Navicular Syndrome experiences please

[RachelB]

My horse went back to the vet's today to try to find out what has been making her lame (basic story - intermittently lame for about a month, nerve blocks showed improvement at pastern level, 5 weeks' box rest and she was worse even with a foot block, 1 week later she's just as bad but went sound with a specific foot block vet did (not navicular) - I forget what vet said). Tomorrow she's having her navicular bursa blocked and as far as I can tell by the vet's tone over the phone, he thinks she has navicular in one or both front feet (she was lame on one first, is now showing significant lameness in the other especially when first one is blocked sound). She is naturally very very upright, has been shod slightly broken back (not farrier's fault, he can't see the bones) and is now moving better with being shod to support the heel but still very lame on the lunge. Reading through the navicular articles on H&H has made me think that actually she does probably have navicular as all the causes, signs and symptoms match up perfectly. She was also shod with eggbars when I bought her as apparently her feet were cut badly by a farrier and she was too sore to have normal shoes. I now wonder if old owner and she knew she was getting navicular, and shod her with eggbars all the time.
Anyway I am always one to try and find out about things so I understand more of what the vet is on about. So please can I have your navicular stories? Good and bad! Also, is there any sort of prospect for her if she is diagnosed? The H&H articles seem somewhat positive in that it can be "coped with", although I realise there is no treatment.
Any comments appreciated!

 

[hussar]

My then 14 yo Arab was diagnosed with navicular in 2004 after a successful career in endurance. He has upright pasterns and boxy feet, both of which contributed to the disease - plus many miles of concussion trotting on roads.

He was initially treated with Navilox for 6 months but when that showed no improvement he was taken on as part of a clinical trial of Tildren, then licensed only in France. It's an intravenous one-off and is supposed to slow or stop the deterioration of the bone. They claim 60% success rate but sadly we were in the 40%!

He then managed for 2 years on No Bute and remedial shoes with elevated heels. For the past month he's been on a sachet of bute every 2 days as it was obvious he was becoming uncomfortable. He's still rideable - and enjoys hacking out - but I couldn't ever jump or school him again.

The level of continued activity despite navicular seems to vary a great deal from horse to horse. I've been lucky in that he's still rideable but I know of others who are still competing in various disciplines.

Good luck with your mare.

ETS: There's a difference between disease and syndrome - if your mare has syndrome she might be only very mildly affected.

 

[Bossanova]

Oh no

Doesnt sound great.

You can manage the pain, it's expensive but certainly lots of people manage to carry on working their horses, especially on a good surface. It may be that she'll need to start having bute to manage the pain and thats up to you to choose if you want to go down that route. Jazzy had navicular and as he was only 7 we didnt want to go there but you know what he was like- a quiet life of gentle hacking and going in the school would not have suited!!

 

[mrussell]

OK - firstly - dont panic!!!

Secondly - my fella was diagnosed with Nav syndrome/caudal heel pain some 6 years ago.... and he is now 14 and mostly up to anything I feel like (he does have off days but he goes XC perfectly well if Im am choosy about the going).

You really need to ask your vet to be specific as to what he thinks is going on. Bearing in mind, all the diagnostic tests are only as good as the person looking at the results... even MRI. I spent £5k at Newmarket only to have a general diagnosis.

I tried every type of remedial shoe and the only shoe that works is Cytek...some people hate them, some people love them. I also use Premer Flex PLus supplement that had added HA and devils claw...and I swear by Magnetic fetlock bands. Honestly, I tried him without them and he is not nearly as sound.

You need to be sure that whether its syndrome - or disease. Syndrome is "pain in the area of"....disease is damage to the bone itself. MSM is great to help restore damage to he ligaments and tendons in the area. Beware of bute - it masks the symptoms but doesnt stop the damage.

Ask to see x-rays - and make notes of what you see and what your vet says... dont be passive. The first vet I used diagnosed disease and wanted my horse put down !! At best he said he might be paddock sound on bute.... he is now an "expert" at Newmarket himself -- he must have bought his way in is all I can say!

but hey - we can all be wrong.

Good luck and dont be too down hearted...

if you need advice, Ill do my best - just PM !!

 

[RachelB]

*touches wood lots before saying anything*
From what I've read it sounds like she may have mild navicular. hussar - what is the difference between disease and syndrome? Navicular is one of the ailments I haven't really come across before. Vet doesn't want to say for certain what she has (at all, wouldn't give a prediction even though I pushed) until we see the results of her navicular bursa block tomorrow. He said he will then remove her shoes and x-ray everything in the foot so he can to get a good picture. Hopefully she won't have to go for scintigraphy!
I'm just hoping really that she can have a good life mooching about at least hacking and some dressage with me, even better if we can jump on a surface. My aim was always really to do some 2'-2'3" ODEs with her. If she can hack and dressage I may have to loan her out, but if she's knackered I'll retire her and she can while away her days in the field. Lucky for me she is made for retirement! Although she loves doing things and pleasing people.
I did think of Jazz immediately when the vet mentioned navicular, but I assumed that 1) he wasn't the type of horse to retire, and 2) T runs her yard as a business and can't afford to be sentimental and hold on to something like that.
I didn't think she was too pleased when I said I'd left her trailer at the vet's and can I return it tomorrow

it is clamped and locked up, promise!

