naughty youngster advise please

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Kelly1982

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I was meant to have a lesson tonight but my instructor has been kicked and has had to cancel. Seen as i am not going to be able to see her for a few weeks i thought i would bug you guys.

My naughty 4yo has come up with a new evasion technique in the last few weeks. When i ask for a downward transistion she sticks her neck out like a giraffe and locks it and gets faster so i have to use my whole body weight to stop her tanking with me.

She also does this the last 3 strides into a jump. I have been using pacing poles with her which helps but as soon as the pole is taken away she's off.

I hold her all the way to the jump but it makes no difference as she just jumps it like a stag and smacks me in the face. I had a headache for 3 days after our last jumping session coz of this and a massive bruise on my jaw line.

she is ridden in a rubber d-ring snaffle for flat work and a loose ring snaffle for jumping. She was in a loose ring french link but my instructor told me to put a rubber snaffle in her as she was fighting the french link.

Anyone got any ideas?
 
I dont advocate moving the bit in their mouths, but flexing them from left to right, so that they have to soften to you can work, and saves you having to haul their back teeth out. That and halting, and then asking for a change of direction, so that they cant carry on pulling you straight, if that makes sense??!!
 
My horse did something similar and I had him in a rubber snaffle which he loves but is rude jumping in. He is very fussy in his mouth but he loves a french link baucher I think its a lot stiller in the mouth than an ordinary french link.
The other thing I was told by my trainer to do was to pull him up in front of the fence about 1 stride away. Sit down in the saddle and stop her dead. If she cannot come off a circle well mannered she is stopped. Once she is polite again he is allowed to continue. My horse is very polite now and does not rush/throw his head around but every now and again he forgets this and has to go through same treatment. I have even done it at competitions warming up. My horse automatically slows up for gridwork so no point sticking poles on floor its jumping courses that he just gets worse.
Rs canter has improved no end so a lot of it is probably balance.
 
Hmmm....I think a couple of sharp pull-ups in front of (and after if she runs on landing) the fence would probably do the trick here. Just to teach her some manners. She'll learn very quickly that rushing the fence is not allowed...
 
Yep agree with Kat!

This technique is what I use, instead of pulling back, getting the horse to flex their neck - this also helps to get the horse off its forehand!
 
I have been trying to do that but thats when she sticks her neck out and gets faster so i have to use all my weight to stop her and even then it takes a while for her to realise and she will keep walking a couple of paces in protest.

I also canter her down the diagonal and ask for a halt at X but she then just tanks with me.

I think its coz she gets so excited and she also anticipates what i am asking her to do.

Once i have managed to stop i wait for her to soften and tell her she is good before i allow her to move off again but this seems to be having no effect.

I am really gutted my lesson has been cancelled as i have really been struggling with this
 
Been doing that too and still hasn't worked
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Thats when we decided to try pacing poles
 
Just pulling to ask them to stop will just make them pull harder. Flexing them takes away the straightness that allows them to lean and be rude, you do have to be firm with them, but it does work!
 
I would upgrade the bit - I started out with rubber snaffle and cavasson. I had a lesson with a 4* eventer who said to put him in a cherry roller or waterford which I thought was a bit drastic from a rubber snaffle but have found the baucher to work a treat with a mexican grakle. I still use the rubber snaffle for flatwork/dressage and hacking.
But my horse does not pull at all really just speeds up/gets silly with his head which I guess could be the difference.
 
So i flex as i am asking her to slow with my seat?? Is that correct??

Your definatly right when i ask she just gets faster so i pull back and she tanks.

She doesn't do it everytime but it is increasing more and more.
 
Think of how you ask her to stop. You ask with your back, and gently wrap legs around them, whilst asking with your hands. instead of asking with a straight hand pressure, increase the pressure as you would to stop, but ask for left then right flexion through the neck. Removing the channel to tank through, should reducve tanking. If she is still rude, ask for exaggerated flexion, and really don't accept continuos forward tanking. This will also encourage her to keep her head lower. You do need to keep her straight with your leg and seat though, otherwise she will wiggle, which becomes very uncomfortable!! You just want flexion through the neck. Hope this helps!!
 
If you flex to the right open your hand like you are opening a door (open it out not down or across the wither).
With the outside (left) hand push this forward so allowing the bend/flexion.

Do this on the flat - hold the flex until she lets go! keep her going forward, you can do this when you are on a circle or on the long/short side. Sprial in and spiral out doing this also gets them connect up behind and lighten the forehand. I rode a lovely mare who was too (apparently) strong but this technique worked brilliantly on her keeping her soft and relaxed ment she couldnt pull against anything! if you pull they pull.

Give it a go! it does really work
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but dont get into the *horses head going side to side) this should be a definite flex and then ride the horse straight! only doing so when the horse gives to you! there is nothing worse than seeing a horses head rocking side to side.

Good luck
 
I'm prepared to be stamped on for saying this, but sounds like a couple of sessions in draw reins should help her realise she shouldn't be doing it. Can also help with teaching the flexion thing.
 
Probably a bit late now but.....I had the same problem with my mare, work on halting in front of the fence as soon as you feel them setting against you (close knees into the saddle and keep your heels down to help you halt), pat her as soon as she comes back to you and also keep the canter after the fence to keep concentration.

It took me a few weeks but the jump is now a lot more settled. Also upgraded bit to a nathe pelham which has worked wonders.

Good luck!
 
Glad you said that, as thats what I would do! Obviously not something for the less experienced but can be useful if used appropriately.
 
To be honest I agree too. Obviously if you can try without the draw reins and get a result then great. People moan about the use of draw reins but they can be bloody useful !

every one Ive ever worked for (this includes Leslie) has used them quite often and got the results they wanted... they're not great but i wouldn't be too bothered about giving them a try if I was you.

