Natural Horsemanship mix - Opinions

Bettyboo222

Bettyboo222

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have been thinking (dangerous I know) and I'm considering dabbling in a bit of natural horseman ship with Ted. Have spoken to his owner and she gave me the green light to try it.

I am thinking along the lines of just doing a bit of join up and possibly trying to ride bitless, I sometimes get the feeling Ted really doesn't trust me and that is why he is spooky sometimes and doesn't move forwards. I want to try to do my best for Ted and if that means being a bit unconventional then so be it.

Has anyone tried join up who can give me some opinions?
 
I personally wouldn't because I've had so many horrible experiences with natural horsemanship :(:mad: (so I'm biased - I'll admit it). I've never done any natural horsemanship though my horse and I trust each other 110%, he follows me around (no halter/bridle needed) and I do ride bitless occasionally.

I don't think bitless is for every horse and sometimes it does more harm than good - so if you do choose to do it, get a professional to help!
 
Like most things, if it works it's great. I take bits that suit me from all sorts of training methods.

If I tried join up, I can see my boy with hooves on hips, saying what now!

Good luck

Jane
 
I think it's a good mix. I'm reading a book by Tom Dorrance which was recommended by someone on HHO and it's fascinating.
I learned the traditional way through Pony Club/BHS and worked on yards that did things the BHS way and have no regrets, BHS training is arguably the best in the world.
However some of the stuff I've seen under the guise of NH is brilliant and it works too IMO.
 
There have been some really interesting discussions here on Natural/Alternative Horsemanship but they tend to get a bit heated (don't mention the 'P' word). Shame really because there is room for everybody and there's so much we can learn. Mind you it can get a bit scientific:D
 
I don't see any harm that could come of it - again to mirror what everyone else has said..... just get some help with it.

... and if it doesn't work out, that's okay! My old yard manager tried to 'join up' with my mare (I was sceptical about doing it and wanted to see it being done) and she basically pranced about sticking her middle finger up..... I think it would be good to try it out though! I'm pondering over going bitless myself :)
 
Christmas_Fairy said:
I nearly did mention the 'p' word but I thought I should try and stay as un-contrevsial as possible
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Well....keep this to yourself but I went on the web looking for stuff on Dorrance and found a vid which PP had filmed for him, asking his advice. He's working with a stallion and he's almost...well....human:eek:

Apologies in advance to Team Barney;)
 
Keep an open mind and at least try something different, natural/classical/english whatever, bitless, bridleless, bareback, doesn't matter as long as you take good advice and work slowly to achieve. The best horsemanship is Honest Horsemanship ! :eek:
 
I do use some NH groundwork methods with my youngster - he responds really well to it.

I have been working through a few exercises in a book called 101 horsemanship exercises which is very good and explains things very well. What to, common problems, how it helps the horse, how it helps the handler etc

I'm not a fan of bitless though - if we used a bit that put pressure on nose, chin and poll then it would be classed as harsh yet that is exactly the points that a bitless bridle would put pressure on.
 
I am happy to mention the P word - parelli parelli parelli parelli! :p I do parelli and I have a happy confident horse who sees my car coming, meets my by the fence and follows me up to the gate. As with everything else, it is not so much about which method you choose but about HOW you do it. One of the people that mr P credits as one of his teachers is Tom Dorrance so I would imagine that there is a fair bit of common ground. I have also been having classical dressage lessons - again, there is a lot of common ground between the two 'methods'.

The single thing that I have found most useful for building a bond with my horse is what Mr P calls 'undemanding time' and lots of people do and call something else. Go for walks in hand, sit in the field and read a book, groom and find scratchy spots.... - just hanging out together being mates is the best thing you can do for your relationship.

I think join up can be useful in certain circumstances but you have to have good timing and there is no point sending your horse away it already wants to be with you.
 
Def dont try join up unless you actually know what you're doing as you could confuse and frighten the horse without meaning to.

You could get Kelly Marks book 'perfect partners' lots of ideas to do in there to build a bond with your horse. Also could find out who your local RA is who could teach you to join up properly :)

There are a few aspects of parelli that make sense to me, but they are few and far between tbh. Intelligent Horsemanship makes so much more sense to me!
 
unbalanced said:
I am happy to mention the P word - parelli parelli parelli parelli! :p I do parelli and I have a happy confident horse who sees my car coming, meets my by the fence and follows me up to the gate. As with everything else, it is not so much about which method you choose but about HOW you do it. One of the people that mr P credits as one of his teachers is Tom Dorrance so I would imagine that there is a fair bit of common ground. I have also been having classical dressage lessons - again, there is a lot of common ground between the two 'methods'.

The single thing that I have found most useful for building a bond with my horse is what Mr P calls 'undemanding time' and lots of people do and call something else. Go for walks in hand, sit in the field and read a book, groom and find scratchy spots.... - just hanging out together being mates is the best thing you can do for your relationship.

I think join up can be useful in certain circumstances but you have to have good timing and there is no point sending your horse away IF it already wants to be with you.
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Sorry, I can write English sentences with all the words in really - it's been a long day, and it's not over yet.
 
unbalanced said:
I am happy to mention the P word - parelli parelli parelli parelli! :p I do parelli and I have a happy confident horse who sees my car coming, meets my by the fence and follows me up to the gate. As with everything else, it is not so much about which method you choose but about HOW you do it. One of the people that mr P credits as one of his teachers is Tom Dorrance so I would imagine that there is a fair bit of common ground. I have also been having classical dressage lessons - again, there is a lot of common ground between the two 'methods'.

