Navicular?

[blackhor2e]

Hi there,

I'm an old user who couldn't remember their password, so please excuse the fact I apparantly haven't any history of posting on here..

My horse was diagnosed on Wednesday as having the early onset of Navicular in her right fore , this was diagnosed via nerve blocking and then xray.

The vet has firstly suggested that I now change my mare's shoes to egg bar shoes and he has sent the xrays to my farrier to have a look at them before any corrective shoeing is done.

I then have to give her turn out for two weeks and then start doing some work with her for a further two weeks on one bute per day. At this point the vet has said he will come back and reassess.

Can any of you shed any light on whether this is a disease that can be managed, I was told we have caught it very early so hopefully this is a good thing?

Throught reading a few posts on here, it seems the 'barefoot movement' (pardon the expression ) are quite positive about navicular, but is there any positive feedback from using corrctive shoeing?

Any advice or helpful experiences, would be most welcome.

Thank you for reading, I have cookies on offer to the helpful posters

 

[Oberon]

We prefer "Barefoot Taliban"

 

[njyr]

Yep! I bought my boy 2 years ago and throughout the summer he was lame on and off, this April he was diagnoised with having modest damage.

I found a great remedial farrier and between us we've Got him sound. He has stayed sound too - for 4 summer months! He is wearing egg bars on the front and has extensions on the back to encourage him to bring his hinds through straight.

I read a lot of good stuff about barefoot though.

Good luck!

N

 

[TheCurlyPony]

Hi

We were diagnoised last october with very early changes. I didn't go down the shoeing route, I choose the barefoot route. I got lots of advice from people on here, I changed his diet, got an experienced trimmer, and he was sound by December. I'm not saying it works for everyone but you have nothing to loose. you may just be surprised. Above all time is a big factor. I decided to give myself a full year to see what happened. He is now back doing more work than he was before.

 

[GMR]

Hi,
So am I right The curly pony, you did this on your own?
i was thinking of sending my boy to rockley farm, its just the distance that worries me.
Have any advice for me,
re the diet? Do you think I could do this on my own?
G

 

[Holly Hocks]

Not only was my TB mare diagnosed with moderate navicular in both fronts last October, she was also diagnosed with bilateral spavin, hind limb PSLD and arthritis in one hind fetlock. I went against veterinary advice and had the shoes taken off. For the next six months (fortunately the weather was crap anyway!), she had short-term turnout (anything from an hour a day to a half day, weather dependent) and spent the rest of the time in the stable as it was important that the PSLD wasn't put under too much stress, but the turnout was necessary to keep her sane!
I started to bring her back into work at the beginning of April and since then we have been long-reining and hacking out. I started off with hoof boots and about a month ago I stopped using them. I also took on a good physio.
She is now starting to do some schooling and is feeling good. Her feet are superb. I would say that she occasionally feels a little bit lame behind when we first set off, on one back leg, however this is the one that has the spavin, PSLD and fetlock arthritis in, so that is only to be expected. It seems to wear off after about 10-15 minutes.
Good luck with whichever route you choose.

 

[GMR]

Thank you Holly Hocks,
My horse sounds much the same as yours ,
probabably older though,
He has spavins too, and coffin and navicular joint pain. Had the wedges on now for a year and injected his joint this feb, but now I'm at a yard with a good school surface and hacking on grass tracks only, it should be ideal for him as a starter without shoes.
He has night turn out at the moment, next shoeing is due mid sep.
So I really am tempted to start myself then....

 

[tallyho!]

My boy was shod remedially for navicular. We had success but he always went lame again. We tried it for two years before I started looking up barefoot. Called a qualified trimmer with lots of experience to look at him.

Wish I'd tried it sooner! I expected him to be off for a year but he came sound so quickly. We were hacking within a few months. Dressage by the April. And doing hunter trials by the autumn.

 

[TheCurlyPony]

GMR, I kind of did it alone , but got a lot of support from people like Oberon , CPT, I did a lot of reading on the Internet , kept an open mind, joined the barefoot Taliban, had a fairly supportive vet. Had a lots of high and lows along the way , but I'd take navicular over alot of other conditions any day. I've learned so much along the way . Time is another big thing. It doesn't happened over night, although you see changes very quickly. Give a try you have nothing to loose, if I can be of another help feel free to pm me.

 

[cptrayes]

Ask your vet why s/he believes mild/moderate changes to the navicular bone have the slightest thing to do with the fact that your horse is lame. In any yard of 100 horses there will be a high proportion of sound horses who show mild/moderate changes.

S/he should have explained to you that mild/moderate changes on x-ray are a VERY poor indicator of lameness in the horse and that it is rare that a horse with navicular changes which is MRId does not have soft tissue damage. It's the soft tissue damage that normally causes the lameness, as can be shown by how quickly they come sound with a barefoot rehab when the bone cannot have remodelled that quickly (in fact the opinion of most vets is that the navicular bone cannot repair at all!).

The most likely thing is that your horse has a deep digital flexor tendon injury or a collateral ligament injury inside the foot. The surest way that I know of to put that right is to take off the shoes. Remedial shoeing has a much lower success rate.