 

[RachelB]

Thanks for that, that was very interesting. Maiden is my perfect horse so I'm not worried about spending all I have on her - I've only had her 10 months and she's already paid for herself 10 times over. I don't want to ask my vet to explain everything until tomorrow, but I will definately grill him once he knows what's going on. Although he is very boring to listen to (hence why I can't remember what block he said he did today!)!! I certainly won't have her PTS unless she is in pain and nothing can be done, as she has always been a happy horse and would love retirement. But going XC on good ground would be fantastic! Will see what vet says but I can see Cortaflex and magnetic boots coming on... we will also have more turnout soon which sounds as though it may help (from H&H articles).
Should know more tomorrow after x-rays but sounds like *permanently attaches self to wooden desk* she has syndrome as it is mild - started off as heat and pain in the heel area, one day she was totally hopping (could barely move) and for a month after it was intermittent but with almost constant heel heat.
Gosh, I have so much running around in my head. I just hope that it is a mild case (if it is at all) and I can help her.
Can't wait to find out now either way, and get it over with!
Thanks!

 

[seabiscuit]

Ben and Jerrys on here has successfully treated her horses Navicular with Tildren- he is apparently very sound and happy now and doing completly normal work now I believe.
Definately look into using some Tildren.... it only costs £150 apparently but as someone else said there is a 60% chance that it will work! And if it does work, then your high and dry!

 

[lizzie_liz]

My mare was diagnosed with navicular in 2002 at the age of 6. She was lame on a circle on a surface and hard ground. Nerve blocks and x rays were done, she was then referred to Newmarket where she had scientigraphy (sp) which showed about 20% uptake in both front feet in the navicular region. Bute had proved unsuccessful, she was also had egg bar shoes which also made little difference. At newmarket she was injected with steriods. By the end of the summer sh ewas getting worse so we claimed LOU and turned her away over the winter. I then got a new horse with insurance money as i was only about 15 at the time and wanted to get out and compete.
After the winter she came sound and we gradually increased her workload. She went on blue chip dynamic and had her back shoes removed.
She has been sound ever since, we took her to Trailblazer SJ finals (85cm) last year and got into jump off on both days. We are about to affliate her dressage.
She has not had one days lameness since she first came sound after the winter. We are going to take her xc in the summer if ground is ok!
Every competition is a bonus but it still doesn't stop me getting competitive!
Good Luck with yours

 

[hussar]

[quote hussar - what is the difference between disease and syndrome?

[/ QUOTE ]

As mrussell said, syndrome is pain around the navicular area; and disease is lesions in the navicular bone itself - you'd see them on an Xray as lollipop-shaped dark areas. I guess what they mean by 'syndrome' is that it might have another cause unrelated to the navicular bone.

Good luck today. Let us know what happens.

 

[brightmount]

I have a navicular success story, and the key to it was Barefoot Podiatry, the KC LaPierre trim practised by Equine Podiatrists:

http://www.epauk.org/

I have replied to people on this forum before, so forgive me for copying and pasting the text I have on my computer, but I'm meant to be working today, and it's a long story!

I'll tell you about my horse. She was a 9 y.o. at the time she went lame, and her breed is ISH. Her lameness was quite acute to begin with, but subsided with a few weeks box rest and coming back into work slowly, however it kept re-occurring from May to September. My vet was treating her fetlock, and he did x-rays and ultrasound and seemed to think there was some tendon injury, but I couldn't see anything on the ultrasound. So he gave her 2 injections of hyonate, but by September I wanted a second opinion as I wasn't convinced of the diagnosis and treatment.

I got another vet out, who put a nerve block right at the bottom, and she came sound so we knew it was in the heel. He mentioned the DDFT, which generally has quite a poor prognosis. So she went back on box rest with hand walking out to graze, and as we were going into winter I decided to keep this up for the whole winter to give her a chance to heal.

By January, she took a sudden turn for the worse after the farrier put natural balance shoes on her without asking me. She was on full livery at that time so I didn't have to attend for the farrier, and the yard had changed hands so it was a different farrier who only did NB. She went immediately crippled so we called him back and he refitted the shoe, but no change. She went on like this for a few weeks, hardly able to put one foot in front of the other, then I asked the vet if I could be referred for an MRI scan to decide if she had a future as I couldn't bear to see her suffer any more. In my head I had resigned myself to having her PTS and had even planned what to do with the corpse, and to donate her leg for dissection etc.

