Ruth17
Well-Known Member
Can someone please explain the difference between "Native pony saddles" owned by Andrea hicks and the "native point saddle company" as well as the ones sold by the Saddle Exchange? Who is the original and the best/worst?
native pony saddles
- Thread starter Ruth17
- Start date
LessThanPerfect
Well-Known Member
Sorry, don't know the answer to your specific question although I THINK Andrea Hicks designs saddles for the Native Pony Saddle company.
If it helps, I know a lot of Native Pony owners who use Fylde saddles on their natives as being the best fit but never had one myself so can't speak from personal experience.
If it helps, I know a lot of Native Pony owners who use Fylde saddles on their natives as being the best fit but never had one myself so can't speak from personal experience.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Gosh its a long story. The best person to explain it fully is "sbloom" on here as there is a lot of confusing info.
I will not comment on that, or seek to explain the difficulties, it is not my place to do so. But I WILL tell of my experience with the Saddle Exchange www.saddleexchange.co.uk as I do not want anyone else to have the experience that I have. Please be aware that they have other subsidiary companies which are also part of their set-up as well. Reactor panel being one of them. They boast about the "big names" that are their customers, i.e. Endurance people, but when one asks questions and does research, one finds that a lot of the endurance people are "ex" customers and not current ones! Which says it all really.
The Saddle Exchange's proprietors are Gini and Dean Woodward. If one is buying one of their brand new saddles, they are over you like a rash, if you have a problem, you are treated like an infectious disease, they don't want to know. I have bought two of their saddles for my horses, and as a YO my livery/yard sharer bought three for hers. So I would estimate that I have put over £4000-worth of business their way if you include return visits for fittings etc.
When I bought their "Tor" saddle for my cob; it hadn't got out of its guarantee period very long before an indentation/dip started developing in the seat-bone area, plus the suede seat began to pucker and looked awful. I mentioned this at a fitting with Gini and Dean, and the suede was duly fixed. However the issue of the indentation was becoming worse to the extent that I was sitting crooked on the saddle and it was affecting my horse's back and way of going (obviously). Eventually my saddle was taken away, and I had an e-mail from Gini to say that "they would pay" for any repairs which needed doing.
So my saddle was taken away, for fixing, or so I thought............ and was away some weeks. I had to buy another saddle (a treeless one) as I had no saddle to use! I then ran into Dean and Gini at a local equine fair, and asked them what was happening about my saddle. Dean said that to repair my saddle would cost me £100!!!! This after the e-mail saying they would pay!!!! I then asked for my testimonial (which I had freely given them) to be removed from their website.
Things then got very acrimonious; I was told that the damage was caused not by a manufacturing defect, which I was suggesting, oh no it was "the way I rode", and/or "the way the horse goes" - any excuse basically - which was causing the problem!!! But the fact that they had given me an e-mail which said they would pay for the repair was conveniently forgotten, and the whole thing got very very unpleasant indeed. I notified BETA (whose membership they were affiliated to), plus Trading Standards.
In the end Dean Woodward did agree to buy my saddle back from me for £350........... but my view is that as a so-called valued customer then I shouldn't have had to argue the toss about it. I said repeatedly that I would consider either a (partial) Refund; Repair; or Replacement - how hard would any one of those options been? Instead of which I had to sell my saddle back to them for the price of their choosing as I really had no other choice. I feel I was penalised for something that wasn't my fault.
Dean Woodward has, to my knowledge, diddly squat saddle fitting qualifications.......... all he seems to do is ask the rider to trot the horse for a few paces, and that's it, sixty-five quid thanks very much. And with my saddle, he stuffed the panels so that they were uneven even to my untrained eye
There is more, which I will not put on here. Suffice it to say that if you have a native pony/cob and want a saddle fitted, you would be well to avoid!!! And I'm saying all this as someone who was, at one time, absolutely delighted with the saddle I had bought from them and had my testimony on their website. Had they fulfilled their obligations of customer service, I would still be happy to recommend them, now I would say avoid like the plague.
I will not comment on that, or seek to explain the difficulties, it is not my place to do so. But I WILL tell of my experience with the Saddle Exchange www.saddleexchange.co.uk as I do not want anyone else to have the experience that I have. Please be aware that they have other subsidiary companies which are also part of their set-up as well. Reactor panel being one of them. They boast about the "big names" that are their customers, i.e. Endurance people, but when one asks questions and does research, one finds that a lot of the endurance people are "ex" customers and not current ones! Which says it all really.