 

[GMR]

hi curly pony , have replied to your pm ...but asked a question I see you have replied to on your message here.
In a way its exciting to have this challenge but very scary and emotional to have to go thru.
Thank you everyone for your help...I think I'm going to need it!!
i'll take some photo's of my boy when i remember to take the camera!!

 

[china]

I have experience both. My tb was diagnosed with navicular in both fronts, Kissing spines and Spavins in both hocks. Vet and farrier decided on remedial shoeing, ok for short term but long term he still wasn't sound and he was constantly ripping the shoes off! So after much research and advice from here, I decided to take them off, much to my farriers scepticism. But even he said after six months they were looking great. He came sound infront, was slightly off behind with changes still happening. I was hacking him out with friends around woods etc in hoof boots. 15 months later I decided to have the shoes back on, purely down to the fact that I was hoping to be doing so much more with him as he felt great and with his Spavins he twists his back legs which causes the boots to twist so I was forever getting off to sort them out!
Well I am mega kicking myself for putting them back on. He is lame again, the angles of his feet have changed again and his white lines are stretched. He was shod in April so his feet have changed in this short space of time. My farrier is one of the best so this is not down to poor showing, i just feel its somethimg that is not suiting his issues His shoes came off again Tuesday and I have a UKNHCP trimmer coming out to see him. Their service goes beyond trimming and you get a personalised diet and there movement etc assessed of each visit. Fingers crossed for take two! I have also just read the feet first book which was good. Also rockley farms blogs make for good reading!

Excuse any typos, using an iPad!

 

[Pale Rider]

OP, don't go down the remedial shoeing route, remedial shoeing is I feel an oxymoron.

Getting rid of the shoes is the only answer, they caused navicular in the first place.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Agree with this, the digital cushion at the back of the hoof supports the navicular angle if well developed - in shod horses this is almost impossible for it to do as it is so undeveloped, and it is only when shoes are removed, the cushion develops over time and the angle/role of the navicular is normalised that the unnatural strain is removed and long term improvement can result.

 

[blackhor2e]

Thank you so much for all your replies,and I'm sorry not to have replied sooner myself, it just seems like an awful lot of information to digest...just three weeks ago we were jumping and she was sound and then after 1 week off she just isn't right

Why is it if barefoot works so well,that we are not directed towards that option first?

 

[Brownmare]

Why is it if barefoot works so well,that we are not directed towards that option first?

Well the cynical ones among us would say that it's because the vet doesn't get as much money out of that option but it's probably more to do with sticking to the safe, traditional option rather than going out on a limb with the new stuff!

 

[china]

Thank you so much for all your replies,and I'm sorry not to have replied sooner myself, it just seems like an awful lot of information to digest...just three weeks ago we were jumping and she was sound and then after 1 week off she just isn't right

Why is it if barefoot works so well,that we are not directed towards that option first?

I think it's still a relatively new move. My vet admitted to me he wasn't very supportive of it.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think when 99% of larger equines were shod as a matter of course (ponies were often unshod), and a proportion got navicular, there was no way to make the direct connection esp before advanced scanners and mobile equipment.

Now a small but growing proportion are unshod, and their incidence of navicular is I believe a lot lower, and scans etc show clearly the lack of support for the navicular in shod hooves and the completely different angles/levels of support in long term barefoot hooves, I think the connection is becoming a lot clearer.

 

[Oberon]

Why is it if barefoot works so well,that we are not directed towards that option first?

Because it's new thinking and new practice and the vets aren't comfortable suggesting it. They follow the prescribed measures of heart bars and wedges.

Because the beginnings of modern thinking on hooves had a bad start with well meaning people who misunderstood certain things and caused more harm than good for the horses and the reputation of barefoot. There were/are also egos at play within the hoof world
Vets are therefore suspicious......

Because insurance companies demand that we do SOMETHING NOW rather than remove the shoes and sit and wait for the horse to fix the problem.

Because for every happy outcome from going barefoot, you will find another person who didn't get it 'right' for the horse in terms of diet etc and the horse suffered.....then they loudly blame barefoot....and people only want to hear about the failures.

Because unhealthy hooves are so common - people don't know what healthy look like. Vets are taught from pictures and examples of UNHEALTHY hooves and think it's normal. They don't often know what a really healthy hoof is supposed to look like!

It's a never ending cause of frustration

Up until a few years ago - elevating the heels via wedges was the prescribed treatment for laminitis. Now vets know that is the wrong thing to do.

Hopefully, barefoot as a treatment option for navicular will be widespread one day

 

[blackhor2e]

Hi everyone, just wanted to say thank you for all the responses and advice.

I have decided to go down the barefoot route after discussing this with nearly the world and his wife, thank you for pointing me in this direction though, I have a feeling it would be a much better direction to go in.

Having said that, the lady who does barefoot trimming has recommended me to use wraps on my horses feet for the first couple of times which act like a bandage on the foot (has anybody heard of these?)