The MRI was done on insurance, otherwise we couldn't have afforded to spend £1000 on a condemned horse.

While I was waiting for the results I bumped into an Equine Podiatrist who visits our yard. He thought barefoot might help, although he thought her immediate lameness was due to collateral ligament damage, which would resolve itself in 4 weeks.

When the scans came back, she did indeed have collateral ligament damage. She also had arthritic and navicular issues. I didn't think she would get back on the lorry having had her front shoes off for the scan, but strangely she was more comfortable already with them off. A few weeks later, the backs came off and she had her first barefoot trim.

We had to then work on conditioning, which was basically hand walking with sole mates pads, which initially I taped to the soles, and then I got some Old Mac boots to put them in which was easier. She found immediate relief in pads and our walks out to graze became more pleasurable.

From there she went from strength to strength. She was turned out in March, and the podiatrist said he no longer considered her a remedial case, just a normal barefoot transition. I had almost sold her saddle, but he suggested we start riding her again for the good it would do her mentally.

So initially she was just ridden in walk, then trot, then canter and now she is jumping again, and coming away in the ribbons.

We haven't used her boots over the autumn and winter as the ground is soft, but I expect we will use them again for rough terrain in the summer.

She has also shown improvement on Pernamax Equine, and Corta-Flx which is the US cheaper version of Cortaflex, available from Equiteric on eBay.

If you need any more info or would like to see her scans, PM me.

 

[ihatework]

My horse went lame (again) after coming back from a different injury and having 9 months field rest - this was back in october. By December we had confirmed navicular/navicular syndrome. We went through what sounds liek a similar series of nerve blocks as you, horse presented lame NF, coffin block on that leg bought him level, nav bursa block to NF made him lame on OF, nav block to OF brought him completely sound with a longer stride legth than seen during the coffin blocks.
Full set of xrays were done, definite changes on the lower surface of NF nav bone but not apparent on OF.

By this time the horse was really very lame.

Discussed in length with the vet, with just xrays the diagnosis and prognosis is always going to be sketchy, better to do an MRI although even this won't necessarily change things. I was insured but insurance company would only cover half an MRI so I was looking at finding an additional £600 myself if I wanted this done, due to the horses other medical issues I decided not to waste the money.

As insurance would cover medicating we decided to throw everything at him in a last ditch attemp really, both the vet and I thought we would be putting him to sleep in the new year.

He had the following:
Tildren - a drug we imported from France, given once, IV over about 30 minutes
Shockwave therapy, 4 sessions each given 10 days apart
Remedial shoeing - we have opted for egg bars filled with equithane gel as a starting point
Synequin - a high grade joint supplement

4 months on and he is sound on a 10m circle on concrete, back in work and has first competition lined up for the end of this month. He obviously isn't 'cured' and I will have to be very careful in his management, no fast work on hard ground, schooling on a surface. I am hoping he may be able to do a bit of jumping but again will need to be very mindful of ground conditions.

I hope that is of some help and good luck with your horse.

 

[brightmount]

B&J I take it you're covered by NFU. They only pay for half an MRI scan, in the words of the sales guy "because we don't want you wasting all your cover on MRI scans".

Petplan cover the whole of the cost of an MRI scan provided you have enough cover left for whatever injury/condition you are claiming for. That's why I was able to have an MRI scan, even though I expected to be putting the horse to sleep.

If I hadn't been able to have the scan - and I don't think paying half would even have been an option on the balance of probabilities at the time - then neddy would have been PTS. The results of the MRI made it worth giving her a chance ... this is her second summer since, and when I see her munching grass in the sun I think how easily she might have missed it.

 

[ihatework]

Yes, I was with NFU ... and to be honest not really fussed ... I would have found the £600 if I had needed to but it is debateable if it would have told us much more than what treatments weren't worth trying (which as NFU were footing the bill for eveything else didn't bother me)
I would still go back to NFU with my next horse, I was with PetPlan before, the premiums were higher, exclusions were ridiculous and they didn't cover transportation or hospitalisation fees unlike NFU. Swings and roundabouts really.

The ironic thing is I reckon his years worth of traetment would be about 3K, so theoretically plenty left in the pot for an MRI.

 

[Beauts]

my horse has navicular disease in both front feet. she was very lame, even on the beach. my vet advised to use tildren(i think its called trilden, it comes from france and it is given by IV drip) as mentioned above, she had two courses of it and it has worked a treat, she now has heels on her front feet to help with the pressure and thats it. my horse is also sound on a 10m circle on concrete. im not sure whether this has been mentioned above, but tildren (if its the same treatment that im thinking of) doesnt get rid of navicular disease i.e doesnt cure it, it only stops it from progressing, so it depends on your situation as to whether you should use it, but definitly talk to your vet about it because its a new product and not many people know about it.