Navicular- any experiences, please help

[Paint it Lucky]

My friends horse has been diagnosed with severe navicular in both front feet. Her vet doesn't see much hope of recovery (mare has been lame for awhile, they've tried remedial shoeing and cortisone injections but neither have helped.) My friend has had a lot of bad luck with this mare, she bought her less than a year ago with hopes of going eventing but she started going lame in the summer (had problems with her hind suspensories and very accident prone in general (knocked herself in the field, cuts etc). She's not been right for a few months now and the coritsone injections into the feet were the vets last hope really. Vet now thinks she'll never come right and that she should be put down

But I know this vet and they are always very morbid like this, he has the view that if a horse can't be used for competition there is no point keeping it. He is also very traditional and not open to new ideas. I would really like to be able to offer my friend some good advice, she is going through a hard time at the moment, she had really high hopes for this mare (her last horse also got written off though she still has her, semi-retired in a field). I have heard of horses with navicular being really helped by going barefoot and am a big believer in the benefits of this myself, but my friend is sceptical and feels she should just do as the vet says. But as vet basically says there is no hope I don't see what she has to loose by trying? Horse though technically lame jumped out of her field last week and is still ful of beans and happy in herself, so it is certainly not a question that it is cruel to keep her alive. I know my friend would never take the decision of having her put to sleep lightly, more likely she will just retire her too and have two horses she can't ride. So I really need some good stories (if there are any!) to help her and to stop her losing hope! If anyone can help it would be really appreciated.

 

[amandap]

I've no personal experience of it but have read many positive stories.
Here's a couple of links for starters.
http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/RockleyFarm/Home.html Look at Project Dexter and the blog.

There's an article on navicular here, bottom of the page. http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof articles by Pete Ramey.htm

These are both barefoot options for rehab.

 

[Carefreegirl]

My previous horse had navicular. Went down the usual route of remedial shoeing, navilox (sp?). His X-rays showed very little sign of it but def there. I had him insured for loss of use so got paid out. It was an awful time though as I'm not a happy hacker. He wouldn't stand up to competing and I couldn't bear to ask him. I'd had him from weaning and he was 10. Luckily we have a blood bank near us and they took him. The owner said lots of the horses there have navicular and as their barefoot they find their own natural balance. My vets said at the time that he's seen xrays like my horse that showed very slight changes so my horse shouldn't of shown the amount of lameness he had but he's seen other X-rays where he thought the horse should of been pts because of the changes shown but were out sj and competing at affiliated level. Maybe horses like people have different pain thresholds ?

 

[Carefreegirl]

Sorry the word I was trying to think of was degeneration not changes.

 

[muff747]

My vets said at the time that he's seen xrays like my horse that showed very slight changes so my horse shouldn't of shown the amount of lameness he had but he's seen other X-rays where he thought the horse should of been pts because of the changes shown but were out sj and competing at affiliated level. Maybe horses like people have different pain thresholds ?

Check out the Hoofrehab site (Pete Ramey), he mentions the research done by Dr Bowker. He found the same after desecting hundreds of cadavers from horses that had been pts, sound or lame. He found some sound horses had damage to the NB and others which had been pts due to chronic lameness had very little if not no damage to the NB. That is why it is not called Navicular disease or even Navicular syndrome any more.
My gelding was dx with NS twelve years ago and was shod with remedial shoes for the next seven years during which time, he gradually deteriorated. The next step would have been de-nerve but I couldn't contemplate that. So I tried barefoot and he was off pain killers within a year and I was riding him again with three months. He wouldn't be here now if I'd listened to my vet or my farrier but he's 24 now and fit as a fiddle. All well and good you being for barefoot - it needs your friend to be convinced. Why not ask your trimmer to advise your friend?
BTW there are many many (probably hundreds or thousands ) of happy endings like mine

 

[TheCurlyPony]

My horse was diagnosed with NS in October, thankfully it mild, in one foot only, my advice would be to go barefoot. Another poster has mentioned Rockley, call them. Even if going there is out of the question they will give you a lot of good advice. Diet is the key. Also google everything you can find, get on the barefoot forums everyone is very helpful and understanding. Good luck

 

[Oberon]

Dr Bowker's research has found that navicular starts with lesions to the tendons.
http://www.healthyhoof.com/articles/BarefootList/BowkerPhysiologicalTrim.html

Navicular is almost unheard of in unshod horses. Those BF horses who have developed navicular have done so due to inappropriate trimming (inappropriate for THE horse, I mean.)

The problem with navicular horses is the back of the hoof.

The digital cushion, lateral cartilages, heels and caudal frog need to be strong and in good condition in order for the horse to be able to land heel first. This heel first landing is essential for the dissipation of force and concussion and for the tendons, ligaments and joints to work as they should.

