Navicular First-Timer

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petra_styles

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Evening all,

I wonder if anyone online tonight has any experience of navicular disease? My horse is to be nerve blocked and x-rayed later this week to confirm the vet / farrier suspicions that his lameness is indeed navicular.
Really I suppose essentially what I am asking for here is any information you might have on how you dealt with the issue and how easily the horse can be "rehabilitated"... Please excure my ignorance... I have had two ponies with laminitis but never dealt with a horse with Navicular!

Thanks all :)
 
I have recently had a horse diagnosed with early stages of Navicular. This was done with an MRI not X-ray.

How lame is the horse. My horse has had treatment and my vet says that she will go back competing.

The treatment she had was Tildren. I have also got her on the Hilton Herbs NavX. She is also in Egg bar shoes. This treatment was done in the middle of June ands his 100% sound now.
She is back in work and doing well.

Navicular is not the end of riding them.
 
My horse was diagnosed 2 years ago. He had Navilox and egg bar shoes. He was fine at first but then went downhill dramatically. Despite being totally unconvinced about barefoot there was nothing to loose by trying it as he was v lame and we were thinking he would have to be pts
 
Stupid phone!! But when I took his shoes off he came sound v quickly and is now being ridden again. So it may be worth thinking about that option if he does have navicular.
 
Thank you for your replies... He has been lame on and off for a few months and has been on danilon / box rest / walking work etc... In all about three different appointments that were all fairly inconclusive except to determine it is not a muscular issue - though the lameness has resulted in muscular changes which will need to be addressed when he is sound. The farrier was out on friday, saw him trotted up and shod him with longer heels and slight wedged
 
My horse was diagnosed with changes to his left navicular bone at the age of 10 and was given Navilox for about six weeks and remedial shoes for the next eight years. I was riding him and doing dressage but no jumping but then after nearly a year of retirement due to lameness, even on bute, I opted for shoes off. I was riding him again after three months and off bute by four months. I had another eighteen months of riding hacking and competing him before other health issues forced retirement.
I really wished the barefoot movement had been around a lot earlier for my horse as I would have had many more years of riding him before his body failed. I came to realise that it was the shoes that had caused my horses feet to grow deformed, i.e. collapsed heels. Once they were off, his hooves completely regained their original natural shape and that restored the blood flow to his feet and the pain that caused the lameness disappeared.
I would recommend trying that route as there is so much help and support for you whilst going through rehab these days.
Good luck
 
My ID mare was diagnosed with early changes of navicular last year after an MRI scan. Vet and farrier worked closely with each other, I was advised to turn her out as much as possible and continue riding. So far so good :D She's sound and happy and being ridden about 4-5 times a week.

Barefoot is also an option.
 
Navicular disease normally shows up in horses at around 11yrs of age, these horses have normally been shod 7 or 8 years, sometimes less.

The navicular bone always appears quite small when you see it on hoof diagrams, but in actual fact this really isn't the case. It is quite large and forms part of the joint between P3 and P2. This joint allows a variety of movement, and is supported by the Digital Cushion.

It is therefore essential that the Digital Cushion should be well developed. When the Digital Cushion isn’t well developed, it is soft and consist of fatty material. When the Digital Cushion is well developed, it is hard and consist of Fibro-Cartilage.

In shod horses the Digital Cushion is weak and not well developed, it provides no support for the joint. Traditional remedial shoeing attempts to provide this support but is ineffectual in developing the Digital Cushion. Therefore a period of time passes where the horse appears to improve, this however is followed by a more catastrophic break down.

The only way to combat navicular disease in all its forms is to develop, strengthen and improve the Digital Cushion. This can only be done when the horse is properly barefoot, getting the correct amount of movement and exercise, with the hoof having the correct heel first landing allowing the Digital Cushion to provide the support and shock absorption for the joint.

Hope this makes sense.:)
 
I would agree with Pale rider. The navicular only gets the support it needs and is in the position it needs to be in to avoid being compromised if the digital cushion on the back of the hoof/heel is lovely and strong and bulbous.

That can be the case with shod horses (my IDxTB had shoes off last year but strangely has a lovely DC even tho he was shod for 16 years, but he did have a good farrier) but thats the exception Ive found and he had the benefit of big strong hooves and no other hoof issues and a light workload. He remains navi free at 20.