The Saddle Exchange's proprietors are Gini and Dean Woodward. If one is buying one of their brand new saddles, they are over you like a rash, if you have a problem, you are treated like an infectious disease, they don't want to know. I have bought two of their saddles for my horses, and as a YO my livery/yard sharer bought three for hers. So I would estimate that I have put over £4000-worth of business their way if you include return visits for fittings etc.
When I bought their "Tor" saddle for my cob; it hadn't got out of its guarantee period very long before an indentation/dip started developing in the seat-bone area, plus the suede seat began to pucker and looked awful. I mentioned this at a fitting with Gini and Dean, and the suede was duly fixed. However the issue of the indentation was becoming worse to the extent that I was sitting crooked on the saddle and it was affecting my horse's back and way of going (obviously). Eventually my saddle was taken away, and I had an e-mail from Gini to say that "they would pay" for any repairs which needed doing.
So my saddle was taken away, for fixing, or so I thought............ and was away some weeks. I had to buy another saddle (a treeless one) as I had no saddle to use! I then ran into Dean and Gini at a local equine fair, and asked them what was happening about my saddle. Dean said that to repair my saddle would cost me £100!!!! This after the e-mail saying they would pay!!!! I then asked for my testimonial (which I had freely given them) to be removed from their website.
Things then got very acrimonious; I was told that the damage was caused not by a manufacturing defect, which I was suggesting, oh no it was "the way I rode", and/or "the way the horse goes" - any excuse basically - which was causing the problem!!! But the fact that they had given me an e-mail which said they would pay for the repair was conveniently forgotten, and the whole thing got very very unpleasant indeed. I notified BETA (whose membership they were affiliated to), plus Trading Standards.
In the end Dean Woodward did agree to buy my saddle back from me for £350........... but my view is that as a so-called valued customer then I shouldn't have had to argue the toss about it. I said repeatedly that I would consider either a (partial) Refund; Repair; or Replacement - how hard would any one of those options been? Instead of which I had to sell my saddle back to them for the price of their choosing as I really had no other choice. I feel I was penalised for something that wasn't my fault.
Dean Woodward has, to my knowledge, diddly squat saddle fitting qualifications.......... all he seems to do is ask the rider to trot the horse for a few paces, and that's it, sixty-five quid thanks very much. And with my saddle, he stuffed the panels so that they were uneven even to my untrained eye
There is more, which I will not put on here. Suffice it to say that if you have a native pony/cob and want a saddle fitted, you would be well to avoid!!! And I'm saying all this as someone who was, at one time, absolutely delighted with the saddle I had bought from them and had my testimony on their website. Had they fulfilled their obligations of customer service, I would still be happy to recommend them, now I would say avoid like the plague.
Ruth17
Well-Known Member
Thanks that is useful. I currently have a sc saddle for my section d but now he's pretty much fully grown I wanted a nice one for him but got very confused by these two companies with very similar names!
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
May I suggest you PM "sbloom" who will clarify the situation.
4horses2many
New User
I bought 3 saddles from them and although two of three saddles are great and fit well the third has never fitted, rider was blamed but have tried umpteen different riders all with the same result it slips and is totally unsuited to the horse so I don't use it now, although I did see Andrea at West point and spoke to her and to be fair to her she said she would buy it off me to try and rectify the situation as I bought the saddles during the change over so she was still part of the Saddle Exchange then but the saddle was fitted by Gini originally.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Sorry I'm late to this, out fitting all day yesterday
Saddle Exchange Ltd was run by a couple - Andrea and Dean, Andrea who had bought the Native Pony brand about 15 years ago, and then brought her partner Dean in to work with her. The company split gradually through 2010, and it has been a bit of a saga since, for which I can only apologise.
Andrea has always designed the NPSC range since she bought it, and with her new company has continued to update the designs, and to search out the very best workshops to make the product, trying to provide the very best customer service. Dean and his new wife Gini set up Woodward and Woodward Ltd trading as Saddle Exchange Saddling Solutions, they kept the old website and telephone number. We were led to believe they would make Comfort saddles and act as agent for ReactorPanel, and we would make NPSC saddles, but they continued to make "Native Pony" saddles as well, so there were two identical sounding brands on the market. You would tell the difference in the flesh though, different designs, leather and makers.
In terms of fitters, three (myself and the two in Scotland, Clare and Diane) stayed with Andrea, Clare has actually been with the company longer than Andrea has owned it! We cover most of England/Scotland/Wales between us. I think Dean possiby has one fitter left from Saddle Exchange Ltd but has some new ones and some apparently in training.
