Navicular - when is it time to call time?

[Minkymonk]

Hi, our mare was diagnosed with chronic navicular 9 months ago with deep erosion of the flexor surface of the navicular bone, DDFT adhesion and fibrillation, loss of fluid from the navicular bursa. We have had her on rest, had steroid injections which made no difference and tried stem cell therapy which sadly hasn’t helped ( we had repeat MRI done recently and it is now in her other foot). We have had her on Bute, remedial shoes (pads, gel and raised heels) and she hacks occasionally which she loves. She was a competition horse. Sadly Surgery is not an option for her.

She is now lame again (2-3/10 on the straight) and is not keen when her tack comes out which is so unlike her. She is such a lovely happy mare but I’m wondering if she’s had enough and hate to see her look uncomfortable. Will increase her Bute dose for now but know it isn’t a long term solution. Farrier has said she’d be in more pain if she went barefoot so I don’t know what else to do. She is not happy living out so I can’t turn her away. She has daily turnout or walking exercise in poor weather.

I’d do anything to change things for her if I could. she is my daughters horse and we’ve only had her a year and we are devastated that previous owners would have known but that’s another story. Now toying with the heartbreaking thought of maybe it is time to let her go. Any advice appreciated, thank you .

 

[Equi]

Many horses have been rehabbed with navicular by going barefoot, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of knowledge/time/correct set up. It’s not a simple pull the shoes off scenario.

But to the mare, it doesn’t sound like she will have a happy or comfortable retirement if she’s not keen to go out so doing the only thing you can by relieving her of suffering is always admirable.

 

[Carrottom]

Sadly, it does sound that the time is now. You have tried to help her, but it doesn't seem to have worked. It is a hard decision to make, but is a fair one.

 

[Boulty]

I know it’s hard to go against your farrier but as what you have tried so far has not brought your horse to soundness IMO barefoot rehab (not just taking shoes off, it’s rather more complicated than that and is basically changing the way the horse moves and lands and restoring function) is the only thing likely to improve soundness and keep the horse sound long term.

If horse is very sore without shoes and you don’t have good support where you are then sending away to somewhere specialising in this type of rehab if funds allow. (Alternatively looking for a farrier knowledgeable about and supportive of barefoot or a barefoot trimmer and using hoof boots and pads as part of transition, Fromthegroundup rehab may also be worth reaching out to although website link not working atm so unsure if still offering services atm)

If open to sending away the person I’d most recommend is Nic Barker at Rockley Farm as she has rehabbed a large number of horses with these types of issue (a lot of whom vets & farriers had said “can’t go barefoot”) with a very good success rate returning to previous level of work. She did stop offering this service for a while but I believe she has started to take the odd few on a smaller scale. I believe several other track systems also offer this service but I can’t comment on their success rates due to lack of personal experience (would expect to still be reasonably good)

If you are unable to pursue this as an option (I’ll admit it wasn’t a “cheap” option 10 years ago when I sent mine to Rockley and I still couldn’t have done it without insurance footing some of the bill so I totally get that it’s not a possible option for a lot of people but it really and honestly was the best money I’ve ever spent and it bought me years of soundness with that horse that I’d never have had otherwise) then yes PTS may be kinder than carrying on as currently.

 

[Boulty]

PS mine was VERY sore without shoes initially (which shouldn’t be normal but sadly is for many horses) and actually found being shod painful due to how thin his soles were (he used to regularly try to maim / injure the farrier when he was nailing on… said farrier did admit he’d be better off barefoot but had no idea where to start with regards to making that transition comfortable for him) and I absolutely could not have rehabbed him myself but he became a lot more comfortable very quickly with access to appropriate surfaces.

 

[Highmileagecob]

If you want to give one last chance, then pull the shoes, change your farrier, and invest in some good boots and pads aimed at rehab. Read all you can about rehab, and search out a good farrier or trimmer who is used to dealing with navicular support. Pete Ramey's Hoof Rehab pages are a good starting place, and put a shout out for recommendations for a farrier/trimmer. Good luck hope there's a happy ending.

