and had a new saddle fitted when we bought him. I usually go to pain first also but as he has just started trying to nap and was fine for the first two weeks after we bought him I think it may be more to do with fear, anxiety or testing the waters a little. I suspect it may be a combination?

Thank you re the calmers also Broke_But_Happy, I've ordered him valerian as another lady on here recommended and at the moment I have no intention of competing. I have been using Blue Chips Karma which is magnesium based although I haven't had much success. Pure magnesium may be more effective though, have you had success with pure version?
 
Re getting help and not having a school. That will necessitate the need to travel for lessons, I agree. But your issues now are happening at home so I would say that is currently where you need the help. Going elsewhere may very well bring up the same issues but maybe not, and anyway, that doesn't necessarily give you the best short term coping mechanisms when you're on your own.

Re flooding with the pigs being helpful or not, I really cannot say without seeing how the horse reacts. You are right though, it certainly can make things worse!
 
DonkeyClub said:
I think when they are highly strung like that & silly/stupid it is because they are in pain , have you had all the checks done? Could be fundamental pain in the body or pain from the way he is being ridden, I bet he doesn't carry himself well and is tight and tense in his way of going under saddle?
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I don't disagree with you, especialy the point that discomfort can come from way of going, not just physical pathology, but I would also make the point that mental discomfort can be a huge factor as well, in combination with/following on from a physical issue or by itself. It's very easy to "train" horses to be worried and, given their status as prey animals, this can produce some pretty extreme results, especially if there is already physical stress creating a downward spiral. We seem to have got in the habit if thinking "pain" has to be simply and only a veterinary issue but discomfort is a much wider field.

(Technically speaking, this is the theory behind mag calmers - the horse is uncomfortable because of a lower than ideal level of magnesium. Of course, that is open for debate that this cannot and does not apply to every horse. Something live valerian is a sedative - rather like taking a swig from the hip flask before setting out hunting. ;))
 
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In my (admittedly limited) opinion pigs are the one thing that sends some horses completely bonkers. Desensitisation and training works wonders with all sorts of problems...apart from this subgroup of horses and pigs. If he appears stressed 24/7 simply in the presence of pigs he may be one of those horses.

Can the pigs be moved? Can he be moved yards?
 
Sounds testing just like mine used to be, but we got there in the end. You could try leading in hand out on a shortened version of your hacking route, with a bridle on for control and see if it is any different without rider on. If he is more settled could then progress to someone walking next to you and if necessary with lead rope attached, don't be embarrassed about this sometimes you have to step backwards before you move forwards. Gradually build up from there. Do you have lessons from someone, if not might be worth getting hold of a good instructor to help you work through the issues. Good luck hope all goes well :)
 
Thank you all so much for your help and advice, it is very much appreciated. In response to the pigs, unfortunately they cannot be moved as the lady who owns them keeps them as pets and also owns the land I've recently built my new stables on! I've ordered him valerian and hope that it may settle him around the pigs? Meanwhile I've fenced his paddock off next to the pigs and put my NF pony in too, he's a saint and I'm hoping he may reassure him where the pigs are concerned? Do you know if horses ultimately get used to pigs or overcome their fear, by exposure?

Thanks also for the advice re instructors, I definitely think you're right and have got the task of setting up a school at the weekend so I can get a instructor in.

If anybody has any useful tips about riding a horse through napping then any help would be much appreciated! Thanks again to all those who've responded!
 
Did you get my PM? I tried to send you one last night but the forum was doing something odd (on my computer anyway) and then I sent something again this morning. So you could have 3 of nearly the same message or you could have nothing - I'm not sure as I stupidly didn't press the "Keep a copy in sent items" button. Duuuuuh.
 
I don't think you can predict with the pigs. I've known two that never did get okay with them, despite living on the same property. I seem to remember someone on here had to move their horse from a pig farm. That said, horses get used to all sorts of things so all you can do is give it a go.

Re an instructor, I'll say again, get someone who can help you with the problems you are having NOW. Getting him going well in the school will likely be helpful but you said yourself, you're mostly going to hack right now and that's where the issues are showing up. They should also be able to advise more fully on the pig situation as they'll be able to see it in the flesh.
 
My old yard was a pig farm - most horses did get used to them, but we had a couple who never did, even after a few years. One mare just had to be moved as she was so stressed, and another gelding didn't seem stressed about the pigs, just always seemed naughty, difficult to handle etc. When his owner moved house, he went too, and she said he became a different horse at the new yard, totally chilled. So although we thought he'd accepted them he clearly hadn't. He had displayed similar behaviour to yours, was spooky and nappy even when hacked a long way from the yard.
My money would be on the pigs, but sorry I have nothing to offer by way of help with that..... I hope some of the suggestions here will help!
 
way back ,reading this post ,was going to suggest you contact Tarr Steps, glad she picked up the post and would thoroughly endorse her opinions! PS , wipe some pig poo on their nostrils and they wont even notice the pigs.
 
That was me Tarr Steps! I had a horse that was very difficult around pigs and I moved him to a livery yard that was also a pig farm. We tried everything, e.g. gradual exposure, a nice calm buddy, turning him out next to pigs and leaving him to it. By the end of the summer he was unhandlable, I couldn't do much with him and he had lost all his mane and tail so he was seriously stressed. We moved yards and he was fine.

Then again Rusky is very weary of pigs but with strong riding and a confident companion you can get him past.
 
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