Naughty on the lunge

[FlyingCircus]

Please leave the loan and report this yard. It is presumably not just one horse in this situation (although just one is bad enough!).

This is not a way to keep a living, breathing, feeling animal. Poor poor thing.

It is your responsibility here to put the horse's needs (an appropriate living arrangement) above your wants (to continue the loan).

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

This is completely out of my hands so don’t appreciate your comments. I loan her so have not been allowed to move her, believe me I have trie!

In that case, I would hand the responsibility for the horse back to the owner. This just is not a safe set up for you or the horse.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

This is completely out of my hands so don’t appreciate your comments. I loan her so have not been allowed to move her, believe me I have trie!

A tricky situation OP. I think it's been fairly comprehensively said that this isn't a good way to keep a horse for the horse's sake, but I'm also thinking about your safety/welfare. You've already said you're not enjoying it trying to manage her behaviour (totally fair enough!) but this could end up with you getting hurt. In your shoes I would be pretty firmly saying either the situation needs to change or I'd be ending the loan.

Is it a full loan or part loan/share? Just wondering to what extent the owner is involved in the day to day care/management/exercise of the horse.

Also you might not have a choice about how the horse is kept but you do have a choice about the words you use to describe her - 'naughty' and 'a diva' seems highly unfair.

 

[Lipglosspukka]

Poor soul. What an existence.

The horse needs moving. If the owner won't let you move the horse then I would terminate the loan.

In the interim, this horse needs riding. At least two hours a day. If the horse is too much for you in its current, highly charged state, then a professional should be paid.

This thread has made me sad.

 

[Clodagh]

This is completely out of my hands so don’t appreciate your comments. I loan her so have not been allowed to move her, believe me I have trie!

You are supporting her though by paying for her to be kept in such a way? Unless it is a free loan.
Poor little neglected horse. Sad.

 

[irishdraft]

Sorry OP I agree with others completely unacceptable way to keep a horse with only lunging until exhausted exercise unless I've misunderstood. I don't know where in the country or what soil type the yard has but I rolled all my field 3 weeks ago I cannot believe you are unable to turn out for another 4 weeks . I would not be keeping any equine at a yard of this type .

 

[ycbm]

Please leave the loan and report this yard.

There is nothing the yard can be reported for, I'm afraid, it isn't illegal to keep horses without turnout and unless the horse is on full livery with riding, it's the loaner's responsibility (moral, not legal) to get the horse sufficiently exercised.

 

[huskydamage]

During the snow my horse had daily turnout, has a pen with her stable so never shut in and was ridden weekly and still when I lunged her due to me riding less in the snow and ice, she behaved exactly like this on the lunge. I can't imagine what she would be like with no turnout! Thats sounds really horrible gor the horse and dangerous. I would terminate the loan and look for a less riduculous set up before you get hurt.

 

[FlyingCircus]

There is nothing the yard can be reported for, I'm afraid, it isn't illegal to keep horses without turnout and unless the horse is on full livery with riding, it's the loaner's responsibility (moral, not legal) to get the horse sufficiently exercised.

Are yard owners not responsible ultimately for the welfare of the horses on their land? I thought they had a duty of care, even on DIY.

 

[canteron]

If it puts in in perspective my 24yo was a nutter in the school today - and she lives out 20 hours a day! Just generally feeling good in the emerging Spring weather.

If you can't change yards, I would put your schooling ambitions back until the horse can have some turnout!

I suspect the main reason my 24yo is able to come back into work is because she has always had so much turnout, it really does impact positively on their health.

 

[Wishfilly]

If you can't move her, I'm afraid I would give up the loan. At least then you're not complicit in paying for her to be kept in this way. There will be other loans out there with horses with sane owners.

 

[mariew]

Are yard owners not responsible ultimately for the welfare of the horses on their land? I thought they had a duty of care, even on DIY.

If people would go around reporting DIY yo where horses are not looked after to the standard they would like then I suspect there would be a lot less DIY yards available around! Or a lot more people would get kicked off yards pretty darn quick.

If it wasn't my horse and I couldn't do anything about sufficient exercise with no turnout I would walk away as it would be too dangerous to ride and find something else. I do think especially in clay areas this will become more and more of an issue if/as the winters get wetter.

 

[ycbm]

Are yard owners not responsible ultimately for the welfare of the horses on their land? I thought they had a duty of care, even on DIY.

There is simply no offence to report to anyone who would be interested in hearing about it. There are thousands of horses kept this way in the UK in winter. It's not illegal to keep horses without turnout and defining "insufficient" exercise would be a legal minefield. The horse isn't ill, just too full of energy.

Which organisation did you have in mind when you suggested that the yard should be reported?