 

[cauda equina]

I had a horse pts due to navicular (among other things - he retired due to navicular then I couldn't manage his weight without huge restrictions which I felt were unreasonable for a retired horse)
That was before I knew about barefoot rehab. He had other interventions (steroid injections, remedial shoeing) which didn't help.
I so wish I had heard of, and tried, barefoot rehab; at least then I would have known I'd done all I could
Good luck with yours xx

 

[Red-1]

I had a work horse respond well to Tildren, but I believe there is an even more effective treatment out now.

I would also try a barefoot rehab. I would pad and boot to walk from the deeply bedded stable to a deep arena, where the horse would spend the day, initially. Once 4 weeks or so of that have taken place, I would look to start more walking either with or without boots, on a harder surface. I would make sure there is NO thrush.

The diet would be stripped back to hay and chop, speedybeet and some top hoof supplement. I use Pro Hoof Platinum. I'd also use some limestone flour and protein powder to encourage hoof growth.

If the horse could not stand the above regime, I'd decide that I'd done my best and probably PTS.

I hope you find your solution.

ETA - I just remembered a different work horse who also had navic, and she came sound after a barefoot rehab and was back out hacking and showing, sound as a pound, with no shoes. Took a couple of years tho.

 

[paddy555]

Farrier has said she’d be in more pain if she went barefoot so I don’t know what else to do.

but did he say she would be in more pain with padded boots?

I think most come to barefoot rehab as a last resort. Usually when the insurance has run out.

I would remove the shoes but make sure you have boots ready to stop her being sore. If you just remove the shoes she will be in pain, that is pretty easy to predict.

Then I would boot and pad for as long as necessary (a pretty long time) for her comfort. You may have to boot in the stable to start with, you may have to boot 24/7 it is a case of playing it by ear as to how comfortable she is.

Dealing with thrush is vital. If you remove the shoes on an otherwise sound horse that has thrush it will be sore. Deal with the thrush (in both the central sulchus and the co lateral grooves) before the shoes come off.

a good supplement and protein (I use pea protein and micro linseed) improves hoof growth.

Finally as I would guess neither your vet nor your farrier has suggested the barefoot route then find a trimmer or farrier with experience in this area to trim your horse. Correct trimming can make or break a horse especially in this situation.

 

[maya2008]

To an extent it would depend for me on the age of the horse. That said, I did Tildren (no change) and steroids (came sound) but then retired fully. Horse was already barefoot and hadn’t worn shoes for 20 years. She died many years later from arthritis impacting her spine. If money isn’t an issue, with an older horse I would try the equivalent of Tildren. With a younger one I might try to barefoot rehab somewhere like Rockley.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would try a barefoot rehab sometimes when the remedial shoes fail it's the only option really, thing is with it being quite severe it's not going to be quick so you will need to invest in boots and pads initially.

 

[Zoeypxo]

How old is she and what is it you are aiming to do with her?

In your position i would try a solid 12 month barefoot rehab, boots and thick pads.
She will be sore when you take them off initially. Her diet will need tweaking and thrush treated very strictly.

It is possible, many of us on here have done it, it is hard work and takes a long time. Sometimes up to 2 years, especially if the horse has progressed quite far and is poorly loading the hoof.

definitely reccomend rockley farm if they are taking any on at the moment. If not the owner has a few books that you can buy online, very useful and has lots of case studies/examples.

Do you have any pictures of her hooves currently?

 

[Highmileagecob]

Unfortunately, if the remedial shoes have raised heels, then these are making the situation worse by continually loading the toe. Yes, she will be very sore when these come off, and you will need to be very careful around possible tendon injuries, but the last chance now is to allow her to regrow and remodel the hoof both inside and out. Keep us posted, we will all hold your hand.

 

[Marigold4]

I have a broodmare aged 13 recently diagnosed with navicular. She has been barefoot and expertly trimmed all her life!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have a broodmare aged 13 recently diagnosed with navicular. She has been barefoot and expertly trimmed all her life!

Louis was diagnosed at 14 so shoes came off barefoot since diagnosis he is still ridden his 19 now and his been fine.

