National Farrier Training Agency failed.

Tell me about it, the childish attitude the FRC has taken up towards the barefoot associations is frankly laughable.

Equally, the in-squabbling between the barefooters needs to be stamped out and they need to present a united front.

This can't go on... how can you take anyone seriously???
 
I don't see why trimmers need to be qualified farriers. That isn't the point surely? If required they can refer to a farrier for shoeing. The whole reason barefoot has developed and taken off was people looking for other ways than shoeing as the norm that they saw as causing damage in the long term. :confused:

ps. The modern big names in barefoot were farriers or vets. They saw that new ways of thinking centered round understanding the horse as a species was needed.
 
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Faracat said:
My Farrier was telling me recently how there are a few horses on his books with good hooves that don't need to be shod and yet the owner wants them shod. He said that he's trying to slowly and carefully to introduce the idea to them, that the horses would be better off without shoes. He said it's an uphill battle because the general horsekeeping public still believes that to hack a horse you need to shoe it. One apparently is only ever worked on a surface and the owner still insists on it being shod.
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This farrier is evidently an honest, experienced and skilled man.

So many people complain about their farriers, but how about looking at the situation from the farriers point of view. There must be thousands of owners who are only interested in the cheapest set of shoes available, owners with no knowledge of the equine foot or the correct way of going for a horse. These owners are the life blood of poor farriers. Nothing is going to change and nothing is going to improve the quality of life for the horses in this vicious cycle. Many good farriers struggle to keep horses comfortable - why? - because the owners will only call them out after the shoes have been on for 3 months before twisting and tearing off half of a perfectly good hoof, the farrier is then expected to right the damage, and if he can't patch it up, the farrier is then classed as useless.

I recently witnessed a horse, with problem feet, being shod very late at night, stood in a straw box with the farrier who attended, using a headtorch. The end result was not good, but the owner was happy having paid 70% less than the farrier I would have recommended using.

Reading all the foot related threads makes me realise how lucky I and my horses have been, my farrier has worked for me for over 30 years and has only ever had the best interests of the horses in his mind. My horse will not be ridden more than 3 times a week for the foreseeable future, due to my health problems, my farrier told me he will be taking the shoes off as he is confident the horse will be able to work without shoes. He was and the horse is hacking happily barefoot. The benefit from this move is in my pocket, the cobs feet but the farrier is £80 down every 4 weeks so it certainly did not benefit him.

There must be nothing more frustrating for a caring, professional farrier than a clueless horse owner.
 
amandap said:
I don't see why trimmers need to be qualified farriers. That isn't the point surely? If required they can refer to a farrier for shoeing. The whole reason barefoot has developed and taken off was people looking for other ways than shoeing as the norm that they saw as causing damage in the long term. :confused:
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I don't think it would hurt for a barefoot trimmer to do a semester in shoeing though...

I know the EP course has a module in shoeing trained by a farrier.
 
I agree an understanding of shoeing is needed but I don't feel the full farrier training is of benefit to those that wish to trim and offer a whole horse service.
They might all decide to only shoe! :D
 
And again PR you show you complete and utterly ludicrous ego.

I've got one BF and one shod, neither have got issues. I did however have a mare with a blown tendond. Took her BF to try and help the tendon and he leg in general as advised to but nope didn't work so ended up with a stint in heartbars, instant change in the leg, swelling was down within weeks and the list goes on. Went back in normal she's before she was sold sound.

BF and shod both have their merits, but the people doing it have to know what they are doing and be willing to learn on the job.
 
Pale Rider said:
The sooner shoeing is forgotten about the better. Let it die.
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Even I don't agree with that PR!! I could be called fanatical about feet! :D

It's the shoeing everything that has hooves that has to stop, not shoeing altogether.
 
Black Beastie said:
And again PR you show you complete and utterly ludicrous ego.

I've got one BF and one shod, neither have got issues. I did however have a mare with a blown tendond. Took her BF to try and help the tendon and he leg in general as advised to but nope didn't work so ended up with a stint in heartbars, instant change in the leg, swelling was down within weeks and the list goes on. Went back in normal she's before she was sold sound.

BF and shod both have their merits, but the people doing it have to know what they are doing and be willing to learn on the job.
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Good for you, :D
 
Pale Rider said:
The sooner shoeing is forgotten about the better. Let it die.
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Hell yes!

Let's shoot all the horses with Cushings that isn't controlled completely by drugs; and all the horses with IR/EMS/EPSM even on a strict diet; and let pedal bone fractures mend any old how; and let's ban anyone who can't exercise their horse consistently through the winter from keeping a horse at all; and ban people from keeping good doers in yards with no starvation paddock, and then after that we could ....

Or perhaps not?

Let's keep this in perspective, shall we? Most horses live to a ripe old age without ever appearing to have any problems with shoes. Boots are a faff, illegal for most affiliated competition and some horses are so thin skinned they rub no matter what you do.

