Navicular

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DGIN

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First of all I just want to say 'Hi' to everyone on here as i'm new to this!!

I have an Irish TB who has just been diagnosed with Navicular. I have looked on many different websites to try and understand it a bit more but have got myself more confused really!

I think if I could hear from people who have been in this situation before, how they dealt with it (treatment etc) and what the outcome was I would be able to understand it a bit better :)

Thanks
 
Hi, my horse has navicular and has for many years. He has been kept sound by initially rebalancing his feet with heel wedges as they were very broken back and then regular (4-5 weekly) shoeing with natural balance shoes and now center fit. He has good and bad days but it doesn't help that he is quite a big chap and rather heavy in the chest/shoulder region so most of his weight is in front. Different things work for different horses so do what you find works- try to keep him out as much as possible to keep the circulation going and try to work more in straight lines than circles if you can, this has helped my boy. Good luck and keep researching!
 
At the moment he has heart bar shoes on and gel pads and seems to be sound in walk (ever so slightly lame in trot). The vet has said that he is only allowed out in a restricted paddock for 1 hour a day which isnt working out, he keeps escaping through the electric fence and the rest of the day he is box walking as he is kept in on his own. I made the decision last week to put him back in his bigger field (still only about 1/2 acre or so) with his friends and he has chilled out as i leave him out all day. I know the vet did not want him out but i didnt think he was doing much good box walking and escaping from other fields! He is on 1 bute a day now and allowed to be ridden on a flat surfact in a straight ish line for up to 1/2 hour a day and seems to be doing well. I hope iv made the right decision about turning him out.
 
Ask your vet if he's meant to be on box rest due to the risk of pulling the bar shoes off? Is he on bar shoes to allow the heel to flex? Maybe it would be worth contacting an AWCF farrier with experience in remedial shoeing to discuss the foot confirmation? I know that all the issues may be different but my horse had very low heels and hsi toes looked long so to counteract the appalling foot balance we hiked up the heels to make the balance better and decrease the pressure from the DDFT on the navicular bone. This in turn made his heels grow in a better shape and eventually he didn't need the wedges any more. He has great looking feet from the outside now but his heel bulbs are still contracted and his frogs are a bit rubbish. Not much more we can do at this stage in his life though so we just take each day as it comes!
 
I really recommend googling barefoot and navicular - more and more people are going the barefoot route with their navic horses and finding that with a proper rehab program their once lame and written off horses come 100% sound, and stay sound as long as the shoes are kept off. Remedial shoeing can relieve the pain to a greater or lesser degree but it's not a cure whereas the barefoot route results speak for themselves. This is a great article to read http://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.htm It's just common sense really. You might also look at http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/Rockley_Farm/Research.html where they have been rehabbing navicular cases for a while and are currently undertaking research with Liverpool Vet School. There are loads of photos and videos of the rehab cases on the blog http://www.rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/

I had a navicular diagnosed horse a few years ago, degeneration of the bone on x-rays. I was given two choices de-nerve - which is don't agree with - or PTS. I wish I knew then what I know now - that navicular is completely curable (though many are still sceptical but it took years before accepted opinion on pin firing changed from being THE treatment for tendon injury to being recognised as pointless). Now I would have taken his shoes off, done the rehab and had many more happy years with him.
 
My yard owners horse has navicular and she gives him Navilox from the vets, he has been sound since being on this, with no special shoeing,
 
It all depends whether your horse has true navicular or 'navicular syndrome'. True navicular tends to occur in older horses or heavier breeds. Young TBs don't tend to suffer from true navicular although this doesn't mean it isn't possible and I know some cases where it has happened. Navicular syndrome is used to cover a large number of injuries including soft tissue damage within the foot (collateral ligaments, DDFTs, etc). Soft tissue damage needs to be treated very differently to navicular. With both conditions good shoeing is key, however with soft tissue damage rest is also important. My only advise would be to make certain you know which you are dealing with.

Edited - just remembered I'm on Mum's computer so this is her account, oops! (Normally Marchtime)
 
Many thanks for all the replies; he is 17 now so i’m guessing it is true Navicular? He seems to be doing well anyway with the heart bars on. He is also on a strict diet to take some weight off his feet (think he has fallen out with me because of this!!)

The vet said that she didn’t want him out in a big field as she didn’t want him charging about, he has got over reach boots on and his heart bars don’t really hang too much from the back of his hoof so i’m hoping he won’t pull it off. The ground isn’t boggy anymore so i’m hoping for the best.