The toe first landing is characteristic of a navicular horse. This can sometimes start with simple sulcus thrush causing pain at the back of the hoof! Then the 'pulley system' of the navicular bone and the tendons gets impaired, lesions develop and eventually there is bone deterioration of the navicular bone itself. The impar ligament is also affected.

So how do we fix it?

Traditionally the answer (to everything) is to shoe to SUPPORT the back of the hoof with heart bars.

This will bring relief for a time, but when it stops working then we go to wedges to 'take the pressure' off the tendons.

When this stops working the answer is often PTS.

There are also drugs to improve circulation.

The BF way is to remove the shoes, trim appropriately and allow the back of the hoof to DEVELOP.

The lack of shoes allows the circulation to improve and the hoof mechanism to work as it was designed to, thus allowing the tendons to heal.

It honestly is THAT simple.

Unfortunately the veterinary profession is (mostly) refusing to see this as an option (see Rockley's Blog for today).

This is Schoko - a livery's horse. He has been sound since the shoes were removed and is doing anything his owners want to now.
http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/html/shoko.html

If you have a look at your friend's horse's hooves - I'll bet the heels look narrow and weak.
In comparison - this is what healthy heel should look like.

 

[Carefreegirl]

My horses navicular was caused by bad foot balance due to bad shoeing. Farrier I'd used forever and trusted. Needless to say I learnt a hell of a lot about foot dynamics very quickly. Also have a new farrier (this was 6 yrs ago)

 

[pastel]

we have had horses over the years of all ages sent to us to retire with navicular syndrome , one horse aged 12 had bar shoes on for a year then we took them off and trimmed him regularly, he came sound and went back to his owner for hacking. some of the others are still going strong (34yrs old), drug free and have a good quality of life.

 

[Holly Hocks]

My horse has navicular in both fronts, bilateral spavin and hind limb suspensory ligaments are knackered. Vet recommended injections, remedial shoeing etc etc. I brought her home and took her shoes off.....she is currently out in a boggy field so her feet aren't really rehabbing yet, but it gives her plenty of time off until I get her re x-rayed/scanned in Spring.....hopefully I'll then get her hoof boots and start off walking her in hand before taking her to be rescanned/x-rayed - heres hoping!!

 

[china]

i have a 14 year old tb with navicular in both fronts. on a scale of 10 he was at about 4 at the time. We tried remedial shoeing with no luck. i didnt want him having injections and my vet didnt suggest it either. he went on a course of navilox and i used magnetic bell boots. The remedial shoeing didnt work and we went for the barefoot option. had nothing to loose!! he is now moving better than ever before! although not completely sound due to other reasons! he moves straight and with more enthusiasm then ever before. he wears easyboot gloves to hack in. his feet are high maintainence but hes worth it. and its cheaper farrier bills! i have some photos of his barefoot transition. if you would like me to email you my experience with his barefoot photos to show your friend im more than happy to do so. navicular isnt the end of the road as most people seem to think!

 

[Bikerchickone]

I think my horse is going to be diagnosed with navicular anytime soon. He's not lame, but has a very strange pointing posture. My vet suggested we try wedges on the heels of his fronts to see if we could correct this posture issue, which it's done (we had doubts as my boy had a bad back a short time ago) so now we're going to x ray and see what's going on inside. Luckily my vet is very positive and has already said to me that navicular isn't the end of the road, it just requires careful management.

I'd be tempted to see if I could get advice from another vet in the area, and I too am looking into how BF might help my boy.

 

[Oberon]

I think my horse is going to be diagnosed with navicular anytime soon. He's not lame, but has a very strange pointing posture. My vet suggested we try wedges on the heels of his fronts to see if we could correct this posture issue, which it's done (we had doubts as my boy had a bad back a short time ago) so now we're going to x ray and see what's going on inside. Luckily my vet is very positive and has already said to me that navicular isn't the end of the road, it just requires careful management.

I'd be tempted to see if I could get advice from another vet in the area, and I too am looking into how BF might help my boy.

Have a look at the Rockley blog and do a search for Dillon (with the wedges).

 

[china]

The way I see barefoot is if the farrier or trimmer has their head screwed on and does a good job. The feet do what is natural for the horse. Mines has completely changed shape because that what they were meant to do. Not what the metal shoes wanted them to do! Appologies this is my first time replying on my phone!

 

[cptrayes]

The navicular horse I took on last year and gave away once I had barefoot rehabbed him hunted with me two weeks ago with his new owner. He had had every treatment possible and was about to be put down when I took him on.

Another horse that I used to own was diagnosed in August with a 20% chance of ever working again and he was fully sound after 6 weeks at Rockley.

Don't listen to those vets!

 

[superpony]

I have a horse with navicular he was diagnosed 18 months ago I admit I was also not convinced by barefoot and did the Navilox eggbars etc. Well 6 months ago he went downhill couldn't keep
Him sound couldn't turn a circle without nearly falling over despite being on bute he was constantly pulling his eggbars off so I decided in dec to take his shoes off and leave him for the winter.