 

[doodle]

Mine would be the same after a couple of days in with no turnout. After 6months his head would explode. He is older and fairly sensible. Very hard place if horse is on loan. If you cannot move the horse (and of course it is ultimately the owners decision) like everyone has said, you need to end the loan. As this situation will escalate until there is a bad injury, either the you or the horse.

 

[stormox]

A lot of horses turn themselves inside out on the lunge - because they can! It doesnt mean they will be naughty to ride.
I dont mind if mine has 20 - 30 mins of squeal/buck/rear/whizz round -I just stand in the middle and keep the rope out of they way of flying legs.
After shes had her fun I want mine- so I either ride, or let her know she has to work properly on the lunge- I add a roller or saddle and side reins or sometimes long rein.
I quite enjoy watching her enjoy herself.

You could also add in some trotting poles, or small jumps to your lunge work to add variety. You can lunge 'egg shapes' and put trotting poles on the long sides, or make a fan shape and use the circle to lengthen and shorten stride.

 

[FlyingCircus]

There is simply no offence to report to anyone who would be interested in hearing about it. There are thousands of horses kept this way in the UK in winter. It's not illegal to keep horses without turnout and defining "insufficient" exercise would be a legal minefield. The horse isn't ill, just too full of energy.

Which organisation did you have in mind when you suggested that the yard should be reported?

Fair point! I guess most places i.e RSPCA etc, aren't likely to care too much...a shame!

 

[Winters100]

What a very sad life for this poor horse. Personally I would not continue the loan unless they agreed to move the horse ASAP and in the meantime to pay someone to ride it twice a day. Poor horse is not being naughty - just totally frustrated at being kept in a cell

 

[greenbean10]

I've had my horse at 3 competition yards and none of them had enough turnout in the winter. At one yard, the horses went out for an hour once a week.

This way of keeping horses is so common. I am amazed that so many people are so appalled by it because very limited turnout is the norm for most of the competition yards around me. I don't like it and wouldn't do it, but having a horse living in for the winter isn't uncommon.

I think a lot of the replies are unfair on the OP, as it's so easy to start thinking it's not a big deal when you are around people who also don't think it's a big deal. One of the girls at my last yard didn't turn out in winter because she didn't want her horse to get muddy! So many people don't see a problem with stabling horses for long periods of time.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I can understand the OP's dilemma here. Around me, there are plenty of yards that don't offer winter turn - it's been that way for a long time so not necessarily due to 'modern' methods of horse keeping either. It's something I've managed to avoid in all but one yard where they weren't honest on viewing (he had 30 minutes turn out in a tiny pen AM and PM) and I left as soon as I could, but it still took a few months to find somewhere. Thankfully, he was a bit older than 5 so coped OK but was a bit fresh when we left, understandably so.

In the short term OP what are you feeding her? I'd cut out everything you can (just hay would be ideal) so that she's not getting any extra energy.

Is she safe to walk out in-hand? This will give you both a break from lunging and if you can get her off the yard, even better. We'd mix in-hand walking with foraging for herbs and stuff too.

Could you could also introduce polework in-hand to give her an opportunity to think whilst still keeping her on straight lines?

Could you teach her some in-hand enrichment in the stable - I taught my pony to 'smile', 'kiss' and 'give his leg' and a few other bits and pieces. It helped to pass the time and created a better bond..

I also used to bring things like nettles to hide in his haynets so he had some extra enrichment.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think the op has tried to recommend to move the horse and knows it's not the greatest set up for a 5 year old, and has come on here and asked for some help and advice I appreciate turnout is what is needed but I still feel a bit sorry for the loaner it sounds like they are trying to do there best.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I've had my horse at 3 competition yards and none of them had enough turnout in the winter. At one yard, the horses went out for an hour once a week.

This way of keeping horses is so common. I am amazed that so many people are so appalled by it because very limited turnout is the norm for most of the competition yards around me. I don't like it and wouldn't do it, but having a horse living in for the winter isn't uncommon.

I think a lot of the replies are unfair on the OP, as it's so easy to start thinking it's not a big deal when you are around people who also don't think it's a big deal. One of the girls at my last yard didn't turn out in winter because she didn't want her horse to get muddy! So many people don't see a problem with stabling horses for long periods of time.

I moved to a yard some years ago in January there were 35 stables, my 2 horses were the only 2 in the winter fields basically because the liveries didn't believe in winter turnout and muddy horses!!

 

[Somewhat Off The Way]

There was a thread on here recently petitioning against forced-feeding for foie gras production. But that's the accepted practice and just how things are? ...no, of course not. Unless people start challenging the accepted practice, no matter how old it may be, how will things change for the better?
Besides, there's a huge difference between Nov-Feb restricted turnout and zero turnout for 7 months!
I feel claustrophobic just reading how these poor horses are kept, what miserable lives

 

[Winters100]

I moved to a yard some years ago in January there were 35 stables, my 2 horses were the only 2 in the winter fields basically because the liveries didn't believe in winter turnout and muddy horses!!