From reading different articles I was under the impression that part of the cause was bad blood flow to the area so I would of thought him stood in his box wouldn’t be doing any good? Being out in the field he can walk around free all day.

Here is a picture of his heart bars and gel pads (I hope)

shoe.jpg
 
Navicular - or rather navicular where bony changes could be seen on x-rays used to be blamed on lack of blood circulating to the bone, leading to it degenerating. There was no scientific basis behind this - just a best guess at the time.

The accepted thought now is that changes to the navicular bone are the result of soft tissue damage. The soft tissue damage always comes first. The deep digital flexor tendon runs round the back edge of the navicular bone. If this tendon gets damaged (usually as a result of low heels putting too much strain on the tendon and repeated toe first landing) it can result in bony changes happening to the navicular bone itself. The proof of this is that when you get a healthy balanced foot, with a strong heel and digital cushion the soft tissue damage heals and even bony changes can be reversed - resulting in no more navicular. Where once navicular was seen as incurable it is now not the case.

Heart bar shoes will relieve the pain - by raising the back of the foot (sometimes wedges are also used) and easing the strain on the DDFT. However it is not a cure as the horse will continue to land toe first rather than heel first as nature intended. The cure is achieved by growing a healthy foot with a thick digital cushion and strong heels and as a result gaining a proper heel first landing. This has been achieved time and time again by taking off the shoes, a good trim, proper diet and living and working in a suitable environment. Hope that helps explain things a bit.
 
Your horse looks like he has decent heels already thank goodness, keeping blood circulating will help to ease discomfort but navicular syndrome/disease is generally now accepted to be caused by external factors including poor/irregular trimming and poor conformation. Unfortunately bone damage cannot be reversed and any invaginations on the caudal portion of the navicular bone will stay that way, you just need to remove pain from the equation to improve him. It is a degeneration in the bone and it is not cureable.
 
Hi there,
My 7yo TB was diagnosed with advanced and acute navicular last summer, with a very poor prognosis. He has since been on a course of navilox, and three doses of Tildren (through IV, every three, six and nine months; now due another dose) but at £470 a shot it's an expensive 'experiment' to undertake.
He has had wedge shoes, pads (of various different types) but very few stayed on for longer than a day or two as he over-reaches terribly, even with boots on, and his hoof walls are fairly weak. We managed to get him to his best level of soundness with aluminium wedge shoes, which do still come off more easily, but are lightweight and a good compromise between heart-bar/ egg-bar and wedges. Merlot is not sound at the moment, but this is also due to having had to be walked in hand 3 times a day on the roads whilst on box rest for another injury, meaning that the hard surface has aggravated the navicular.

I think your horse's prognosis depends entirely on what your MRI report (if you had one done) shows; mine was pretty awful and gave very little hope, but even despite that we have sound days and even weeks. I try not to use bute too frequently as Merlot is so young and I would rather explore other options before using this solely, and relying on heavier and heavier dosing. (At the moment he has 1/2 or 1 sachet on bad days just to keep the pain at bay). I have looked into neurectomies, but still not convinced that these are entirely the best way to go - personal preference of course.

It's a demoralising condition to have to deal with, but I do know of horses who are living with navicular and still living happy and useful lives.

Good luck!
 
He has had nevre blocks and xrays done and all that they said was there was slight darkness showing up on his front left xray. I really cant afford to start giving him Tildren as that sounds quite expensive! He seems to be comfortable at the moment and not in any pain so i will keep going as i am. He is far happier and chilled since being back out with his friends. New shoes due on soon and then the vet is coming out again to check on him so will keep you all updated.

Thanks everone for the help!
 
Vet came out again last Friday, we trotted him up and put him on the lunge. The vet was very impressed with his progress, she said he is hardly lame at all just throws the odd stride every now and again. His feet still arent the same shape but much better. Soooo he is off the bute completly but still walking out for 30 mins a day on flat ground in a straight line. The vet now wants to come out in a month to check his progress. So things are looking up :)
 
Farrierlover said:
Unfortunately bone damage cannot be reversed and any invaginations on the caudal portion of the navicular bone will stay that way, you just need to remove pain from the equation to improve him. It is a degeneration in the bone and it is not cureable.
Click to expand...

