Nappy, swishy, reluctant to go forwards, planting…..

[Frumpoon]

….sounds like tummy ache of some description right?

Vet et al think ulcers unlikely at this stage but possibly hind gut acidosis or gut flora imbalance….

Oily herbs in progress
Equibiome general supplement on order
Coopers on order

What else can I do?

 

[milliepops]

Why do vets think ulcers are unlikely? My mare was exactly like that and had glandular and squamous ulcers despite looking the picture of health ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'd book a scope for foregut ulcers. They can't be ruled out without one.

Although you're already on those lines, you could also get the equibiome test done, although results take 8-10 weeks to come back.

 

[Frumpoon]

Why do vets think ulcers are unlikely? My mare was exactly like that and had glandular and squamous ulcers despite looking the picture of health ?

I guess it’s a balance of probabilities

He’s been out of racing 18 months and living out on a mainly forage only diet that whole time. He’s been on holidays/rehab for 8 months and was in light hacking work prior to that.

Scoping is an invasive procedure. I’ll do it if the other stuff doesn’t work but I’d rather not put him through it as a first port of call.

 

[Frumpoon]

I'd book a scope for foregut ulcers. They can't be ruled out without one.

Although you're already on those lines, you could also get the equibiome test done, although results take 8-10 weeks to come back.

Definitely the biome test is the next step if he doesn’t look happier after a month of the basic supplement

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is that the prebiotic? My mare perked up after just under a fortnight on it. I'd already sent her poo off for the biome analysis, which later confirmed how off her gut flora was.

I had had her scoped first for foregut ulcers. The procedure isnt too bad, I left her at clinic overnight and they scoped her first thing (they have to be starved beforehand). Everyone was shocked that she scoped clear, but it was very useful information.

 

[Frumpoon]

I’ve had 3 scoped no, make that 4…I’d rather not put a horse through it unnecessarily if I can

 

[Lammy]

You could be describing my horse back in March. He was showing all the above behaviours with the addition of being a little bit girthy to tack up which was unusual for him. He’d been on a gut supplement over winter as he’d come in poor, came off the gut supplement and a month later was refusing to go forward off the leg and quite obviously not happy. He lives out, always has forage available, always eats before a ride and is generally not stressed.

I’m glad I scoped as it turned out he didn’t have ulcers he had an inflamed stomach and just needed treating for that. I think his one night of hunger was worth getting him sorted, the scope itself wasn’t bad at all.

 

[Frumpoon]

Ok you’ve persuaded me

I’ll talk to vet about scope

 

[Flicker]

Have you had a lameness workup? Behaviour that you describe can also indicate SI dysfunction.

 

[Frano]

Is he just nappy etc on his own or with other horses? Have known a couple perfect in company but try to take them out on their own and they were awful, nappy planting reversing etc.

 

[scats]

Could be ulcers, but could also be a number of other things- suspensories, hocks, SI pain.

 

[w1bbler]

My ulcer horse was out 24/7 light work, fat, shiny coat & had grade 2 ulcers.
Those symptoms could be ulcers or could be loads of other things. If diet & lifestyle are not the cause it might be worth spending your money looking for a cause before worrying about scoping & treating any ulcers as they will come back until the cause is found.

 

[Frumpoon]

Have you had a lameness workup? Behaviour that you describe can also indicate SI dysfunction.

Yes

 

[Frumpoon]

Is he just nappy etc on his own or with other horses? Have known a couple perfect in company but try to take them out on their own and they were awful, nappy planting reversing etc.

Both

 

[spacefaer]

Symptoms also sounds like a saddle that's too tight

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Definitely would scope to rule it out otherwise even supplements won't actually heal ulcers.

If that is clear then I would look at pssm or other muscle myopathies.
My boy is type 2 suspected, we treat him like it and yesterday I stupidly rode him when he came in from the feild cold. He told me in no uncertain terms that he was hurting, hunching up, kicking out when leg on and reluctant to go forwards. Gave him a warm mash and then out back out. Warned up later so a friend rode him so I could video and he was perfect
I had just treated him like a normal horse ?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Sounds like a high chance of ulcers.

Some studies have found over 90% of racers have stomach ulcers.

They dont have to have all the signs, they can be good doers, they can already be living out 24/7, have adlib forage etc etc but he's definitely telling you something, I'd scope.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Mine had the same symptoms and has been diagnosed with spondylitis , which is similar ish to kissing spine but with no treatment and new bone formation.

 

[Melody Grey]

Definitely scope. Also consider/ check saddle fit if you haven’t already. I know it’s obvious, but can make an awful lot of difference for something easily remedied.

 

[skint1]

Got a mare with similar symptoms- she had grade 2/3 ulcers and expected to have hind gut acidosis or ulcers, these were secondary to other issues with SI/back and hocks. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it, best of luck! x

 

[Muddywellies]

Mine was like that. She had grade 3 ulcers.

 

[Frumpoon]

Is there any benefit to feeding both the Coopers and the Equibiome prebiotic?

 

[horsimous]

Is he the same if you ride bareback?

 

[Fransurrey]

Have you checked his sheath? My horse becomes grumpy and even kicks at his belly if there's any hardened smegma in there, so I routinely check for sharp bits. Unlikely, maybe, but it's an easy check to do with some lube!

 

[Frumpoon]

Is he the same if you ride bareback?

He’s a 17hh thoroughbred currently with a prominent wither and no topline….I have a reasonably high pain threshold but there are limits ?

After a short stroll tonight I’m more convinced than ever it’s a residual tummy issue of some kind

The biome powder and the coopers were started today and the oily herbs were started 2 weeks or so ago - they’ve caused splotty poo in 2 of my others but that’s another story

 

[Frumpoon]

Have you checked his sheath? My horse becomes grumpy and even kicks at his belly if there's any hardened smegma in there, so I routinely check for sharp bits. Unlikely, maybe, but it's an easy check to do with some lube!

Sparkling clean ?