Looking at the X rays of hooves and the DCs of unshod versus the majority of shod horses you can see why the incidence of navicular in 'never shod' horses is I believe a lot lot less than for shod horses (even allowing for shod horses perhaps doing work that might cause more strain).

I wouldnt be messing around with this and that remedial shoeing with a navi case, I would be getting the shoes off asap and allowing the support for the hoof to develop, easing the workload of the navicular area.
 
My boy is the first of Oberon's examples. He's been home now since the beginning of June and aside from a small ripple when he first got home, and a larger problem after my Timothy Purple Haylage being contaminated with ryegrass (!!!) he's doing amazingly well. We've done a flatwork clinic with my instructor who says she's never seen him make canter transitions as well as he is now (after a good 18months of no schooling!) and he feels totally different to ride. Saddler and osteopath have also commented about how much improved he is.

I got lots of grief for my decision to take him to Rockley and still people don't like to talk about it, but it's been worth it. Dom is my horse of a lifetime and having had him since a yearling he deserved the best possible chances. However the thing that truly clinched it for me was my anti barefoot vet telling me that he didn't think trying barefoot would do any damage to Dom and he could go back to conventional treatement if we needed to. We haven't needed to yet, and I'm very optimistc that we never will do.

It's horrible getting this kind of diagnosis but as Oberon once told me, it isn't the end of the world, honestly. If you want any more information feel free to pm me and I'll do my best to help. :)
 
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Can only recommend http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/

My horse went there after conventional treatments through the vets & remedial farriery.

If I had my time again I would have skipped the year of "traditional" treatment and sent him straight to Nic :)

Best thing that I ever did and he is now a happy horsey working 6 days a week.
 
Lancelot said:
Can only recommend http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/

My horse went there after conventional treatments through the vets & remedial farriery.

If I had my time again I would have skipped the year of "traditional" treatment and sent him straight to Nic :)

Best thing that I ever did and he is now a happy horsey working 6 days a week.
Click to expand...

Ooh which one is yours Lancelot? Pm if you prefer, are you RRR this year?
 
Agree with shoe removal and diet, environment and exercise management with a GOOD experienced trimmer who will be able to advise an all the above.
 
Me too. Barefoot rehab after tildren, adequan, HLA and bar shoes failed has now been sound in full work including hunting/jumping for over two years.
 
Thank you everyone for your advice and experiences. It actually makes me feel a little better that there are so many success stories!
The vet is coming out on Monday to do the tests, so I will post after that to let you know the verdict and how the big man is getting on :)
I suppose that I was a little scared as for me, it was uncharted territory!
 
nan-bit said:
Thank you everyone for your advice and experiences. It actually makes me feel a little better that there are so many success stories!
The vet is coming out on Monday to do the tests, so I will post after that to let you know the verdict and how the big man is getting on :)
I suppose that I was a little scared as for me, it was uncharted territory!
Click to expand...

I think everyone freaks out when they get a diagnosis like that :)

Your vet is likely to recommend the standard heart/egg bars and possibly wedges, plus drugs.

If you mention barefoot - you are likely to get a negative response from them unless they have seen it work before :(.

The old remedy of 'turn them away' falls in opposition with the insurance company's NOW NOW NOW approach. So the vets feel they need to 'be doing something' and thus letting nature heal the horse isn't considered to be the first option :(
 
You might also bear in mind how many of us are barefoot with horses that both farriers and vets have said will never manage without shoes. It's the worst feet that improve the most.

Some require very onerous and detailed management, I won't pretend they don't, but most horses can do it and most of those do it fairly easily.
 
I'd be very carefully about letting him b shod with long heals or wedges and both is a bit extreme from ur farrier. It will really unbalance the hoof and put pressure on the tip of the pedal bone. This could then cause lami or pain here and in turn cause him to put more pressure on heals to try and releave pedal bone. This causes heels to grow even longer. So get into a cycle!! Also if done for a long time the tendon will tighten up and cause more issue and when u take wedge off or shorten heel a tighter tendon will put more pressure on vascular bone!!

I was given a navIcular horse (14yr old , bIg 16.3 Idx) in bar shoes and on bute with poor prognosis (had a neurecromy, but these often grow back and foot become more painful). He kindly pulled his own shoes off the week before I was going to take them off (tried to get some length to foot so could trim it and it not be too short or unbalanced).

