Naughty horse part 2...

[noodle_]

My horse decided to barge me out the way and hit the deck a while back.... she did it again tonight - im sure shes bored and thinks its a game

No ears back, no kicking/biting etc, shes just rude.

I do now go in with a crop/schooling whip and she will get a smack if she pushes me too far.... tonight tho...her record 4 barges in 10 minutes

Shes doing it when we go into the stable, turn round she runs back out pushing me out the way in the process...

I think the cause is giving her time off (she was backed last year and never had time off), ive given her 2 weeks off now (wanted to do 6), and its turned into a monster overnight.

Im buying a chain tomorow (ones with the fill tho as she will get under and snap the normal ones) BUT it needs some manners??

Basically from the spinning round and running back out the stable before i can do the door up.... shes strong and SO rude

Advice please.

 

[AmyMay]

Blue pipe or short stick and work.

 

[noodle_]

blue pipe?

shes thick quite honestly - shes a very slow learner.... im willing to use a stick and im not afraid to use a stick

the last time she knocked me to the ground she got a mild pasting (think stick rug/legs )

Im not into beating horses, not my style but smacks i havent got a problem with..

 

[Magicmillbrook]

Not quite clear what you are describing. Are you taking her in to the stable, taking head collar off and she is doing it before you have closed the door, or is it when you open the door to go in she barges out? If it was the former I think I would go in, tie her up, go back and shut door, then let her off. If it is the latter I would make sure my stable door is level an the bolts etc are all very smooth running so that I can slip in and shut it again ASAP, whilst making my self big/sending her out of my space.

If its going in with equipment - haynets, trugs etc then I think I would also tie her up first.

I would also consider some ground work. I know natural horsemanship isnt poular with every one, but I did some Kelly Marks excercises with a rude bargy horse and they worked very well, so do them with all my lot from time to time, not only to keep them mannerly but also as something different to do. Kely Marks 'Perfect Manners' book is a
worthwhile read.

 

[AmyMay]

blue pipe?

Blue plastic alcathine pipe. It's quite thick, and makes a hell of a noise if you smack a horse with it (without hurting them as much as a short stick would).

 

[Tammytoo]

How about doing groundwork with her and teaching her to back up, move away from you, respect your space etc. Is there an IH instructor in your area who could come and give you a session to get you going?

 

[noodle_]

Im leading her into the stable, turning round and shes literally (still headcollar/leadrope on) running out... dragging me behind.

I used to let her off to go into the stable - shut the door quick - no issues.... but she got clever and just point blank refused to go in and stodd there/walked off

Im happy to tie her up while i put food in etc but i just want to slve the barging


btw shes absolutely fine if i go in with a bucket/haynet - i can leave the door wide open but no food = barge.

her stomach rules her life.

 

[noodle_]

im on a yard where the others do parelli/NH - im not a huge fan of it.... i like watching and like the pressure headcollars but thats as far as i go.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

In that case have you got a tie ring at the back of the stable so you can walk in and tie up before the turning around part, then shut the door before untiying and letting her off?

I wouldnt say she is that much of a slow learner, she has learnt this rather naughty trick. I believe Pippa Funnel uses 'Mr Blue Pipe' from time to time, the only issue is what do you do when Mr Blue Pipe is not at home.

 

[JellyBeanSkittle]

My mare can get a bit 'pushy, shovy' and even though, like noodle, am not one for the NH or Parelli. I find that doing a bit of Monty Robert join up solves to problem to a degree were I can continue with our groundwork and schooling. Basically like putting her back in the pecking order like what the horses would do naturally in the field!

 

[noodle_]

Thanks ^

no i dont have a tie ring at the moment but i am going to get a door chain thing tomorow so will get another tie ring as well.

Im wondering if the lack of work is having an effect too - she was a crabby get last time she was out of work....and this time seems worse (i thought i was doing her a favour too)!.....


ets - if needed what is/where can i get a blue pipe?

