Navicular syndrome

[Chloewoods521]

Does anyone with horses suffering with navicular syndrome have any experience with tildren/ osphos treatment as I’m currently considering it for my mare or any other recommendations ?? Also if you’ve used any supplements that have proven useful whether with pain or the condition itself could you please comment. I’ve seen reviews for “Hilton Herbs NavX Gold” being used in cases like these which I’m planning on trying , if anyone has used it before have you found it worked? Thanks

 

[Red-1]

Yes, a Police Horse I worked with had Tildren for navic. The (very experienced) vet administered it at half the rate (so timewise it took double the time) that it "should" be given as it has a risk of colic that is reduced if it is given slowly. The horse had 3 treatments I think, and worked fully for 2 or 3 more years or so, before being happily retired to a lighter workload.

It was not a cure, but the horse was happy and did not need any other drugs once it had worked.

 

[ycbm]

Has your horse got shoes on? The most effective treatment by far is to take the shoes off and do a barefoot rehab.

 

[Pinkvboots]

One of mine has slight navicular went lame last March he had osphos and steroid put into the bursa as that was also inflamed, he didn't go sound straight away so they wanted to mri but I didn't have a lot of insurance money left so I thought I would give him a bit longer, so I took his shoes off and he was basically living out after about 2 months he looked sound, so I just started doing light walking and slowly increased.

His still barefoot and copes fine and has not shown any further problems, I only walk on hard ground and he will never jump again, my vets wanted him in remedial shoes but I didn't want to go down that route after much research and advice on here I took his shoes off, and I truly believe it was the best thing I did for him.

 

[Chloewoods521]

yes She still has shoes & I was told to get egg bar shoes for her while she’s on box rest which I had concerns about as I’ve heard about soles collapsing with the pressure but thankfully my farrier is just adding a plate to the frog area to support her heel.. i religiously apply copper sulphate to strengthen her feet but would be afraid she wouldn’t be able for barefoot. However if the medicinal routes and corrective farriery fail I am 100% open to giving it a go!

 

[Gloi]

yes She still has shoes & I was told to get egg bar shoes for her while she’s on box rest which I had concerns about as I’ve heard about soles collapsing with the pressure but thankfully my farrier is just adding a plate to the frog area to support her heel.. i religiously apply copper sulphate to strengthen her feet but would be afraid she wouldn’t be able for barefoot. However if the medicinal routes and corrective farriery fail I am 100% open to giving it a go!

The feet need to be strengthened from the inside with diet rather than applying things to the outside. You will save a lot of time and money reading up and doing a barefoot rehab rather than waiting until the corrective farriery and box rest fails to do it.
Have a serious read of the info on this website http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/

 

[Chloewoods521]

Did any of yous give supplements? This is the supplement I’m going to try out.. and opinions ?

 

[Leo Walker]

Have a look at the Rockley blog. The chances of your horse coming and staying sound with remedial shoes are very small. If you barefoot rehab the chances are much, much higher.

 

[Gloi]

Did any of yous give supplements? This is the supplement I’m going to try out.. and opinions ?

This is good
https://progressive-earth.com/produ...formula-of-our-acclaimed-pro-hoof-supplement/

 

[Leo Walker]

Did any of yous give supplements? This is the supplement I’m going to try out.. and opinions ?

It cant hurt, but I really wouldnt waste my money. Herbal supplements can be really useful in some circumstances, I dont think this is one. Blood flow isnt really the issue here, its the damage inside the foot.

I'd look at her diet, get her on low sugar, high fibre and oil if needed and add a balancer from Forage Plus or Progressive Earth. Get her hooves in the best condition they can be.

 

[Casey76]

Navicular syndrome is nearly always caused by low heels and long toes with poor frogs and no digitial cushions.

None of which can be treated with shoes. Bar shoes significantly decrease correct loading of the foot, and are completely counter productive to the resolution of navicular syndrome.

 

[tallyho!]

