Natural horsemanship and Parelli

Warning this is opinionated:

Parelli to me is about showing off and teaching your horses tricks. Sorry no respect for Pat or Linda.

Natural horsemanship is what it says on the tin. Understanding your horse. Understanding why a horse reacts in a certain way during a situation, and more importantly understanding a way to resolve it. I don't beleive it is gently and horse whisperery its practical and very much common sense.

Parelli ask you to spend loads of money (£100s) on DVDs and equipment.

People like Intelligent horsemanship (Kelly Marks) are happy to help. There are people int he UK who can come to see your horse and work alongside you and him to resolve a problem. Yes you pay but you get a one to one training with a real life person. Their books and DVDs do not cost half as much as Parelli.
 
I have seen demos of both and agree with Toffee44.
I thought Parelli a shw off and you do need lots of expensive stuff.
Im a big fan of both Monty Roberts and Kelly Marks but what they do, anyone with a bit of common sense can do. Its fun.
 
LOL, I quite like Toffee44's answer :)

(and I expect you may get a few opinionated answers on this).

For me, "natural horsemanship" is one of those phrases that started out well intentioned but has now been somewhat b@stardised by systems like Parelli. So much so that some trainers that might call theirselves natural horsemanship trainers have actually stayed away from using that phrase.

Nowadays, I wouldn't get too hung up on the phrase as there is so much cross-over in different things - even the BHS are getting more into Kelly Marks - plus they got Sarah Widdicombe to write the BHS Book of the Natural Horse.

Indeed, what's natural anyway? A horse more or less stops being "natural" as such when you put a headcollar on him. The best we can do is to try to use training mechanisms that make sense to him - whatever that means ;)
 
toffee44 said:
Warning this is opinionated:

Parelli to me is about showing off and teaching your horses tricks. Sorry no respect for Pat or Linda.

Natural horsemanship is what it says on the tin. Understanding your horse. Understanding why a horse reacts in a certain way during a situation, and more importantly understanding a way to resolve it. I don't beleive it is gently and horse whisperery its practical and very much common sense.

Parelli ask you to spend loads of money (£100s) on DVDs and equipment.

People like Intelligent horsemanship (Kelly Marks) are happy to help. There are people int he UK who can come to see your horse and work alongside you and him to resolve a problem. Yes you pay but you get a one to one training with a real life person. Their books and DVDs do not cost half as much as Parelli.
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Agree with this :)
 
Not another anti-Parelli thread!

Here's an observation from someone who has tried both, and has met Monty and had his horse worked on by Monty - AND has had 1:1 lessons from a Parelli 3* instructor.

Monty/KM are great and do what they do - but they are what they are, and it's more down to their personalities and the way that they interact with the horses. Monty did marvelous things with one of my horses who had been a real problem, and is a thoroughly nice guy.

However Monty is Monty and what is missing from that system is a systematised way of teaching and coaching. Parelli provides that in a way that leads the novice horse owner through the various levels and attempts to formalise the teaching of "horse behaviour".

You really have to strip away all the American style marketing and understand that here is a cultural difference between the way that things are presented for the US market versus our UK culture.

When you work with the 3* instructors like Alison Jones, they are really very knowledgeable about horse behaviour - as are the Natural Horsemanship folks - but are better able to present in a series of exercises and tasks how to get to an end goal.

For example - one of my horses is, and always has been, quite resistant to loading. At the event we attended MR and KM simply put on a Dually and used pressure to co-erce him to load. Apart from walking away with an expensive Dually halter I had no real skills taught other than "pull on the Dually until he moves forward and then release".

In the Parelli system Alison Jones had him walking into, and backing out of the trailer in about 20 minutes. No force, no coercion. Instead a combination of 4 of the 7 games and he was doing it willingly - in fact eagerly showing off what he had learned. Unfortunately he walks into any trailer that is open now, and up any ramp, to show what he can do. But the really important thing was that I had been taught the nescessary games in the previous 3 hours, and I could then load and unload my horse myself, and guauge his level of hapiness at the whole experience.