A friend of mine has the same regarding wet weather, she is on a yard where almost no other horse owners want their horses out if it is raining, it is a huge yard and only 3 of them get turned out in the rain. Amazes me given the rugging possibilities available now for horses who feel the cold. My schoolmistress hates getting wet and gets cold quite quickly, but she still goes out whatever the weather, albeit usually in a rug 100g heavier than the geldings, and there is a nice big shelter if she wants to stand out of the wind and rain. Likewise in the warm weather I hate to hear "I put a rug on so I don't have to clean them tomorrow". Makes no sense to me - basically it is saying that the horse can suffer for 23 hours to save the owner some few extra minutes. Mine don't always look immaculate when I ride, but it takes very little time to take the mud off.

Thankfully we are on a yard where YO feels strongly about turnout and does not accept liveries unless they agree to a minimum half day turnout all year round. I would hate to be watching horses shut up all day, and cleaning a bit (or a lot) of mud from my horses is a small price to pay for their happiness.

 

[doodle]

I’m lazy and would rather groom a horse than muck out twice a day every day!

 

[KTPsurrey]

So, do you actually ride her?

Yes, she is ridden 4 times a week lunged twice a week and 1 day off.

 

[KTPsurrey]

A tricky situation OP. I think it's been fairly comprehensively said that this isn't a good way to keep a horse for the horse's sake, but I'm also thinking about your safety/welfare. You've already said you're not enjoying it trying to manage her behaviour (totally fair enough!) but this could end up with you getting hurt. In your shoes I would be pretty firmly saying either the situation needs to change or I'd be ending the loan.

Is it a full loan or part loan/share? Just wondering to what extent the owner is involved in the day to day care/management/exercise of the horse.

Also you might not have a choice about how the horse is kept but you do have a choice about the words you use to describe her - 'naughty' and 'a diva' seems highly unfair.

Yes I completely agree. Naughty is not the right word. Although the term diva is used with affection? as she has always been full of beans. she has had some v limited turnout over the past few months and I do hand graze her plus there is daily turnout in a pen For short periods she is out of her stable for at least 2-3 hours a day

 

[KTPsurrey]

I think the op has tried to recommend to move the horse and knows it's not the greatest set up for a 5 year old, and has come on here and asked for some help and advice I appreciate turnout is what is needed but I still feel a bit sorry for the loaner it sounds like they are trying to do there best.

thank you, frustrating! I do hand graze her and exercise her 6 days a week.

 

[mariew]

On the plus side it might not be long before they start turning out again. When I had my girl over the years we came to the agreement that she could turn herself inside out for 5 to 10 minutes with me doing nothing apart from as another poster make sure she didn't get tangled in the lunge line. She was very good at doing a buck then spin around 180 in the air. Then she lunged beautifully. She might have needed longer if fresh.

I do think due to losing yards to housing and wetter winters we will have to compromise to an extent if we still want horses.

 

[KTPsurrey]

I can understand the OP's dilemma here. Around me, there are plenty of yards that don't offer winter turn - it's been that way for a long time so not necessarily due to 'modern' methods of horse keeping either. It's something I've managed to avoid in all but one yard where they weren't honest on viewing (he had 30 minutes turn out in a tiny pen AM and PM) and I left as soon as I could, but it still took a few months to find somewhere. Thankfully, he was a bit older than 5 so coped OK but was a bit fresh when we left, understandably so.

In the short term OP what are you feeding her? I'd cut out everything you can (just hay would be ideal) so that she's not getting any extra energy.

Is she safe to walk out in-hand? This will give you both a break from lunging and if you can get her off the yard, even better. We'd mix in-hand walking with foraging for herbs and stuff too.

Could you could also introduce polework in-hand to give her an opportunity to think whilst still keeping her on straight lines?

Could you teach her some in-hand enrichment in the stable - I taught my pony to 'smile', 'kiss' and 'give his leg' and a few other bits and pieces. It helped to pass the time and created a better bond..

I also used to bring things like nettles to hide in his haynets so he had some extra enrichment.

Thank you. I do take her for in hand walks, ride her on long backs, lunge her twice a week and hand graze her. It’s been really hard work but I can’t give her up. We have a lovely bond and I know she isn’t really being naughty just pent up energy.

 

[Gingerwitch]

There is simply no offence to report to anyone who would be interested in hearing about it. There are thousands of horses kept this way in the UK in winter. It's not illegal to keep horses without turnout and defining "insufficient" exercise would be a legal minefield. The horse isn't ill, just too full of energy.

Which organisation did you have in mind when you suggested that the yard should be reported?

Bhs if it's an approved livery yard, but they can be as bad tbh.