 

[Splish & Masons mum]

blimey Noodle, it's like I wrote this myself!
Mason tried this on for the first time a couple of weeks ago, discovered that he's stronger than me, and since then had decided that it's an excellent game.
I don't agree, and had a Monty Roberts RA out (who also happens to be my physio) come out to do a session with him. She thought that I needed to be able to back him up and for him to respect what I'm asking him to do, so we spent part of yesterday backing him up and down the school, there were a few tantrums (from him!) but we managed it.
What she suggested I do going forward is to make the backing up a part of his daily routine - back him up before I enter the stable, back him up a couple of steps after I catch him in the field, just keep reminding him that I'm boss.
I'm hoping that he will stop doing it in time, and it's not an overnight fix as he barged me out of the way this morning, but he did look a bit sorry for himself after I'd backed him all the way down the yard, and then went out like a lamb.
Hope some of this can help you in some way
x

 

[noodle_]

blimey Noodle, it's like I wrote this myself!
Mason tried this on for the first time a couple of weeks ago, discovered that he's stronger than me, and since then had decided that it's an excellent game.
I don't agree, and had a Monty Roberts RA out (who also happens to be my physio) come out to do a session with him. She thought that I needed to be able to back him up and for him to respect what I'm asking him to do, so we spent part of yesterday backing him up and down the school, there were a few tantrums (from him!) but we managed it.
What she suggested I do going forward is to make the backing up a part of his daily routine - back him up before I enter the stable, back him up a couple of steps after I catch him in the field, just keep reminding him that I'm boss.
I'm hoping that he will stop doing it in time, and it's not an overnight fix as he barged me out of the way this morning, but he did look a bit sorry for himself after I'd backed him all the way down the yard, and then went out like a lamb.
Hope some of this can help you in some way
x

thank you

she does back up when i ask her too - for feed shes briliant (bucket not haynet)

Im planning tomorow to bring her in and out the stable practising, praising or disciplining as appropriate...

Unfortunately one day a week i dont bring her in.... however all her food etc is in the stable so i hope to god she dosent play up for anyone else bringing her in

 

[becca1305]

My filly is a very good girl and got the hang of 'back' almost instantly but sometimes in cheeky mode when led in she tried to slip out back past me and once buffeted me with her bum as she span round - I sat down hard in shock then started laughing and she actually came back in put her head in my lap and looked at me in that 'what are you doing down there' confused face, the silly moo! (The yard is small private and secure so I dont have to worry).

The best thing I found with her was to lead her in then before turning her round stand on the side she always spins to so for me the right before unclipping her with her body still facing the wall (rather than the door)but head bent towards me. Then when she tries to spin Im already the right side of her so no getting bum bumped and have taken two steps back so have time and space to react - for me just raising a hand and saying 'ah ah back', but you could use this time and space perhaps to make yourself big and waft your whip/pipe and give voice commands whilst backing out steadily. Every time she comes into your personal space stopping and making her back up a step again or giving her a smack on the chest if she barges.

I also think pipe is better as its bigger and gives her more to eye up and think about but isnt harsh.

Whilst a stall guard/ chain is good for security if she does push past you so you dont end up with a loose horse I wouldnt rely on slipping out round it as it will just teach her she can carry on being pushy. I do think a chain rather than a stall guard is a good idea if she might actually be prepared to squash you as you dont want to be standing between her and an exit you cant slip out of rapidly. I think unfortunately the key is just monotonous repetition. Mine soon got fed up and used to just give a little snort of disgust, and now she doesnt bother thinking about it at all.

My old boy was a barge/ stable bolter when we first got him (hadnt been turned out enough with prev owners) I did similar with him as with filly but also with a whip to make him pay attention. After about 6 months of entering with a whip and showing it him before coming in meant he all but stopped it and now I dont need one. He now backs up politely when asked, however he is still an opportunist and leave a door ajar for a second with no chain tying a haynet etc and hes out of there! I dont really mind though as he wouldnt be him if he didnt try it on once a while despite now being a retiree

Good luck getting it sorted

 

[noodle_]

thanks becca

woldnt mind but she goes out for a good 6 hours a day in winter and 14 hours in summer !

i will try to get a stall guard tomorow if i have time... just for the sake of the person who puts her out in a morning too as the last thing i need is her to barge him again -

 

[Tickles]

6 hours a day and no work!?! I'd barge you out the way too!

You're locking your horse up for 18hours a day.

Now, I'm not against a horse having good manners but keeping one close to stationary for long periods of time when it isn't even getting interesting exercise the rest of the time does sound like a recipe for trouble to me.

Can you get an instructor out to show you some interesting ground work exercises (appropriate for whatever reason she isn't in work) and practice those?

Also use her time off to take her out of the stable to groom, do the ground work, go for a walk in-hand or whatever. You don't sound like you're very bonded with her (based on this one thread anyway) and it should help with her respect for you.