Fortunately he never had any issues with barefoot. After a year of good trimming, suitable feed and some light exercise (including regular use of horse walker for shoes periods) he was completely sound. fortnatley I am a trImmer so could trim as needed and not have to wait or book in! Vet was shocked. He was then rehomed and went on to do jumping :-)

Hope things work out for u. X
 
Hi

I have a horse that had navicular. ;) Never considered remidial shoeing, went straight down the barefoot route. He is sound, and much, much happier. I would follow the advice you get on here, and prepare to go against your vets advice of High Heels.:D
 
TheCurlyPony said:
Hi

I have a horse that had navicular. ;) Never considered remidial shoeing, went straight down the barefoot route. He is sound, and much, much happier. I would follow the advice you get on here, and prepare to go against your vets advice of High Heels.:D
Click to expand...

^^^^ this!

My mare has navicular, aka soft tissue damage, probably as a result of poor foot balance over an extended period. My vet was super supportive of taking her barefoot as he agreed that it is a valid treatment. Within 12 weeks and two trims she was considerably sounder and, had I not put her in foal, I have no doubt I'd be back on board now. She is turned away at the moment but completely sound in all gaits in the field. I've continued to have her trimmed while she has been out and it's all looking so much better.

For me it was shoeing that had caused the issue so it made sense that removing them could, and would, help it. I've removed the shoes from my other 2 TB's as well - one before my mares diagnosis and one after - and have seen positive changes in them too.

Good luck.
 
So, the vet was out to Luke yesterday and did flexion tests, nerve blocks and x-rays.
He was 3/5 lame on the day of the examinations, which is his consistent level of lameness.
He responded right away to the first set of blocks, which meant the lameness was coming from the heel area.
The navicular x-rays did not show the typical changes to the navicular bone, but from the side view, he had a very long "spur" at the top, on the back of the navicular bone. The vet thinks this has been caused by a field injury and that there is nothing we could have done to prevent the spur from developing.
Now, he is to have egg-bar shoes and if there is no improvement in a fortnight, he recommends medicating the navicular bursa. Operating on the spur is not an option. A neurectomy was suggested as a last straw, but I did not feel comfortable with this.
Essentially, however he has injured himself, it means that there will come a time when we can no longer medicate it.

I am going ahead with the egg-bars, magnetic boots and Cortaflex supplements, as these can only help... If the shoes don't work, I will certainly try the barefoot option.

Thank you for your suggestions and experiences once again. I am still looking into all of the options to make him as comfortable as possible.
 
Best of luck. One thing to bear in mind is with shoes, boots and cortaflex you are actually just treating symptoms as opposed to treating the cause. I have been where you are now and am now barefoot. My only regret is that I wasted valuable time progressing the navicular while trying to alleviate the symptoms and ignoring the cause. While my horse in not 100 % sound out of boots yet he is not requiring any pain relief and is certainly not digressing at all. The vet sent me home last June with lots of danilon after telling me pts was option when drugs and shoes no longer work. Ps. My navicular diagnosis was probably wrong (MRI showed same damage in boh feet but he was only lame rf at his time) as once shoes were off we discovered low grade laminitis.
 
Before I get shot down.in flames I have nothing against barefoot. Just wanted to say I would expect fewer unshod horses with navicular because there's fewer unshod horses.
 
Not shooting but;) what about horses that had navicular in shoes but now they wear no shoes are sound ? Thats why
Alot of people are trying barefoot, well why I am anyway.
 
My horse has navicular and coffin joint pain, and spavins.
He is about 18 now.
He now wears heart bars and has had his navicular on one foot and coffin joint injected too on one foot.
There apparently is no damage to the navicular, proved by MRI and x rays , he was 6/10 lame.
He will never be sound,
1st vet in newmarket wanted to put him down,
2nd vet said no treatment as no damage,
3rd vet treated as he said if pain worth treating.
Its worked for him.
But I do wonder if I took his shoes off he would need no treatment ,( I'm not brave enough to take shoes off for fear of going against the vet, and having to explain myself )
or he is just an old horse now...and thats often what happens ?

Whats in the back of my mind now is that the yard I am at there is a good school surface , and no road work and hacking is all on grass tracks. (not the case before)
 
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