Navicular/Neurectomy

[jojoebony]

Probably spelt wrong.
My four year old is now crippled with navicular disease in his off fore (it's in both but the off is worse and he may also have Spavin). He was fine whilst on a course of Adequan but as soon as it stopped he went terribly lame.
Vet came out Friday and said it's a cut and dry loss of use claim and that he would advise getting rid of the horse now as the chances are he'll never be rideable.
He's given me a few options:
1. Treat him with Adequan again, take his shoes off, turn him away for 12 months and see what happens - only prob is he gets VERY bored out in the field with no work and gets in to lots of trouble - vet thinks it will be a miracle if he comes sound enough to ride.
2. Treat him with Adequan now, leave his shoes on, bute him and get a bit of riding out of him - however, may then not be 100% happy and become nappy.
3. A Neurectomy to cut the nerve to the foot and therefore relieve any pain - I said no straight away but wondered if anyone had any experience.
4. Get rid one way or the other! I'm pretty sure no one will have him as a companion as he's so wild in field and big (should make 16.3 and is a fairly fine/wimpy TB) and I would worry about him ending up in a dealers yard.
Provisionally I opted for no 1 but really don't think he'll settle enough in the field and will end up injuring himself or another horse badly.
From an outsiders point of view what would you do?

Jo

 

[dozzie]

From an outsiders point of view I would say pts, and buy another horse. As a 4 yr old you could have many years of anguish and medication bills.

If you turn him away for 12 months the insurance wont pay up so you need to sort it out now.

However making that decision is going to be hard and I wouldnt want to have to make it!

I certainly wouldnt loan him as too many of these horses end up in the sales ring. And realistically who would take on a horse needing medication for ever.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I feel very sorry for you and your horse.

 

[RachelB]

Personally I agree with dozziesmummy. I did a bit of research into navi last week when we were convinced my horse was going to be diagnosed (she wasn't thank heavens) and by the sound of things your horse is in lots of pain and has very little hope for a happy future. I certainly wouldn't ride him buted up if he was that lame, it would just mask the pain and god knows what other damage he could do if he couldn't feel it. That also applies to the neurectomy - if the horse can't feel part of its foot, he may go "lame" again without actually being lame (as he can't feel it) and could do far more damage. If he's unhappy in the field and unhappy to be retired, with chances as slim as you seem to feel they are at the mo I would *personally* call it a day. Although of course it is entirely your decision and a very personal thing, and of course I am not in your position so can't really make a proper judgement. If you sold him he would probably as you say end up in a dealer's yard being sold as a perfectly rideable animal.
So from an outsider's POV I would probably PTS.
I'm really sorry for you that it has come to this, it must be upsetting especially in such a young horse. I hope you make the right decision for you and your horse.

 

[Partoow]

I would agree with the above. For such a young horse to have such a problem it points to his quality of life being very limited. Also it would point to there being other degenerative problems in the future. The 'de-nerving' option is not really that successful in that the nerve can regrow and your poor horse would have to endure all this pain again. Pts is for me a difficult and at the same time commonsense option. You can then be sure that he had the best help, care and the end of his days he was treated with dignity and respect. Which is the best we can do for our animals.
This is difficult but you will have the comfort of knowing you were humane and you did your best. XXX

 

[brightmount]

Having had a horse with navicular (50:50 disease/syndrome) come good with barefoot podiatry, you might expect me to disagree with the advice given. However for a horse to be in such trouble at such a young age isn't a good sign. In your position I would probably be going down the route of a dignified exit, but beforehand I would just talk it through with a qualified Equine Podiatrist, especially if you have x-rays and scans. I think this is the only alternative that could save your horse, even though the chances may not be great, and I would want to have at least discussed it with an expert in this field before making that hard decision.

Find a qualified EP on this site:

http://www.epauk.org/

In my experience they are honest about what is achievable on a case by case basis, and they don't promise miracles and raise false hopes.

Neurectomy isn't something I would contemplate in a young horse as it solves nothing in the long term.

 

[lizzie_liz]

I apologise if this is going to end a long message, but would be easier if i gave you the whole story.