The single thing that I have found most useful for building a bond with my horse is what Mr P calls 'undemanding time' and lots of people do and call something else. Go for walks in hand, sit in the field and read a book, groom and find scratchy spots.... - just hanging out together being mates is the best thing you can do for your relationship.

I think join up can be useful in certain circumstances but you have to have good timing and there is no point sending your horse away it already wants to be with you.
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I have seen join up but it has always seemed more like 'shouting' than 'whispering' to me. I agree with you, scratch a horse on his withers and he's liable to follow you anyway just out of curiosity:)
 
imo the best thing you can do is read about the various principles and pick what fits your belief systems ....... perhaps go to demos of find someone local that might chat to you and show you their horses and what they can do and how ...... or even get a lesson / go to see a trainer that doea each "method"

Thin is that IH is about more than join up, parelli is about more that waving an orange stick and twirling a rope ..... just like clicker training is more than just being a treat dispenser. You need to explore it a bit before you do some of these things with a horse .......... just like you would not think about training a horse BHS style without getting lessons at a riding school or with an instructor so that you are doing it "right" ;)




posted by wheels
I'm not a fan of bitless though - if we used a bit that put pressure on nose, chin and poll then it would be classed as harsh yet that is exactly the points that a bitless bridle would put pressure on.
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I would like to point out kindly that the bit however sits in the area with the highest ratio of nerve endings in the whole body and has (usually) a metal bar with often some sort of leverage device attached so that far more pressure per square inch is applied than almost any bitless bridle. MOst bitless bridles have soft stuff like leather applying pressure over a wider area on less sensitive areas of the head.

Both apply pressure...... how much depends on the training of both the horse and rider and some bitless bridles can be used very harshly indeed .... just like bits... but in general most bitless bridles generate less discomfort / pain than bits when the same amount of pull applied by the human hand ;)
 
I had Intelligent Horsemanship help when I had loading issues (note the use of the word "had" - yay!). Really helped with the loading thing but also was really interesting in helping me take a bit more notice of my boy. I realised he had far more personality than I had given him credit for and I think it's really improved how I handle him!

I have seen a few people use P but that seems to have been when they were too scared to ride tbh and didn't seem to improve their riding. But then they might not have been doing it right I spose.
 
tazzle said:
imo the best thing you can do is read about the various principles and pick what fits your belief systems ....... perhaps go to demos of find someone local that might chat to you and show you their horses and what they can do and how ...... or even get a lesson / go to see a trainer that doea each "method"

Thin is that IH is about more than join up, parelli is about more that waving an orange stick and twirling a rope ..... just like clicker training is more than just being a treat dispenser. You need to explore it a bit before you do some of these things with a horse .......... just like you would not think about training a horse BHS style without getting lessons at a riding school or with an instructor so that you are doing it "right" ;)




posted by wheels


I would like to point out kindly that the bit however sits in the area with the highest ratio of nerve endings in the whole body and has (usually) a metal bar with often some sort of leverage device attached so that far more pressure per square inch is applied than almost any bitless bridle. MOst bitless bridles have soft stuff like leather applying pressure over a wider area on less sensitive areas of the head.

Both apply pressure...... how much depends on the training of both the horse and rider and some bitless bridles can be used very harshly indeed .... just like bits... but in general most bitless bridles generate less discomfort / pain than bits when the same amount of pull applied by the human hand ;)
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I wish we had a "like" button sometimes.
 
I find it really useful mixing up the Kelly Marks stuff with traditional horsemanship. Like Bernster I started with it when I had loading issues and I was really impressed. I do a lot of the groundwork in the IH way so leading and them stopping when you stop and behind your shoulders, them backing up if you walk towards their chest and point, same with quarters. Thats as much as I do with my youngster for IH but with my tb if I'm bored I'll muck about getting her to follow me in canter with no headcollar, stuff like that.

I've always stayed clear of join up though, I find doing the above in hand work is enough to 'attach' them to you without needing to add in the agression of chasing them around.

If I'm honest though I think the reason the above in hand work is so good for bonding etc is just because you're being crystal clear about what you're asking for and giving them clear boundaries and plenty of praise - basically how we should be trying to do everything with them!
 
if you get join up wrong it could do more bad than good with a horse you feel doesn't particularly trust you. plenty of inhand work is the thing i use for making friends. taking them out and about to look at different things, getting them to walk over groundsheets and other things so that they learn to put their trust in you as a leader. If you fancy reading some good common sense horsemanship grab yourself a Mark Rashid book, no fancy tricks or special equipment needed;)
 
Im going through the Richard Maxwell book just now.
It has some great groundwork exercises, its about doing one step before moving onto the next and I'm using it on my older horse for variety and getting a bit more respect from her as well as building on her confidence.

I'm also using it on my youngster in preparation for backing and again, its helping to build her confidence.

The parelli 7 games are good - you don't have to use a carrot stick for these.

It doesn't matter which method or school of thought you use - they all basically suggest getting control of your horses feet. Moving them around, forwards backwards, sideways etc.
 
This probably is not the right site for advice on natural horsemanship advice. Yes I have used it to good effect, with youngsters to establish ground manners, float loading, liberty work (which includes join up), and ridden. I would say that it is well worth pursuing. I have a fantastic bond with the horses that I have progressed to liberty work on the ground with. It is huge amounts of fun, and NH is worth learning simply for being able to float train almost any horse in no time flat.
 
The one thing to be careful of with the 7 games, is the one with the disengaging of the hind quarters.

Doing too much of this over and over again at speed with the horse not carrying himself correctly often results in very sore/put out backs.

Just one to be aware of :)
 
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