PR I am sad about your post. You raised a serious point that needed serious discussion and you ruined it with one comment :(
 
cptrayes said:
Hell yes!

Let's shoot all the horses with Cushings that isn't controlled completely by drugs; and all the horses with IR/EMS/EPSM even on a strict diet; and let pedal bone fractures mend any old how; and let's ban anyone who can't exercise their horse consistently through the winter from keeping a horse at all; and ban people from keeping good doers in yards with no starvation paddock, and then after that we could ....

Or perhaps not?

Let's keep this in perspective, shall we? Most horses live to a ripe old age without ever appearing to have any problems with shoes. Boots are a faff, illegal for most affiliated competition and some horses are so thin skinned they rub no matter what you do.

PR I am sad about your post. You raised a serious point that needed serious discussion and you ruined it with one comment :(
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I have a penchant for that, lol. :D
 
Pale Rider said:
If you believe that, so be it. :)
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I am not alone in believing that. The majority of horses in work will need to be shod. I doubt any horses will compete at Badminton without shoes. There will have been the odd racehorse running today minus hind shoes. In the morning they will be shod to enable them to return to normal work and training. Very few driving horses would be comfortable unshod and likewise hunters doing several days a week.

These working horses are owned and trained by people vastly more experienced that the individual that made such a ridiculous statement regarding not shoeing any equine. It appears evident the poster has no concept of the difference between a working horse and a pet pony.
I may be doing the poster an injustice of course, and if I am, I apologise and would welcome tips on how the poster maintains his team of top flight competitive and hard working horses without shoes.

Returning the original post, it is imperative that the National Farrier Agency ups its game and trains the next generation of farriers correctly to enable and ensure the horses in their care have the best possible foot care. Or shall we just stopping riding, putting halters on, shoeing, racing or, shock horror, merely emjoying our wonderful horses.
 
AdorableAlice said:
I am not alone in believing that. The majority of horses in work will need to be shod. I doubt any horses will compete at Badminton without shoes. There will have been the odd racehorse running today minus hind shoes. In the morning they will be shod to enable them to return to normal work and training. Very few driving horses would be comfortable unshod and likewise hunters doing several days a week.

These working horses are owned and trained by people vastly more experienced that the individual that made such a ridiculous statement regarding not shoeing any equine. It appears evident the poster has no concept of the difference between a working horse and a pet pony.
I may be doing the poster an injustice of course, and if I am, I apologise and would welcome tips on how the poster maintains his team of top flight competitive and hard working horses without shoes.

Returning the original post, it is imperative that the National Farrier Agency ups its game and trains the next generation of farriers correctly to enable and ensure the horses in their care have the best possible foot care. Or shall we just stopping riding, putting halters on, shoeing, racing or, shock horror, merely emjoying our wonderful horses.
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And I believe it too .
One of mine would never need shoes if he was eventing ( at a low level )or doing dressage or hunting one day a week to 2pm but as soon as he was hunting two days a week and out all day he got foot sore and I shod him he's now back out of shoes and will be reshod next hunting season .
At the point he became footsore I had a choice rest him until his feet recovered or shoe him and get on with the job in hand I choose to shoe because ultimately I keep him to use him .
 
AdorableAlice said:
The majority of horses in work will need to be shod.
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I do not believe that this is true.

I doubt any horses will compete at Badminton without shoes.
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This has nothing to do with whether they could do Badminton without shoes, and everything to do with whether the rider would be prepared to do Badminton without studs. Most dressage horses are shod. Are you suggesting that horses who only ever work on a surface really need shoes?

Very few driving horses would be comfortable unshod and likewise hunters doing several days a week.
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How do you know? My own opinion is that if the work was increased gradually enough, they could cope fine. Ramey's wife had hardworking driving horses.

Goldenstar, who answered you, needed to double her hunter's hunt work in one week, and her horse could not cope. Shoeing was a good solution for her and for the horse, but it does not mean that he would not have coped if the increase in work could have practically been done more slowly. Of course it could not in that case.


These working horses are owned and trained by people vastly more experienced that the individual that made such a ridiculous statement regarding not shoeing any equine. It appears evident the poster has no concept of the difference between a working horse and a pet pony.
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He has 30 barefoot horses, and though I think he went too far with that statement, he does know a thing or two about working horses with no shoes on :D

Neither of my hard working barefoot horses are 'pet ponies' and |I would find the suggestion quite insulting if I did not know that it stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of just how much work horses can do with no shoes on.


I may be doing the poster an injustice of course, and if I am, I apologise and would welcome tips on how the poster maintains his team of top flight competitive and hard working horses without shoes.
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You make a mistake in believing that only 'top flight' horses work hard. I have friend whose horses log hundreds and hundreds of miles per hunting season, twice a week, barefoot. I have myself evented two to BE novice. There are many long distance horses competing barefoot. Hard work barefoot is entirely possible, with many horses of all types.

For really hard work, a perfect diet and a graduated increase in work are essentials, but it absolutely is possible.
 
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