Save time, don’t put your horse through more remedial shoes... I did that and almost had my horse pts until I came on here asking what to do. Took his shoes off... he was turned out all winter and by autumn was jumping again barefoot. Shoes, Tildren, injections and paints do nothing for navicular... navicular is a misnomer... it’s pain due to constricted heels... basically the heels are so pinched there’s no room for the inner tendons and bones to even fit. It’s horribly painful and the only way to treat is to give the hoof room.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have never fed any supplement to mine for navicular, he gets grass chaff micronised linseed and salt and occasionally magnesium oxcide although he has only slight navicular, it's difficult to comment as every vet probably has a different perception of what is low grade navicular and what is not, my vet explained it very well and showed me the x rays so I have a good idea of the degree of change, he has one foot is worse than the other, and that foot is much more upright and smaller compared to the other but since being barefoot his foot has improved they are not a pair but it's looking better.

 

[Puddleduck]

I did 2 rounds of Osphos with my navicular horse, discontinued because it didn’t seem to be helping massively
Took shoes off 6 weeks after diagnosis and haven’t looked back. It’s been 2 years now and horse is sound and moves beautifully.

There are now opinions that Osphos & Tildren are not the wonder drugs that was once thought
https://www.paulickreport.com/horse...price-pay-bisphosphonate-use-delayed-healing/

 

[Gloi]

There are now opinions that Osphos & Tildren are not the wonder drugs that was once thought
https://www.paulickreport.com/horse...price-pay-bisphosphonate-use-delayed-healing/

That's horrific. Fortunately I've never needed it but I have friend's with horses on it and my sister was taking a bisphosphonate for some time.

 

[Chloewoods521]

I reached out to Hilton herbs regarding navX gold and they sent me on this pdf in how it is intended to help with navicular so I’m willing to give it a shot.. also these are the shoes my farrier provided not egg bar as neither of us were happy to risk too much pressure on her feet which often causes soles to collapse

 

[Chloewoods521]

Also has anyone any experience with CBD oils? I’ve heard of a few using it to help navicular

 

[tallyho!]

All thats needed is space and restored function in the navicular area. No herbs or oil will help if the circulation is not reaching the heel bulbs and palmar digital cushion due to constriction in the area. You're wasting your money.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I wouldn't bother with the supplement and I wouldn't be happy with those shoes either, all those shoes will do is stop the back of the hoof from functioning properly as it's being covered, in my experience they work for a while then the horse ends up lame again hence why I didn't want remedial shoes.

I am no barefoot warrior my other horse has shoes but in your situation I would want the shoes off.

 

[ester]

I'd be giving the hilton herbs thing a hard pass, and those shoes- they are only going to lead to further reduction in the supportive structures, I feel quite sad looking at the visible bit of frog and you will likely get frog destruction under the bar however hard you try to clean under it.

 

[Casey76]

Also has anyone any experience with CBD oils? I’ve heard of a few using it to help navicular

There are no legal cannabinoids (natural or synthetic) approved for horses in the UK.

 

[Red-1]

If your farrier is supportive, I too would take the shoes off now. Your stable and turnout will be soft enough to be comfortable. I would then start in-hand walking starting with what the horse is comfortable with and building up.

You will be surprised at how quickly the feet will change shape and the heel will develop. To develop, the hrse needs to use the heel, so it must be comfortable meaning no thrush, Cleantrax will clear that up, then keep it scrupulously clean. If the feet are awful then boots can help initially to get the horse moving.

It needs correct nutrition as well, fibre based feed, I also use Progressive Earth Pro-Feet.

I say "If your farrier is supportive" as IME, if they are not, you will have an awful time!

I have found that surgical shoeing is a short term fix that ultimately makes it worse. It is no substitute for allowing the horse to grow its own support, but this is no easy or cheap thing, as to do it right it means tailoring the horse's work to what he is capable of as well as good hoof maintenance, feeding, cleanliness etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'd be giving the hilton herbs thing a hard pass, and those shoes- they are only going to lead to further reduction in the supportive structures, I feel quite sad looking at the visible bit of frog and you will likely get frog destruction under the bar however hard you try to clean under it.

