Nappy pony!!

[Merri]

Please could I get your thoughts?

We bought a new pony about 3 weeks ago. She's been out of work all winter, possibly longer. She's got a really lovely temperament in the stable, and on the ground. Daughter (15 yo) isn't doing much schooling, as that was the vet's advice, do more hacking out to ease pony back into work.

When we moved her onto the livery yard, we had to wait to have her worm tested before she was allowed to be turned out. Daughter was taking her on short hacks, all was fine. Since going out in the field full time, she has become very nappy on hacks. Pony can buck, spin around, lifts front feet off the ground (I wouldn't describe as a full rear.) It's very intimidating, and not helped by the fact that she's doing it on a very narrow pathway. (We are limited as to hacking out without going on a road first, & I had told daughter that she cannot go on *any* roads 'till she's done her road safe course & exam with BHS in 5 weeks time.)

Daughter is trying very hard with her, but it's really unsettling. I walk along with them, put her on the lead rope when she acts up (on the narrow path) she's spinning around, obviously trying to get back to the comfort of her field. At other points where it's more open, daughter is managing her more easily. (behaviour is just the same.)

Thoughts on how best to manage this please?

Teeth, back, tack etc are fine. Hack is short; 15-20 minutes max, then turn and go home. All in walk (as she is unfit.) She is the model pony on the way home, doesn't rush / bolt, or show any of the above behaviour. Perfectly happy.

Thank you.

 

[be positive]

As a YO and instructor I am always shocked when I read this type of post, to buy a pony that is an unknown quantity for a novice 15 year old makes me extremely concerned, you need some experienced help before this gets any worse, you have no idea whether this is ingrained behaviour, it may be why she was out of work even if you were given another story by the seller, it could be due to pain or because the pony does not feel confident in her rider and handler, whatever the cause you need some help to get to the bottom of it, you are right to keep them off the roads and for now they may be best staying in an arena or small paddock, plenty can be done in walk to help your daughter gain control and build up confidence while the pony gets fitter.

She may be good going home but turning round is not helping the napping and you do want to be careful that she doesn't start to rush when you turn round, if you are going out try to do a loop rather than turning around, she should be more than able to do 30-40 mins by now and ideally going out in company with another pony if anyone is prepared to accompany her.

Above all get help from someone who can deal with this with you.

 

[Merri]

Thank you for your reply.

Daughter rode the pony before we purchased, both in the school, and hacking out. A loop isn't possible, I'm afraid. All I am able to do atm is to turn around at different points. Hacked out yesterday with another pony, was ok on lead rein. Daughter went out on her own today with a friend & her pony, but was nappy & got the other pony unsettled.

 

[Merri]

I should also add, she's fine ridden in the school, and on the lunge.

 

[wkiwi]

Agree with 'be positive' - get some professional help before it becomes a big issue.
New horses nearly always test out their boundaries, just like kids. At the moment your pony is testing out her new 'teacher' and finding that she doesn't really have to do what teacher says unless she wants to.
If it is just that she is testing out your daughter, then it is just a matter of giving your daughter the skills to cope with the situation (and i'm not talking beating the pony or anything), but if the pony does not have the skills either then it means help for your daughter to train the pony too.
Don't be fooled into thinking that a pony that behaves at times (but only when it wants to) is schooled. A pony is only schooled when it is obedient to the aids/signals and nappiness is a sign of either not knowing or not responding to the aids (as long as it is receiving the correct signals). As the pony gets her way more and more the next stages on from simple nappiness include things like bucking, rearing (higher and higher), spinning, and (at best) refusing to leave the yard. In my opinion, this is not the sort of thing that can be fixed by advice over a forum but needs someone on the ground to talk your daughter through what she should be doing from moment to moment depending on the ponies reaction/schooling etc.
So, it is fixable - but get it sorted as soon as possible to stop it escalating.

 

[be positive]

If she was good when you tried her it could be for many reasons, I don't expect she went out for a proper hack on her own, most sellers would not allow that and most will accompany the pony on foot even if they are not actually leading the pony it will take confidence from the person they know, so it may be that she is just unsettled and testing in the way she has been although most genuine ponies would not play up in company or if led by someone on the ground which is why I suspect this is not new and requires help from someone before it gets worse or causes an accident to your daughter.
Everyone needs help at some point, regular lessons can involve helping with hacking or any other issues that the rider is struggling with and at this stage are an essential investment, if she is good in the school a sensible step would be to have a short lesson then go for a walk to chill out, this can really help if the pony sets off relaxed after some work and if she is good that is a positive note to end on and can be built up little by little.