This is not true in at least one case but I think probably most barefoot rehabs are the same. I know of a 23 year old whose bar shoes were removed at 18, having been used for 6 years. He has been MRI'd out of interest and lesions on the navicular bone in the original radiographs are no longer present. It seems totally logical to me - when I broke my arm it mended. Why wouldn't a navicular bone "mend" if you take away the toe-first action that caused the damage in the first place? If the bone stayed damaged then surely the horse would stay lame, and they don't. I have one with navicular bone changes on his radiographs with me at the moment and he is sound on the road in trot after nine weeks without shoes on.
 
You can see that the width across the heels is OK (not brilliant, but OK), but you can't see the length of the heels at all.

To me the size of the shoe looks very large for the foot, if the hoof wall meets the outer edge of that shoe, then its very flared and that indicates the diet prescribed is necessary.
 
if the hoof wall meets the outer edge of that shoe, then its very flared and that indicates the diet prescribed is necessary.[/QUOTE]

hi just reading this thread as i have and had similar experiances and i did'nt understand the above quote - does the type of diet dictate how a hoof grows - i apolize if i am having a 'blonde' momment
 
diet affects entirely the way the feet grow - starch and sugar content - lack of magnesium in diet can produce poor brittle hooves. sugar in spring grass can cause senstive feet (footyness) and then ridges growing down hoof.
Always aim for high fibre (good for guts) low starch and sugar content meals - feed magnesium if needed (magox or calmag) to supplement strong growth
diet wont ness affect way hoof grows (i.e. flared etc) but will affect strength and quality of horn
 
He has now been off the bute since 23/04 and seems to be doing well on the straight, i notice he is still sore when turning round but not half as bad as he was. Below are some more picture of his shoes when they were first put on so that you can see his heel etc. I will try and get some more recent ones to see if you can see any change.

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wow he got some chunky legs!!!! - heels still look underrun - takes a while to get that sorted - toe looks short - sould still be shorter - my farrier sets eggbar back then rolls toe on shoes and foot so her toes are mega short.
good he not on bute now and looking sounder. Hard ground is just rotten for them.
I was considering taking mine barefoot if didnt come sound is this something you would think about - alot of people say can help them - if he does come sound though - leave him in shoes for a bit.
 
Yes i would consider barefoot if he doesnt come sound, i am going to continue with the heart bar shoes as he seems to be progressing well. I have had him without shoes for a short period before and he get awfully foot sore, but if it was to help him in the long run then anything is worth a try!!

Here's a pic of the main man himself last july winning supreme champion, never thought 7 months down the line he would have Navicular :(

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I feel so sorry for you. My TB has been diagnosed today with navicular and I'm totally devastated and I was just thinking that this time last year, who woul dhave thought that we'd be in this position.

some of the replies on here are really positive and are giving me some hope.

hope all goes well for you
 
hey DGIN and rupertsmum have hope.... it is terribly hard ground at the moment. Mine went unlevel for a few weeks and is now sound again. She had been flying over winter no issues - DGIN she also been tried barefoot previously and flattest soles ever so gets sore - but if she hadnt come sound i would have taken her shoes off.
Mine is not on bute and is working as normal again - its just a matter of management, no trotting on roads, watch whether ground is level or rutty and hard. Work on arenas as much as can and horses can be fine and go on for years.
there should be a navicular support group for all us navicular affected horse owners!!!!
 
You could look on the UKNHCP Forum, they gave me a lot of advice when I thought my pony had Laminitis, there is a lot of good advice about going barefoot aswell if you decide too.
 
Hey rupertsmum

When I got told the vet 'thinks' its Navicular I just cried and cried. I didn’t know much about it but all I could think was that he would be a write off. Since reading up on Navicular and speaking to people on here I can now see a light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to find out what works best for your horse, at the moment these heart bar shoes seem to be working well but it could be that barefoot works best for yours?

Please keep us all updated as it helps to see how other people are progressing and how their horse is doing.

kezimac, I started off riding my horse down the drive at the stables which took about 10 mins there and 10 mins back which was Ideal at first. I have just started taking him round the block which take approx 30 mins this means that he has to walk on grass at some point which he seems ok on as its nice and flat but there is a slight hill which he has to walk down which he seems to struggle more, he likes to take it steady so I just let him walk at his own pace down there so he is more comfortable. I think me and him both were sick of walking up and down this drive every night so a change of scenery is much better.


I just want to thank everyone for their replies and hope everyone keeps us updated with their horses progress.
 
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