Once a horse has been told off for something once, immediately, there is no point in you hitting it repeatedly. It might make you feel better but you'll have got your point across the first time and the rest is just violence.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

The Haffie I had before Sunny was a confirmed and dangerous barger. I fitted a chain and it worked a treat in the stable but of course it's only putting a sticking plaster on the problem, not treating the underlying issue. And anyway, he did the same barginess at the field gate and that couldn't be solved that way. I sold him to the riding school where I had him in livery due to a nasty accident and they sorted the whole thing in a few weeks. Every single time, stable or field, if he barged he was immediately tacked up and made to work. Every every every single time regardless of the reason he was being brought out/in/etc. He's an intelligent lad and it didn't take him long to make the decision for himself that he would be polite at all times! Any horse can be forced to do anything but there is a real danger then that there will come a time when the horse will rebel and rebel spectacularly. Help him make the decision himself and it's solved for life. Find something your horse hates doing, maybe standing outside tied up short, no haynet and having to wait 30mins for tea? Then every single time he barges, make it happen. You have to do it every every single time or you will only be teaching him to barge more. You should have it cracked in just a few weeks!

 

[ponyschool]

Hello there a few ways to stop the barging nh can help it will teach her to stay out of your space which will keep you safe but also each time she goes back to her box give something to look forward to such as a few bits of apple in the far corner of her box then as you take off her hc she will go the corner for the treat and you can close the door safely do this each time until she wants to stay in the box for her treats show her where they are the first few times as she stands to eat them leave the box quietly.
You could also put up a hay net with apples in the hay at the back corner she will smell them and be to busy eating so you can shut the door.Smacking is all well and good but if she fights back it could prove nasty,try to find out why she does not enjoy being in put up a mirror if she is leaving her friends in the field and stressing the mirror will help this.
Most equines want to please but if we don't listen when they are trying to tell you something they start to shout and barging is shouting she has to take charge for her self because you are not showing alpha,problems can be solved with out laying a hand just think like a horse and you will solve the problem easily,put things in the stable toys tidbits in the corner,a horse mirror things for her to keep her occupied whilst you close the door and stay safe, try some training with the pressure halter used correctly its a useful application teach her to yield to pressure and your space stay safe.

 

[jeeve]

How about doing groundwork with her and teaching her to back up, move away from you, respect your space etc. Is there an IH instructor in your area who could come and give you a session to get you going?

Agree with this - they will teach you how to sort her out in know time flat

 

[eahotson]

Hello there a few ways to stop the barging nh can help it will teach her to stay out of your space which will keep you safe but also each time she goes back to her box give something to look forward to such as a few bits of apple in the far corner of her box then as you take off her hc she will go the corner for the treat and you can close the door safely do this each time until she wants to stay in the box for her treats show her where they are the first few times as she stands to eat them leave the box quietly.
You could also put up a hay net with apples in the hay at the back corner she will smell them and be to busy eating so you can shut the door.Smacking is all well and good but if she fights back it could prove nasty,try to find out why she does not enjoy being in put up a mirror if she is leaving her friends in the field and stressing the mirror will help this.
Most equines want to please but if we don't listen when they are trying to tell you something they start to shout and barging is shouting she has to take charge for her self because you are not showing alpha,problems can be solved with out laying a hand just think like a horse and you will solve the problem easily,put things in the stable toys tidbits in the corner,a horse mirror things for her to keep her occupied whilst you close the door and stay safe, try some training with the pressure halter used correctly its a useful application teach her to yield to pressure and your space stay safe.

That and that endless smacking will start to make her aggressive.

 

[AmyMay]

ets - if needed what is/where can i get a blue pipe?

Ignore my suggestion - it was stupid.

Get a tie ring, work on her stable manners and give her some work.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

This is quite serious behavoir because as she wheels around dragging you behind you are in serious danger of being kicked. You may say well my mare isn't a kicker but at the same time she didn't use to be a barger either. Just be careful. Also when you get knocked down and then spend time getting back up, the moment has passed for effective punishment to mean anything.

You don't have to go out and buy a chain. If you have a lead rope that's a bit longer then snap that over her nose. That's going to give you the leverage you need when she goes to wheel or barge. And by all means in and out of that stable until she gets that right. No thinking right I'll combat that tomorrow when I have a plan of action. In and out every evening until she is coming in and turning around and standing quietly to have the headcollar off. No excuses.