 

[Merri]

Agree with 'be positive' - get some professional help before it becomes a big issue.
New horses nearly always test out their boundaries, just like kids. At the moment your pony is testing out her new 'teacher' and finding that she doesn't really have to do what teacher says unless she wants to.
If it is just that she is testing out your daughter, then it is just a matter of giving your daughter the skills to cope with the situation (and i'm not talking beating the pony or anything), but if the pony does not have the skills either then it means help for your daughter to train the pony too.
Don't be fooled into thinking that a pony that behaves at times (but only when it wants to) is schooled. A pony is only schooled when it is obedient to the aids/signals and nappiness is a sign of either not knowing or not responding to the aids (as long as it is receiving the correct signals). As the pony gets her way more and more the next stages on from simple nappiness include things like bucking, rearing (higher and higher), spinning, and (at best) refusing to leave the yard. In my opinion, this is not the sort of thing that can be fixed by advice over a forum but needs someone on the ground to talk your daughter through what she should be doing from moment to moment depending on the ponies reaction/schooling etc.
So, it is fixable - but get it sorted as soon as possible to stop it escalating.

Thank you. We have her next lesson booked for Friday. I've planned to see if I can speak to her instructor and arrange help before then.

 

[Merri]

If she was good when you tried her it could be for many reasons, I don't expect she went out for a proper hack on her own, most sellers would not allow that and most will accompany the pony on foot even if they are not actually leading the pony it will take confidence from the person they know, so it may be that she is just unsettled and testing in the way she has been although most genuine ponies would not play up in company or if led by someone on the ground which is why I suspect this is not new and requires help from someone before it gets worse or causes an accident to your daughter.
Everyone needs help at some point, regular lessons can involve helping with hacking or any other issues that the rider is struggling with and at this stage are an essential investment, if she is good in the school a sensible step would be to have a short lesson then go for a walk to chill out, this can really help if the pony sets off relaxed after some work and if she is good that is a positive note to end on and can be built up little by little.

Thank you, that's helpful. We actually started her lessons with instructor last week (she's booked in weekly) I'm going to see if I can speak to instructor before then & arrange for more help.

 

[be positive]

Thank you, that's helpful. We actually started her lessons with instructor last week (she's booked in weekly) I'm going to see if I can speak to instructor before then & arrange for more help.

If the instructor is good they will want to get involved and should be able to come up with a plan of action which may include them riding her a few times or doing some groundwork with her, I tend to long rein them out rather than ride as it avoids a fight but ensures they go alone in the true sense with no one "holding their hoof" I have sorted a couple of tricky mares with a few sessions on long reins but it does take experience to get it right, be prepared to get her in almost daily for a week or two so you can really make progress.

 

[Merri]

Don't be fooled into thinking that a pony that behaves at times (but only when it wants to) is schooled. A pony is only schooled when it is obedient to the aids/signals and nappiness is a sign of either not knowing or not responding to the aids (as long as it is receiving the correct signals).

Yes, I undertand. We've worked on very basic things, such as standing still when being mounted. She would immediately walk off, but daughter has schooled her to stand until told to move off. And food, daughter mixes her feed in a gated off area at the back of the stable. Pony likes to pop her head over and investigate Daughter has been very consistent with teaching her to wait until her food bucket has been put on the floor, and not pushing with her nose for it. She picks things up quickly, such as picking up her hoof when told 'hoof!' However, that's probably part of the problem; because the track is narrow, she's getting away with the napping, unless I'm leading her while daughter rides.
She's a pretty dominant mare in the field with the other ponies...

 

[Merri]

If the instructor is good they will want to get involved and should be able to come up with a plan of action which may include them riding her a few times or doing some groundwork with her, I tend to long rein them out rather than ride as it avoids a fight but ensures they go alone in the true sense with no one "holding their hoof" I have sorted a couple of tricky mares with a few sessions on long reins but it does take experience to get it right, be prepared to get her in almost daily for a week or two so you can really make progress.

will do, thank you

 

[Shay]

You really need a professional alongside -and quickly. Did you have her vetted? If not you need to do so now. Pain could be at the root of her issues. But I'm afraid the likelihood is that this is ingrained - whether pain is current or historical. It does no good now to go on about the red flags in your post. The important thing is that you have bought this pony now and for your daughter's sake you need to make this work if it can possibly be made to be. And - as BP has suggested - that may well take having your instructor in daily for a while. Get help. Get it now. And persist with it as long, and as often as you need to. Hopefully there is a lovely partner for your daughter in there waiting to be found.