So - my experience has been - MR/KM fine, but no systematic learning program. Parelli - learn to ignore the marketing - get really high quality instruction, and a systematised series of lessons that build your skills.

P.S. Don't describe myself as a "Parelli person" - hate the marketing - but on the whole it works for my horses.
 
If horsemanship is about understanding the horse and using tools and skills to communicate in a manner which is not about force, putting the horse first, then it is termed "natural".

If horsemanship is about being the boss and the horse has a job to do whether he's feeling a bit under the weather or is unhappy about something than it isn't.

The horseman can have either attitude, whether they own Parelli equipment or have a tack room of traditional gadgets.

Divide the cost of a Parelli DVD by the cost of a lesson with an instructor, work out how many lessons are in that Parelli DVD and how long it will be with you to get the true value.

It's your attitude your horse cares about.
 
brucea said:
Not another anti-Parelli thread!

Here's an observation from someone who has tried both, and has met Monty and had his horse worked on by Monty - AND has had 1:1 lessons from a Parelli 3* instructor.

Monty/KM are great and do what they do - but they are what they are, and it's more down to their personalities and the way that they interact with the horses. Monty did marvelous things with one of my horses who had been a real problem, and is a thoroughly nice guy.

However Monty is Monty and what is missing from that system is a systematised way of teaching and coaching. Parelli provides that in a way that leads the novice horse owner through the various levels and attempts to formalise the teaching of "horse behaviour".

You really have to strip away all the American style marketing and understand that here is a cultural difference between the way that things are presented for the US market versus our UK culture.

When you work with the 3* instructors like Alison Jones, they are really very knowledgeable about horse behaviour - as are the Natural Horsemanship folks - but are better able to present in a series of exercises and tasks how to get to an end goal.

For example - one of my horses is, and always has been, quite resistant to loading. At the event we attended MR and KM simply put on a Dually and used pressure to co-erce him to load. Apart from walking away with an expensive Dually halter I had no real skills taught other than "pull on the Dually until he moves forward and then release".

In the Parelli system Alison Jones had him walking into, and backing out of the trailer in about 20 minutes. No force, no coercion. Instead a combination of 4 of the 7 games and he was doing it willingly - in fact eagerly showing off what he had learned. Unfortunately he walks into any trailer that is open now, and up any ramp, to show what he can do. But the really important thing was that I had been taught the nescessary games in the previous 3 hours, and I could then load and unload my horse myself, and guauge his level of hapiness at the whole experience.

So - my experience has been - MR/KM fine, but no systematic learning program. Parelli - learn to ignore the marketing - get really high quality instruction, and a systematised series of lessons that build your skills.

P.S. Don't describe myself as a "Parelli person" - hate the marketing - but on the whole it works for my horses.
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Interesting post and points.I have never been convinced by Parelli because of the heavy marketing,buy my video etc. approach.I always thought that Pat was good though but was less impressed by Linda and think she is mainly the marketing brain.However,ifstuck,might try oneoftheir instructors sometime!
 
Many thanks for the positive answers.

The reason I ask is that I have a just turned 4 year old that is very opinionated and spooky. I have had problems with him just before Christmas and have turned him away again. Everyone says sell him but I really don't want to. I thought about doing some kind of Natural Horsemanship training with him through the Winter to try and help us both and hopefully desensitize him.

Do you think it would help him?
 
Just to mention in passing, natural horsemanship is not just about "Monty/Kelly vs Parelli". In fact, I don't think Kelly likes to be lumped in with natural horsemanship. For what it's worth, I spent a lot of time studying Parelli, and don't do it any more because I didn't like some aspects of it, and the only time I saw Kelly do a demo I hated it.
So... there are many trainers who could sort of be said to train in what we've come to think of as a "natural horsemanship" style, but as Kelpie said above, maybe it's time to ditch the label. There are a lot of good trainers in the UK, and a lot of others visiting over the summer who may be worth watching. Where are you? We may be able to recommend someone. A good trainer will be able to help you and your horse, and they may or may not have some "nh" background.
 
Toffee44 has hit it right on the nail as has stormybracken.