This. I was recently advised by my vet to fit just such shoes, along with pads, for my mare. She had blocked lame in the heel area of all 4 feet subsequent to an earlier period of horrendous foot balance (whilst not in my care).

Instead, I have moved from a decent farrier to an excellent podiatrist. The shoes were pulled, and whilst she would indeed have been 'crippled' as my vet advised if I had simply chucked her out in the field without them, we have successfully got through that stage and she's already sounder than she was in shoes. This is only about 7 weeks in to her barefoot rehab. Her feet are barely recognisable from when she had shoes on. It will take a while longer for the remaining internal soft tissue damage to fully settle down, but she should come good.

To her credit, my vet is intrigued with how she's progressing and is being very supportive.

All day turnout in hoof boots during transition. She was box rested for a week on a deep shavings bed post shoe removal.



First day turned out. Yippee!

 

[ester]

I agree they often make things seem better short term, usually then the horse gets sore again, often worse than before. For most horses barefoot is their best long term option though it doesn't resolve everything.

OP this is what the back of my horse's hoof looked like after 2 cycles in bar shoes, superficially he had a lot more heel when we finished but the improvement was all superficial. And yes this hoof was picked out twice daily and soaked regularly

and I don't have a bad farrier, he now trims him for me instead.

 

[Gloi]

I agree they often make things seem better short term, usually then the horse gets sore again, often worse than before. For most horses barefoot is their best long term option though it doesn't resolve everything.

OP this is what the back of my horse's hoof looked like after 2 cycles in bar shoes, superficially he had a lot more heel when we finished but the improvement was all superficial. And yes this hoof was picked out twice daily and soaked regularly
and I don't have a bad farrier, he now trims him for me instead.

Have you got current pictures of his hoof to demonstrate the difference taking the shoes off can make?

 

[ester]

haha, I have lots of photos, none current and annoyingly none when they were at their best doing as many miles as we could muster. He also didn't have a navicular diagnosis or an MRI but suspicions of soft tissue (collateral ligament at least) problems.

 

[Gloi]

haha, I have lots of photos, none current and annoyingly none when they were at their best doing as many miles as we could muster. He also didn't have a navicular diagnosis or an MRI but suspicions of soft tissue (collateral ligament at least) problems.

shame

 

[ycbm]

Have you got current pictures of his hoof to demonstrate the difference taking the shoes off can make?

Years and years of them on rockleyfarm.blogspot.com

 

[ester]

That didn't mean I don't have any suitable!

same hoof, actually not the lame one but not much to choose between them lack of heel wise at 16 week trim in the july

this is a good one of the new angle coming down and the toe shortening august, other side looked the same.

september

2 years later- have always had to be sulci careful in front.

also about 2 years later, where the angle ended up

and to go back in time a bit this is what we started with when he was lame november 2011

after 2 cycles of bar shoeing (still lame, was better initially post steroid but got worse again).

This pony has pretty flat soles, suspect restricted to his pedal bone positioning, they were flexible but thick (which rather surprised the vet when he flinted himself going over plough once) He was 19 having spent a life in shoes when he went lame, within 6 months we were out competing dressage, and later covered miles and carried on hunting until he was 23/24. He retired this summer at 25 due to issues behind not in front.
He was never truely rock crunching but functional and rarely needed booting, his heels always wanted to stay forwards of perfect but he didn't like us trying to adjust them so we didn't. He was never self trimming because he had wonky knees but he grew masses of hoof when in full work, I was trimming every 2-3 weeks, no in the field he goes 6 weeks easily as not doing any mileage.
Having spent time on this forum I always said if he had navicular I would take his shoes off. As it was I didn't have the courage of my conviction as that wasn't really his diagnosis either. However I knew I would only put bar shoes on for so long, both the farrier and vet were much happier with his exterior hoof balance at the end of the 12 weeks but he clearly wasn't really any better so I called time on that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well done for posting actual hoof pics, ester, rather than pics of hoof boots .

Memo to self. Take some pics of horse's feet without her boots on.