 

[Merri]

You really need a professional alongside -and quickly. Did you have her vetted? If not you need to do so now. Pain could be at the root of her issues. But I'm afraid the likelihood is that this is ingrained - whether pain is current or historical. It does no good now to go on about the red flags in your post. The important thing is that you have bought this pony now and for your daughter's sake you need to make this work if it can possibly be made to be. And - as BP has suggested - that may well take having your instructor in daily for a while. Get help. Get it now. And persist with it as long, and as often as you need to. Hopefully there is a lovely partner for your daughter in there waiting to be found.

We had a 5 stage vetting. The vet was enthralled with her. He asked how much I was paying for her, I told him X amount, & said that he thought that she was worth at least what worked out to be an additional £1200. He said we needed to 'snap her up'. He advised us that she was unfit (which we were aware of) & that she needed bring back into work gradually.

 

[scats]

Turning to come home from a hack will make sorting this situation out very difficult. Ideally you need a short circular route to work with but obviously if you don’t have that you can’t do much about that and will have to work with what you’ve got.

Sorting nappy hackers out is something I’ve had a lot of success with, not really by choice, I must add, but simply that I have acquired a few over the years and as I hack out alone, the horses have no choice but to get on with it. Most recent mare was a bit of a pain and still will use something as an excuse to stop, reverse, spin and buck/hump, albeit not as much and is easier to send on now. When she arrived a twenty minute hack would take an hour and we spent the majority of it in reverse or in the air.

I could tell you how I deal with it, but it varies depending on the horse and situation so would be difficult to translate to your horse and I’m not sure how much help it would be. You do need to be insistent, persistent and confident to deal with this though. And be willing to sit out there for as long as needed.
You need a knowldeagable person to give you a hand at this stage- perhaps your instructor or a local professional who deals with these issues.

 

[Merri]

Turning to come home from a hack will make sorting this situation out very difficult. Ideally you need a short circular route to work with but obviously if you don’t have that you can’t do much about that and will have to work with what you’ve got.

Sorting nappy hackers out is something I’ve had a lot of success with, not really by choice, I must add, but simply that I have acquired a few over the years and as I hack out alone, the horses have no choice but to get on with it. Most recent mare was a bit of a pain and still will use something as an excuse to stop, reverse, spin and buck/hump, albeit not as much and is easier to send on now. When she arrived a twenty minute hack would take an hour and we spent the majority of it in reverse or in the air.

I could tell you how I deal with it, but it varies depending on the horse and situation so would be difficult to translate to your horse and I’m not sure how much help it would be. You do need to be insistent, persistent and confident to deal with this though. And be willing to sit out there for as long as needed.
You need a knowldeagable person to give you a hand at this stage- perhaps your instructor or a local professional who deals with these issues.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. I understand that you may not wish to give out advice on the internet.

Daughter's instructor is part time & not working today. Daughter insisted on taking pony out again. They had a battle of wills, which (eventually) resulted in pony going forward nicely. They ended on a good note, so to speak, then daughter turned pony 'round & brought her home. Pony was impeccably behaved as always on the return.

It appears that both pony & daughter are strong willed.

 

[Merri]

Hello everyone

I wanted to take the time to update on this thread for those who were kind enough to offer their thoughts.

Although we tried to seek professional help, we ended up having to keep going with this alone.

The yard that pony is kept on is a riding school, & daughter has a private lesson 2 x week. However, the school won't give lessons off their property, so we couldn't use daughter's usual (& fantastic!) instructor. I arranged for a local 'instructor' to come over, however, her insurance wasn't enough for the riding school, and, as the lady wanted to see daughter on the ground with the pony, and then ride in the school first before going on hack, we couldn't do that either.

So, we've just kept working on it. As time has gone on, and they've got to know each other, daughter has been able to sort things out. I think that it was a combination of pony being a little genuinely 'spooky', but then daughter just letting her get away with it. We had a lot of advice at the time which daughter wasn't comfortable with, such as really 'beating the pony', so that she knew 'who was boss'. As they've got to know each other, both ridden and on the ground, daughter has become more confident in how to handle the pony when she began playing up.

It was quite difficult at times, but we've just pushed on, and now daughter hacks out alone really happily, with a safe pony. Pony still has the odd nappy moment, but nothing that isn't resolved with a vocal rebuke and leg.

Thank you again, everyone.