We got Honey as a 4 year old in 2000, she was regularly worked and never got turned away, something i regret doing. In 2001 she developed stangles and spent 8 weeks on box rest in isolation.
The start of 2001 she started losing her balance in the trailer. In the easter time of 2001 we went showjumping, she stumbles into the last fence of the jump off and came out lame.
We then got the vet out as she was orginally lame behind but then it turned out she was lame in both front feet on the circle, being worse on the hard surface. She was nerve blocked which isolated the lameness to her foot area. She was placed on bute, but showed no improvement. Therefore it was decided to refer her to the Animal Health Trust at Newmarket, here scientography (sp) was conducted which showed about 25% uptake in both front feet. Thus diagnosed with navicular (syndrome, i think). She was also diagnosed with degentive joint syndrome in her right hock.
They injected one front foot and her right hock with steriods and was sent home, to return to normal work.
Little improvement was shown, she had eggbar shoes and further bute, also we placed her on cortaflex. She progressivley got more lame.
It was therefore decided to claim loss of use for her, and turn her away for the winter. We got all the money from the insurance company and I got a new horse.
At the end of the winter we noticed she was 100% sound and so we gradually bought her back into work.
She is now 11 and has since remained 100% sound, never having a days lameness. We have started competing her again, and went to the Trailblazers SJ final last summer for the 85cm. We are now going to affliate her dressage.
We only compete her on a surface and plan aim to start elementary competitions at the end of the summer.

In your scenerio it all depends on your finances what you decide to do.
We did consider PTS route but she seemed happy enough so we went down the turn away route and see what happens as we only wanted to PTS if she was in pain.

 

[Doublethyme]

Sorry but I cannot agree with PTS such a young horse without EVEN trying turning him away for 12 months without shoes!!

A friend's horse was diagnosed with all sorts of awful things as a 4 year old - neurectomies were spoken off then - he had steroid injections and remedial shoeing and was sound for a few more years. He's 11 now and has bony changes to his coffin joints and navicular bone - remedial shoeing didn't help, steroid injections didn't help - the horse is now more sound in hand on all surfaces than he has EVER been in his whole life and is tentatively being bought back into work (long reining at the moment)

What changed??? His owner FINALLY took his shoes off and the horse is moving better than ever - yes he was a bit footy to start with, but no worse than with the remedial shoeing.

He may never come back to full work now, but if this course of action had been taken as a 4 year old, then who knows, years of remedial shoeing to "keep him sound and give a few more years" wraught all sorts of awful changes in his feet.

I would be severely questioning a diagnosis of proper full blown navicular disease at the age of 4!

 

[lizzie_liz]

Just to add to my post Honey has no back shoes and has normal front shoes. The removal of her hind shoes was really beneficial.

I agree with doublethyme over this

 

[ihatework]

Ask your vet about treating him with a drug called tildren, he will need to import this.

 

[jojoebony]

Shadow was barefoot and well balanced when he first started with the symptoms and became dramtically better when his shoes went on. I've always been a barefoot girl so am aware of the benefits with some horses so still hold out some hope. He was unbacked at the time this began so not brought on by work, although it did start mid summer when the ground was at it's hardest.
He also has changes within the coffin joint in his off fore, the prognosis/implications of this are unknown.
The Royal Dick diagnosed the navicular so am pretty sure I can be certain they 've given me the correct diagnosis (i've also had the xrays reviewed by two other veterinary practices).
I mentioned Tildren to my vet but he didn't seem too keen, have you used it, what was the outcome, I know different vets prefer certain treatments so would be interested in your experiences with it.
I've had my boy since he was 18 months old so have a huge emotional attachment, reading my post back the answer seems quite clear but I just can't let go yet, he is an amazing young horse both in looks and more importantly in temperament.
I can only afford 1 horse so a friend has given me her old boy on a 1/2 price loan and as Shadow is going out to grass I shoudl be able to manage, which keeps me ticking over on the horsey front.
I just hope he'll settle in the field and not get in too much trouble so we can give him a fair shot at getting better.

Jo

 

[ihatework]

My personal opinion (completely unqualified) is that it is worth giving tildren a go.
My horse was diagnosed back in November (he also has a complicated medical history) and given his lameness I wasn't holding out much hope. He too is a well bred animal that really isn't destined for a life in a field. I thought I'd be saying goodbye to him within weeks.

We treated with tildren and fitted eggbars with silicon gel inserts (equithane), this combined with shockwave therapy and synequin and he was sound 4 weeks later, he has now been in 3 months work and is doing well.

I don't think you have anything to loose by treating with tildren, it was not that expensive (around £200 inclusive of call out, drug, giving set, anti colic drug etc) and it has been trialled in horses with nav and spavin so you could potentially treat both conditions.