Because of continual legal issues and challenges, from being in a position where we thought we would end up with just the NPSC brand from the settlement, nothing more was asked for, we are 4 years down the line and still effectively in court. To try and save any further hassle and speed up the process we have changed our name from Native Pony & Cob Saddles Ltd to AH Saddles Ltd, and we still await the final settlement, when all this confusion for our poor customers will be ended once and for all. I find it really sad that the English legal system allows this kind of thing to happen as ultimately the customer loses, and it's certainly not been a pleasant experience for me personally.
If I can answer any questions please feel free, also do Google the brand/company names and look at the discussions on forums where you will see people's experiences with the two companies.
Saddle Exchange Ltd was run by a couple - Andrea and Dean, Andrea who had bought the Native Pony brand about 15 years ago, and then brought her partner Dean in to work with her. The company split gradually through 2010, and it has been a bit of a saga since, for which I can only apologise.
Andrea has always designed the NPSC range since she bought it, and with her new company has continued to update the designs, and to search out the very best workshops to make the product, trying to provide the very best customer service. Dean and his new wife Gini set up Woodward and Woodward Ltd trading as Saddle Exchange Saddling Solutions, they kept the old website and telephone number. We were led to believe they would make Comfort saddles and act as agent for ReactorPanel, and we would make NPSC saddles, but they continued to make "Native Pony" saddles as well, so there were two identical sounding brands on the market. You would tell the difference in the flesh though, different designs, leather and makers.
In terms of fitters, three (myself and the two in Scotland, Clare and Diane) stayed with Andrea, Clare has actually been with the company longer than Andrea has owned it! We cover most of England/Scotland/Wales between us. I think Dean possiby has one fitter left from Saddle Exchange Ltd but has some new ones and some apparently in training.
Because of continual legal issues and challenges, from being in a position where we thought we would end up with just the NPSC brand from the settlement, nothing more was asked for, we are 4 years down the line and still effectively in court. To try and save any further hassle and speed up the process we have changed our name from Native Pony & Cob Saddles Ltd to AH Saddles Ltd, and we still await the final settlement, when all this confusion for our poor customers will be ended once and for all. I find it really sad that the English legal system allows this kind of thing to happen as ultimately the customer loses, and it's certainly not been a pleasant experience for me personally.
If I can answer any questions please feel free, also do Google the brand/company names and look at the discussions on forums where you will see people's experiences with the two companies.
Last edited:
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Sorry I'm late to this, out fitting all day yesterday
Saddle Exchange Ltd was run by a couple - Andrea and Dean, Andrea who had bought the Native Pony brand about 15 years ago, and then brought her partner Dean in to work with her. The company split gradually through 2010, and it has been a bit of a saga since, for which I can only apologise.
Andrea has always designed the NPSC range since she bought it, and with her new company has continued to update the designs, and to search out the very best workshops to make the product, trying to provide the very best customer service. Dean and his new wife Gini set up Woodward and Woodward Ltd trading as Saddle Exchange Saddling Solutions, they kept the old website and telephone number. We were led to believe they would make Comfort saddles and act as agent for ReactorPanel, and we would make NPSC saddles, but they continued to make "Native Pony" saddles as well, so there were two identical sounding brands on the market. You would tell the difference in the flesh though, different designs, leather and makers.
In terms of fitters, three (myself and the two in Scotland, Clare and Diane) stayed with Andrea, Clare has actually been with the company longer than Andrea has owned it! We cover most of England/Scotland/Wales between us. I think Dean possiby has one fitter left from Saddle Exchange Ltd but has some new ones and some apparently in training.
Because of continual legal issues and challenges, from being in a position where we thought we would end up with just the NPSC brand from the settlement, nothing more was asked for, we are 4 years down the line and still effectively in court. To try and save any further hassle and speed up the process we have changed our name from Native Pony & Cob Saddles Ltd to AH Saddles Ltd, and we still await the final settlement, when all this confusion for our poor customers will be ended once and for all. I find it really sad that the English legal system allows this kind of thing to happen as ultimately the customer loses, and it's certainly not been a pleasant experience for me personally.
If I can answer any questions please feel free, also do Google the brand/company names and look at the discussions on forums where you will see people's experiences with the two companies.
Well this explains why I didn't like the Native Pony saddles I saw at a show last year- they weren't the real deal!