Terri

 

[cheeryplatypus]

Sounds dangerous. My horse used to barge when I had him because basically he didn't respect me enough to override his natural fear of things. Please dont hit your horse as it isn'e likely to build respect for you but will build her lack of confidence in the stable. If she stays in with food it's most likely because the food takes her mind off things.

This is what I did to stop the barging:

1. establish a good back up in hand (out with the stable environment) with you in front of your horse ask her to step back, I'll bet it will be really sticky to begin with and at this stage you can give a tap to reinforce your request to back out of your space. If she tries to walk through you ignore her completely but swing your arms around and jump up and down with loads of energy to reinforce that its your space if she walks into your arm then too bad (this is quite different to hitting her)
make sure you give the horse time to think, wait until there is a sigh or chew before you ask for another step, else there is no 'rest reward' and it won't work!
2. once you have a back up of a few steps then you can use it around the place, yes back up a few steps all over the place! use it through gates, over poles etc
3. come back to the stable issue, walk her only in a little way like to the shoulder and then ask for the back up out through the door
4. build it up and ensure that she always backs out of the stable, with you in the stable and her out first, dont let her rush out though, build up the time she spends in there
5. eventually she will be more confident and stop to ask you whether she should reverse out or go forward.

lots of rubs and rests and you'll be fine. Start with gates first, its a useful skill to have anyway and helped me no end.
Ps if she is already confident in the stable it will be much quicker, as you only have to establish yourself as the boss by always asking her to move out of your space
Good luck

 

[FanyDuChamp]

Fany used to try to barge, this how we solved it, she is a very heavy weight draught and could not be allowed to throw her weight around!

First back your horse up one step for every step it takes forward when not asked to. At first you should say "back up" whilst pressing lightly on its chest, press harder and stop when it moves.

Next you should be able to stand with your back to it, and walk backwards into it saying back up, it should back up, as this is a major way herd members warn others off.

Finally stand in front, point at chest and say "back up" and it should do it. Fany took 2 days to learn that, Captain learned it much quicker as he was made to back up the whole length of the barn! If she gets out of her stable, she must back up into it.

And I totally agree Mr Blue Pipe is your friend, lots of noise, very little pain but good shock factor and no bruising like a crop will cause.

Hope it goes okay.
FDC

 

[amandap]

I would also consider some ground work. I know natural horsemanship isnt poular with every one, but I did some Kelly Marks excercises with a rude bargy horse and they worked very well, so do them with all my lot from time to time, not only to keep them mannerly but also as something different to do. Kely Marks 'Perfect Manners' book is a
worthwhile read.

Good advice imo. You have to teach her what you expect and be consistent. One session or threat a with tool isn't going to cut it ime. Well mannered horses are trained/taught not born.

 

[noodle_]

breakthrough today;

after being barged several times yesterday i decided when i brought her in i was having none of it.... so tied her outside her stable and took her rugs off...

Lead her into her stable, naturally the little sod barged round and went out the stable.......with a sharp crack on her backside from the whip she hadnt seen.



She walked in like a lamb the 2nd time.... stood politely at the back of her stable (just to note - shes NEVER scared etc, shes just thick).... gave her loads of praise/scratchies

All while the door was wide open, loose lead etc

Then walked her out (me by her side and saying walk on) walked round the yard, put her back in the stable and again - lamb... repeated a couple more times and gave her a feed

So one crack on her backside and it was like wtf... it was more of a "pay attention to me"

so i will work with her daily....carrying on doing this to see if it changes her for the better

 

[Brandy]

I have a couple of experiences of this and both dealt with differently.

One, small tank like pony, who has generally good manners, good to handle etc, would occasionally decide she was coming out of the stable whether you liked it or not, and the way to deal with her is to give her a smack and send her back in again. Natural horsemanship wouldn't help this either as she is perfectly behaved 99.9% of the time.

The other one, I would tie up outside while I was doing stuff (not for a long time) and he would run in and out of the stable like a loon (he's 13.2 and quite agile.....) smacking him would not be the way forward at all, he's a bit hysterical. Being gentle and calming and asking him to stand and giving a little treat works for him.

 

[noodle_]

^^ see above post - worked the smack route (sorry to say as i dont like smacking my horse)


shes sweet 99% of the time.... bringing her in and out the field you could honestly let a 3 year old do it... (wouldnt but you get my drift )

shes just forgetting her manners,,, so needed them putting back in again and i *hope* the sharp crack on her backside rememberd this (jus thank god she dosent kick lol)