The difference is unbelievable after only a few weeks he

 

[superpony]

Sorry stupid phone he is now sound and hoping to get on him again soon!! And I thought he would never be ridden again!

 

[Oberon]

Really pleased for you annabel2009, well done!

Looking back now doesn't it make you gob smacked that something so simple isn't the first option from the vets? And that if you hadn't taken that step to back off and take the shoes off, then your vet may be suggesting PTS now

And people think I'm the nutter

 

[superpony]

Really pleased for you annabel2009, well done!

Looking back now doesn't it make you gob smacked that something so simple isn't the first option from the vets? And that if you hadn't taken that step to back off and take the shoes off, then your vet may be suggesting PTS now

And people think I'm the nutter

Thank you Oberon. It was you and some of the others on here who persuaded me when I wasn't sure!

We were thinking of pts as he was quite lame and the vets said there wasn't much more they could do. He has improved so much and changing has saved me alot of £££ now that I don't have to pay £100 a set every 4-5 weeks and then another £10 each time he pulled a shoe off which was generally happening at least once or twice a month!

 

[Goldenstar]

Take the shoes off trim and feed and exercise apporiatly invest time in reading and learning look at the rockley websiteand think why aresome people are so sure there is another way ,what does your friend have lose she should just give it a go.
I am really reassessing so many things I took for granted since I sort fell into barefoot with one of mine and honestly if one on this yard had even a sniff of a navicular type symptom shoes off would be my first port of call.

 

[tallyho!]

Yes mine had navi in OF. Tried everything.

Took shoes off. Haven't looked back. Would give it serious consideration and contact experienced professionals who have tried this method.

 

[summerguest]

My TB was diagnosed 5 years ago, She has been barefoot since and has had two episodes where she went lame for a few months and was on bute for these
periods. She has only done light work since (due to other circumstances) so don't know if she would stay sound doing hard work. I am a firm believer of taking off shoes sticking them in a field and letting mother nature have a go before doing anything serious to them!

 

[Solar]

I think my horse is going to be diagnosed with navicular anytime soon. He's not lame, but has a very strange pointing posture.

Take a look at the posts on the Rockley blog about my boy, Solar. He is currently there and doing really well.

He went barefoot after I asked on here about pointing. That was his usual way of standing, even when not lame he would still point and that just didn't seem right to me. He had a diagnosis of a bony spur above his navicular bursa this year.

His posture is improving all the time since being barefoot

 

[muff747]

and hind limb suspensory ligaments are knackered. ......heres hoping!!

Sorry to say, the SL's don't usually heal and I've been advised riding gives them pain so my gelding is retired, field ornament. I've tried slowly carefully bringing him back into work several times, but always resulted in regression.
Vets here don't recognise it unless the fetlocks are dropped but they can have the disease without dropped fetlocks.....sorry

 

[imr]

My 21yo went lame aged 10 and we have managed the condition successfully. We have had a few periods of lameness but no more than a year in aggregate over 11 years, including the initial bout. He has egg bar shoes which are very rounded in front and I get his feet done every 4 weeks or so. It does not have to be a disaster.

If she has tried cortisone and shoes, my first suggestion would be to get a referral to an orthopaedic specialist and for them to do a full work up and try to treat it. There are vets and vets and farriers and farriers - I had five months of local vet (who was good btw) and normal farrier with limited success before mine went to Michael Schramme at AHT (he is in the US now) and his farrier Mark Rose - 10 days there and he came back sound. If that does not work then the rockley farm route may be an option. Pete Clegg at Liverpool Vet Sch is in the process of doing a study with them so conventional vets certainly do believe it can be an option. Personally I am a big believer in each horse is different and it may take trial and error to find a solution which works to manage the problem. Navicular is also not one single disease or condition, there are a whole range of different possible causes from bone degeneration to torn DDFTs to things in between and a mix. It may be a disaster, but there are good reasons not to just give up and assume it is a disaster.

 

[cptrayes]

Two cautions from me. First, the only barefoot rehab I know to have failed to return the horse to work was with a bone spur in one foot. The horse was lame in both and came sound in both but was lame again on the one with the bone spur whenever the work load increased above a gentle hack. Since she was not a gentle hack, she was put down.

Two, navicular bone degeneration is very little use in indicating whether a horse will return to work. For example, on the strength of the amount of degeneration in the navicular bone, a friend of mine had a diagnosis from a top horse medical school that her horse had very little chance of ever doing more than gentle hacking. After six weeks at Rockley Farm he was sound in walk trot and canter and remains so.

 

[paddy555]

Sorry to say, the SL's don't usually heal and I've been advised riding gives them pain so my gelding is retired, field ornament. I've tried slowly carefully bringing him back into work several times, but always resulted in regression.
Vets here don't recognise it unless the fetlocks are dropped but they can have the disease without dropped fetlocks.....sorry

sorry but I agree with this unfortunately from experience.