Feebee-Friesian
Well-Known Member
Having just recently perchased an Andrea Hicks native pony saddle I would highly recommend them as a company. I'm in Edinburgh so had the very lovely and knowledgable Diane as my fitter. Many an email went back and forth between us and she brought a lovely selection of saddles. I settled on a lovely brown leather working hunter that is the most comfortable, fantastic saddle that I have sat on. I am in love with it. Diane did a fantastic Job fitting my Highland. She isn't an easy fit as has a shaped back but required a wide fit and all the other "issue" that comes with a Highland. Nothing was too much trouble and she is always at the end of the phone or email if I have any queries. I'm showing my beautiful Highland at the RHS this year and look forward to seeing the girls at there stand to tell them how much Annie and I are enjoying the saddle.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
I see through Googling that Saddle Exchange are still selling 'Native Pony Saddle Company' saddles with the green badge which I thought were Andrea's saddles. So Andrea bought out NPSC but the Woodwards have continued to sell saddles under that name? What has Andrea bought, then? All rather confusing and misleading.
I had a fitter out a few years ago, one whose number I got from Andrea's website. I was a bit disappointed with what I was shown and after speaking to Andrea on the 'phone it turned out that this person was selling Saddle Exchange saddles and Andrea removed her name from her website.
I had a fitter out a few years ago, one whose number I got from Andrea's website. I was a bit disappointed with what I was shown and after speaking to Andrea on the 'phone it turned out that this person was selling Saddle Exchange saddles and Andrea removed her name from her website.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Yes, precisely! PM me if you like, I'm quite happy for people to do that.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I have clarified with Andrea about the original purchase of the NPSC brand from its former owner - please skip if you're not interested in detail! Andrea ran a company called Andrea Saddles, and then set up Saddle Exchange (around 2000?) with Dean, then buying NPSC. Fast forward 10 or so years to the split and the proposal and initial agreement was that Andrea got NPSC, and the Woodwards got Comfort Saddles, ReactorPanel, the website and phone number. It never happened. NPSC and Comfort Saddles brands are stilll owned by Saddle Exchange Ltd which is not technically trading (Woodward & Woodward Ltd is only trading as Saddle Exchange, very confusing I know) and we are waiting for Saddle Exchange Ltd to be split up and closed down as it were.
After the split Dean thought that, despite it becoming fairly acrimonious, that the fitters could carry on fitting for both new companies. I wouldn't work for him, and couldn't see how it could work at all. Well it might have worked if they had only made Comfort Saddles leaving us NPSC, as per the initial agreement, but Woodward & Woodward Ltd carried on making both, so you can see eventually it caused massive problems with their saddles being sold to our customers by "joint" fitters, and in several cases the customers were very unhappy about it, as clearly you were! We did let two fitters go for this sort of reason. We can only apologise, yet again, for the confusion, and have tried to put right anything we possibly can, sometimes to the detriment of our own finances. I know I have done a few free/cheap visits to try and sort out some of these issues.
I hate washing our dirty laundry in public, but there is no other way to describe what has happened. None of you should need to know, and certainly don't want to know, this stuff! Various "facts" have been posted on websites, words like "Original" used in branding, and none of it serves the customer, I hope this explains things further.
I should also add that there is no longer a single original fitter now working for Woodward & Woodward Ltd (well, apart from Dean himself, and Gini nee Mortimer), the one I thought was still with them seems to have gone.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
They sound like a rather dishonest pair, the sort you wouldn't want to deal with regardless of the quality of their saddles..
Ruth17
Well-Known Member
This sounds ridiculously complicated!! I guess I'd like to know is how can I tell if a saddle branded as npsc is one from Andrea or Dean if I buy second hand? As presumably Andreas will be better than Dean's going on this?
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Yes, precisely. All over you like a rash when they want to sell you a saddle, and sweet & honeyed with it. But encounter a problem, and even though they've given you the bull***** that they are "your friends" and are all lovvey dovvey over you, they'll treat you like an infectious disease. And then have the audacity to charge you for it, through the nose, and then provide an appalling, nay non-existent customer service and follow-up.
If you call yourself a "saddle fitter" and can't even stuff panels evenly - to the extent that someone who knows nothing about horses can notice it!!! - then surely that says it all???
Last edited:
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Up until 2010 they were all the same - if you have an ID from the nearside sweatflap then we can look it up for you. After that Andrea switched to black nail heads, the easiest way to tell. I can't remember exactly when we switched, later 2010 I think. I wish it wasn't so complicated, trust me! We are always happy to advise on used saddles, I certainly will look at photos of horses/ponies and advise whether a used saddle you've spotted might be worth buying/trying.
pansymouse
Well-Known Member
Very similar to the exchanges my friend had when she had problems with her saddle from the other (Andrea's) Native Pony Saddle company. She gave up on it and had a new one made by another company.
minigal
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify sbloom fitted a beautiful Andrea saddle to my coblet a few weeks ago. Cannot recommend enough.