It is about your attitude and the attitude of your trainer. Whether this is "natrual" or not is really just about your approach. Until you get to Parelli when it is really about how much money they can make you spend.

I think your idea about getting someone to help is a good one. Whether they have the Parelli badge or something else is less important than how you and your horse get on with them. Ask around locally and see who is well regarded in your area. Also don't be afraid to say if it doesn't work for you or your horse. You'll be paying them after all.

Personally I'd run a mile from anything with the Parelli stamp on it - partly becuase of the aggresive marketing, partly becuase of that video of LP abusing a horse but mainly because the one parelli practitioner who came out to me beat and abused my horse to the extent that it took months to regain his trust. I have never seen anything so vicious. He still bolts at the sight of the rope headcollar.

But that said - I do accept that this is more likely one person, rather than the system itself. I'm sure there are good parelli practitioners out there and bad natural horsemanship practitioners. Go with word of mouth reccommendations and someone who suits you are your horse. Don't worry overmuch about which label it has attached!
 
If you do get a Parelli trainer out (and I'm definitely not saying do that...) then look on their website and make sure they are properly trained and accredited. There are a lot of "Parelli trainers" out there who are not qualified enough or endorsed by Parelli to be using the name and training. I'm in Kent, and lately I've heard of yet another one going out giving lessons, he's not on the list and is a liability.
Shay, what was the name of your trainer? Pm me if you don't want to say on the forum. I'd be really interested to know.
 
I've never entered the debate on this but I think my problem with Parelli is that I dont really 'get it'.

All I want a friendly, cooperative mutually enjoyable interaction with my horse. The only Parelli show I watched they had horses climbing onto giant stools, pushing giant footballs around and stuff like that. Why on gods earth would I want to do that?

I was interested to hear someone had actually had value out of Parelli in terms of getting their horse to load, now finally that sounds useful!

I've watched Monty Roberts and thought he had a real understanding and affinity with horses, but it was very much a 'show'.

Not had anything to do with Kelly Marks but everything I hear is positive. So all in all I guess I like the sound of Natural Horsemanship (in general), but am puzzled why anyone would be interested in Parelli
 
mainly because the one parelli practitioner who came out to me beat and abused my horse to the extent that it took months to regain his trust. I have never seen anything so vicious. He still bolts at the sight of the rope headcollar.
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Then it was definitely NOT a Parelli certified instructor or trainer.

Even the rumour of behaviour like this by a certified instructor would be taken very seriously in the organisation.
 
I'm quite new to the concept of NH; I only really heard about it in the past year. One of my friends invited me to a MR demo a few weeks ago and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it! He seemed very sensible and practical...another poster was right in saying that the stuff he does is sort of just common sense; but watching it being simplified into a number of exercises was really helpful to me.

I will definately be looking into doing more "NH" stuff now but I don't think you have to be completely in one camp or the other.
 
hollybell, for what it's worth, if you're thinking of getting into the natural horsemanship kinda stuff to help with your 4yo, then here's a few of the trainers that I would rate (check out their websites/ google them/ maybe get along to one of their clinics?). They don't really describe themselves as NH people as such, but certainally I think they are very good horsemen/women.

Mark Rashid and Kathleen Lindley (both US based but do come to the UK)
Tom & Sarah Widdicombe (in Devon but do do some clinics in other parts of the UK)
Amanda Barton (in the New Forest)

The thing I like about the above people is that they don't just teach you to do "stuff", they coach you into a way of being around your horses that works and that you can use to then have your horse work with you in a sensible fashion, if that make sense? To me, that's good horsemanship.
 
I totally agree is not Parelli Vs IH just look at the book Birth to Backing and a recent Article in horse deals. They both use similar foundations/ideas that Monty does however do not seem to follow religiously. I think with IH its not about following so much, but learning from what you have been shown, like I said its common knowledge and a lot of people just need it wafted infront of their noses and then nudged in the right direction.
 
im not too keen on parelli but have got some good tips from watching linda parelli for riding (i sometimes ride western), i like watching clinton anderson, its slightly less commercial and bonus is he's easy on the eye!! universal horsemanship and chris cox are all worth watching. they're all on rural tv or horse and country
 
MR does not stick to anything religously because no two horses are the same, and each horse must be treated as an individual. Methods must be adapted to suit each horse.
 
brucea said:
Not another anti-Parelli thread!