* waits to be stamped on! *
 
You could try a neck strap. Pulling at the mouth making her flex etc could make her tense and make herself set herself against you even more when it is the mouth that she is clearly running away from in the first place. If you can teach them to stop by using the seat enforced with hauling at a neck strap they do actually listen to you more rather then them getting angry and panicky with you which is liable to happen when the mouth is used ..

Perhaps put a martingale or draw reins on and teach her to halt in walk by pulling the neck strap and backing up with your seat (try making the stomach and seatbones really heavy- like make youself as 'fat' as possible)- they soon get the hang of it after a few goes- then pat her every time she stops for you- then go up to trot and try stopping again using the neck strap and seat - trot halt trot halt loads and loads of them, then up to canter try the same again then hopefully she'll be listening to you more and will be nice and calm. Just 100's of transitions-spirralling in and out on circles keeping her straight etc.. She must halt exactly when you ask her and go forwards exactly when you ask her(sharp smack if she does not go forwards immedently).If then she is round and soft and fully engaged she should hopefully hold her balance into a fence, if she doesnt, cricle her again until she is listening.

Could work or could not work maybe have a go
 
This is my favourite exercise for horses ignoring the downward trans aid.......it also is magic for those that will cut/lean in on corners.

Assuming your arena has good solid fence/hedge/wall...........
Start in walk, walk right into the corner of the arena and halt, straight, facing the wall. Turn, praise and walk on.........repeat in each corner. Only halt for a moment or so, too long and the horse will fidget or get anxious.
Then repeat the exercise in trot.
You MUST be disciplined in the exercise. Trot straight at the wall. Halt straight. Only use as much strength as nec. Always using correct aids.......seat, leg, rein to 'block' not pull. The idea is that the wall is the final brake, that you don't need to 'pull' to stop. Gradually the horse will anticipate the aid and required reaction and start to stop more by himself as you start to sit up etc.
You can then ask for the downward trans further from the corner and then anywhere in the school. Go back to the above exercise if he 'forgets'!
The exercise can also be done in canter but for more advanced horses only.
 
thats ok if you have an arena but not ok in an open field
a horse will learn when ridden using the correct aids to half halt
that it has no where to go but stop -- transistions downwards are the most easy to apply with out a wall a fence
 
Lots of great suggestions here..but you have to ask yourself why this horse has started evading in this way. Might just be naughty or you might be pushing on with the training too strongly?
 
Of course it's OK in an open field..........most fields have corners, sometimes we just have to improvise.

In a perfect world what you're saying is correct but unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. My response was to the original poster who was having problems with her horse NOT responding correctly to the aids and was designed to help her find a solution to her problem.

Your reply was not particularly helpful.
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I dont think i am pushing her too strongly, she gets worked about 5 times a week for 20mins-30mins.

If she is good then the session is ended sooner. I have been having lessons on her once a month and my instructor says that my routine with her is fine.

I think she is just taking the p*ss out of me coz she knows she can.

I must admit i lost it with her last night and gave her a few hard whacks with the whip (i never carry a whip and was ashamed for using it) but she was good as gold afterwards. She knows what she is meant to be doing but she also knows that she can take the mick and does as she is too clever for her own good.
 
I would also agree with popping her in a pair of draw reins- not to pull her head in but just to remind her how she should be going.
With regards to doing it in front of a fence try riding a circle first to keep her soft and round, keep her on the circle until she is flexing and bending more. Once she softens then approach the fence- ride the cirlces again when you land.
You MUST plan the circles however not just haul her round!Otherwise you will inadvertenly(SP!) teach her to run out.
 
Don't agree personally with using draw reins on a young horse. Sometimes they behave how they do because they cant do anything else. Putting draw reins on stops them from being able to use their own balance, and work themselves. By the sounds of things, she is doing what alot of youngsters do, which is falling on her forehand and towing, this is proven by the facty a few smacks (although not advocating) made her pickherself up, work properly, and solved the problem.
Draw reins will not help the overall problem, they will just treat the symptom, not the cause.
 
Hi all

Thanks for all your advise it has really helped, seen as there has been a bit of a debate going on
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i thought i would let you know how we are getting on.

Tuesday i deceided to lunge and she was as good as gold, Wednesday we started out really well but as soon as it was time to canter all hell broke loose
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, she was running into canter and carting me left right and centre so i took her right back to basics, everytime she went to tank off i sat as hard as i could until we halted, i then waited til she softened told her she was good and walked her on, if she pulled to tank again i would sit deep again making her halt til she walked off properly. I also tried doing KatB and BB's flex thing which seemed to help, the battle lasted 30mins with her being tense but still taking ages to actually stop. Last night she was so much better, we started off taking a while to stop but eventually started to get the hang of it. I did lots and lots of transitions and in the end she seemed to know what i was thinking before i even asked and stopped. She was still taking a while to soften but a big improvement on the night before and a lot more relaxed. Her canter was soooo much better too and she stayed a lot more collected. She did try to run into it a few times but i just sat deep again bringing her to a halt, waited for her to soften and then asked again. Still a lot more work to do but she is getting the hang of it.

I also spoke to my instructor and she agrees that she is taking the p*ss and basically told me to carry on doing what i was with her and maybe upgrade her bit for a few days to get some manners back into her. She also gave me lots of excersises to do when it comes to jumping.

I didn't want to start putting draw reins on her as i know what damage they can do and i dont feel confident enough to use them without my instructor present.

Thanks for all your advice and support, i have taken it all on board and will continue to use it
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