 

[Spanish Dressage]

You have nothing to lose trying barefoot - I tried everything with a navicular case - he looked so unhappy in remedial shoes that I decided it was time to try no shoes. It takes a lot of time and effort but it paid off and he came sound enough to be a hack. I learnt a lot from him and do think it is possible to do for many horses. Am now trying it with my tb.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I have a broodmare aged 13 recently diagnosed with navicular. She has been barefoot and expertly trimmed all her life!

My cob was heading that way - never shod and farrier trimmed. After watching him toe weighting, and being told by the farrier that his conformation made him walk like that, I switched to a barefoot trimmer who immediately saw his heels were way too high and the frogs were half way up his heels. It took two years of patient trimming, boots and pads for the hooves to grow back normally. I am not anti farrier, but I am convinced that some of them do not actually look at the foot they are working with.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I am not anti farrier, but I am convinced that some of them do not actually look at the foot they are working with.

Agree with this, I thought my mare was being 'expertly shod' as the farrier was a Team GB farrier. She was being shod terribly and looking back at photos, he was trimming her terribly when she was barefoot.

I've now switched to another farrier, who couldn't believe the height of her heels and what a shamble they were for solid feet. He took her shoes off and is now gradually changing the shape of her feet. I really do believe her 'very mild navicular' diagnosis on MRI this summer was bought on by that farrier doing a poor job for the last 3 years.

We all put so much trust in these professionals.. it was only thanks to the forum I realised how badly she was being shod.

I agree with others, OP I'd change farrier and go barefoot. Boots and pads will help. Sounds like you have nothing to loose. My mare was landing toe first, she started landing 'flat' after having 2 weeks of the shoes being off.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

There is a lot more research on it now than when I had one with Navicular (and I am better educated now) but I had mine PTS when I had tried injections and shockwave therapy and at one point I was paying the vet farrier £180 per shoe for remedial farriery of various types alone with x-rays of the feet whilst shoeing - nothing made much difference and whilst the horse was 'only' ever 2-3/10ths lame I had to consider what future I could offer him, and the fact of the matter was it was looking like in the summer he would be in pain on rutted and uneven ground, and in the winter he would be in pain in any sort of foot sucking mud - so I made the decision to PTS.

Looking back I wish I had tried barefoot rehab, but as he was a 6yo (and had low grade wobblers which is usually degenerative) I had potentially 20+ years of retirement to consider and at 17yo and working full time alongside full time college to fund a horse, I also didn't have much prospect of being able to fund that for a 17.3hh, poor doer warmblood that needed upkeep.

 

[Orangehorse]

If there is too much internal damage, then by trying barefoot you are just prolonging the agony.

However, the way to try is, as others have said, get hoof boots with a nice pad inside, or as I started out, taped thick pads to the feet and walked in hand in the yard for 10 minutes or so at a time 2-3 times a day. The pads not only protect the soles of the feet, but also give the right amount of cushioning effect which gives the correct stimulation to the foot to get stronger.

You would need to talk to a good barefoot trimmer who has a lot of experience of rehab. I know one horse that had maxed out his insurance with remedial farriery and was looking at PTS, but was sent away and was exercised in hoof boots for several weeks and came back able to be ridden and went on for another 10 years of endurance riding (that was a long story cut short).

But it maybe that there is too much going on, and it is a long road to travel.

 

[Marigold4]

My cob was heading that way - never shod and farrier trimmed. After watching him toe weighting, and being told by the farrier that his conformation made him walk like that, I switched to a barefoot trimmer who immediately saw his heels were way too high and the frogs were half way up his heels. It took two years of patient trimming, boots and pads for the hooves to grow back normally. I am not anti farrier, but I am convinced that some of them do not actually look at the foot they are working with.

Mine has had an excellent barefoot trimmer for years though!

 

[SEL]

Mine has had an excellent barefoot trimmer for years though!

Mine did too - never shod. Injury we suspect.

 

[Marigold4]

Mine did too - never shod. Injury we suspect.

Did you ever find out what the injury was?