Here's an observation from someone who has tried both, and has met Monty and had his horse worked on by Monty - AND has had 1:1 lessons from a Parelli 3* instructor.

Monty/KM are great and do what they do - but they are what they are, and it's more down to their personalities and the way that they interact with the horses. Monty did marvelous things with one of my horses who had been a real problem, and is a thoroughly nice guy.

However Monty is Monty and what is missing from that system is a systematised way of teaching and coaching. Parelli provides that in a way that leads the novice horse owner through the various levels and attempts to formalise the teaching of "horse behaviour".

You really have to strip away all the American style marketing and understand that here is a cultural difference between the way that things are presented for the US market versus our UK culture.

When you work with the 3* instructors like Alison Jones, they are really very knowledgeable about horse behaviour - as are the Natural Horsemanship folks - but are better able to present in a series of exercises and tasks how to get to an end goal.

For example - one of my horses is, and always has been, quite resistant to loading. At the event we attended MR and KM simply put on a Dually and used pressure to co-erce him to load. Apart from walking away with an expensive Dually halter I had no real skills taught other than "pull on the Dually until he moves forward and then release".

In the Parelli system Alison Jones had him walking into, and backing out of the trailer in about 20 minutes. No force, no coercion. Instead a combination of 4 of the 7 games and he was doing it willingly - in fact eagerly showing off what he had learned. Unfortunately he walks into any trailer that is open now, and up any ramp, to show what he can do. But the really important thing was that I had been taught the nescessary games in the previous 3 hours, and I could then load and unload my horse myself, and guauge his level of hapiness at the whole experience.

So - my experience has been - MR/KM fine, but no systematic learning program. Parelli - learn to ignore the marketing - get really high quality instruction, and a systematised series of lessons that build your skills.

P.S. Don't describe myself as a "Parelli person" - hate the marketing - but on the whole it works for my horses.
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what a brilliant reply Brucea. I was just thinking how to word something similar.
I agree with this totally, i would also urge you to get someone reputable to work with you if you go down the parelli route. My problem with the dvds's (videos when i did it) is that a lot of clueless people have got a hold of them and not understood the body language etc and made a hash of things.
My mare was nervous and aggressive when i got her, she had been pretty badly treated and I was advised many times to have her pts. I was scared stiff of her by this time when i came across one of the most intuitive and sensible horsewoman I have ever met. I had never heard of parelli at this point, i thought it was something to do with tyres lol.
Anyway, now I have a horse who is just a brilliant riding horse, confident and respectful.
I rarely do any of the games now but I now have something to fall back on if I come across a problem, if she is stressed I can calm her down using some of the techniques. I am not saying that nobody else could have helped me, but I had no other options at that time.
I can understand why people see it as circus tricks after seeing some of the dems the parellis put on, but when it is used in a practical way it can be very effective. I can also understand the critics after seeing the state of some of the horses who have been failed by clueless people attempting parelli without any help and just hoping for the best. How many are ruined by people using conventional methods badly too, a fair amount from what I have seen.
I also want to stress that my mare was never whacked with the brass clip or the carrot stick or anything else. She was pretty much having a nervous breakdown at the time and harsh treatment would have sent her over the edge. I would never stand by and see my horse or anyone else's treated like that.
we have been together 7 years now and have a brilliant relationship.
The thing about it being expensive, fair comment but so are a lot of horsey products, we regularly pay over the odds because we want jods or jackets or hats etc with a particular name.
 
OP- I would really recommend getting a copy of 'Groundwork training for your horse' by Lesley Bayley, as it gives a brief summary of all types of ground work (from Parelli and Monty Roberts through to traditional lungeing and long reining and all the in hand work training of the Portuguese style dressage riders). It only gives a snapshot of each method, but it clearly explains the benefits and goals of each style and gives some idea of how to use and adapt the bits you like. I found it really useful when I was bringing on a clueless youngster!
 
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