Need help with my rearing horse please

R2R

R2R

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Have had new horse a couple of months. He came from top yard via a friend who was diagnosed as secondary breast cancer (therefore not straight from dealer) and was bought to replace my top horse who died 2 years ago this October.

He is a 9 year old KWPN gelding.

He has £200 on his card and BD points. I bought him with the aim of having a “get to know you” year and then eventing next, my instructor thinks I should be aiming at a 1* but realistically I would like to do very well at intro!!! He was bought to be my top horse.

I have had him 2 months, for the first month he was “ticked over” and we had the odd days hunting, lessons etc. Couldn’t do a lot because of the weather. During the past month I have done some dressage, a bit of sj, and regular lessons etc.

My major problem is in the last month he has started to rear out hacking, and it is getting worse. I actually would rather he rears than rodeos, but all the same it is not ideal! I try to keep hacks very forward thinking, however he does it regardless.
Today he nearly killed the girl who rides him for me once or twice a week hacking
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by going up and not coming back down.
Have had teeth/back/tack and all the usual checked. I think he is VERY sensitive and tends to get very tense, but there is no excuse. At first I thought it was his feed, because as he was getting fitter he was also getting sharper, so I changed from mix, conditioning cubes and alfa a to pony nuts, basic chaff and calm and condition.

He is currently fed ½ scoop soaked calm and condition, 1 scoop pony nuts, and chaff. We changed to calm and condition as I thought the conditioning cubes were making him like it – he has chilled in himself but still going up? He is in work – as much as I can do whilst working full time, but exercised x6 days per week (he has been ridden every day this week) and in proper work, he is fit, looks well, and healthy. As an idea hacking would consist mostly of trot and canter work, I am schooling inc. lateral work, and s/j schooling up to about 1.20.

I just don’t know what to do, he is completely taking the p*ss – I don’t think there is any other reason, and I am really unsure of how to deal with it. Please help 

(also in NL/CR)
 
you have my sympathies, I have a horse who very occasionally waves at the queen although not right up, its not nice! Our horse is very poll pressure averse, we found changing his pelham to a true gag (running gag) helped a lot. What tack is yours in and also what circumstances and what pace is the rearing happening in?
 
only ever at a walk, and usually in the same place, which is by a railway bridge we have to cross to get to our hacking!

I ride him in a sweet iron single jointed loose ring snaffle, and hack in a well fitting gp
 
Micah has tried this a few times (hes WB too) So far I have been lucky and managed to prevent him rearing by turning him in tight circles, then flexing his head one way then the other while making him go forwards. Fingers crossed so far so goo. He does it when something is scary or he starts to nap
 
Hi, I bought a 17hh black and beautiful KWPN last year. He was fine for 9 weeks and then we had all sorts; head-shaking, rearing, bucking, bronching, you name it, he did it and it was big everytime and getting dangerous! I was so surprised at his reaction as I had spent 9 weeks getting him fit and he rode like a little lamb. I felt so lucky to have such a scopey horse and was grinning ear to ear everytime I rode. Like you, I bought my chap to start BSJA on a ticket and BE 90/100/Intro.

Turns out poor chap has long term chronic sacroiliac pain and kissing spine. He passed a 5 stage vetting!!!! I would also say, whilst he's not lame, the sacroiliac is causing leg joint problems too, maybe OCD or suspensory desmitis? Complete write off and it's not him in my siggy pictures, that's what I sold to buy the KWPN!

It could be so many things with your horse; food, discomfort, pain? You've done teeth, back and tack which I had done too. My advice would be to trace his history which will only cost a few quid in phone calls and a little of your time. Believe me, I found out some very disturbing things about my boy when I traced all his previous owners! PM me and I can give you my tips to trace the history as I can't discuss my situ yet as it's all with a legal team.
 
Oh dear - bloody rearers!

He sounds like he's napping (which is Moo's new trick) seeing as it's in the same place most of the time.

I'd stop the Calm and Condition (Oscar bucked me off on a hack after being on that!) and give him hifi and alpha beet to keep his weight on.

I know that Maddie wasn't hacked out much on her own which is why she has issues and if the girl riding him out isn't kicking him on when she feels him back off then that's not going to help - probably why he's not doing it with you as you can feel him tense up now.
 
He is not napping... he is being a knobber!

Also, have had 3 different people hack him out, and he has done the same thing in the same place.
 
Do you go over the bridge or under it? And does he do it both ways or just away from home? I would wonder if it is perhaps linked to the bridge....
 
Only going over, thats it! He also has the odd tantrum by the recycling box, it is the same thing every time, and gets worse if there is something different (eg someone standing on the brigde)
 
It might be that the different sound of his feet is maybe scaring him and causing panic reaction to avoid it.....we go across a wooden sleeper bridge and a concrete bridge hacking and one of the liveries has to get off to lead over one but not the other as her horse can't get his head aroung the sound of his feet on the concrete bridge
 
My TB used to have moments where he did this, one particular ride he knew the short cut home & would object by rearing if I tried to go the longer way. Only way I could prevent it was keeping him very forward - generally only possible in trot - much easier to keep in front of leg. He was also hacked for a time in a short standing martingale (not suggesting you do this but it did help with him) which prevented him getting so high as to be dangerous.
As its not something he is doing all the time & is only at specific times it would suggest it is behavioural as oppose to a physical problem.
 
Take him off all the hard feed and just feed him soaked hay. Keep the work up and see what he is like after 8 weeks.
 
[ QUOTE ]
He is not napping... he is being a knobber!

Also, have had 3 different people hack him out, and he has done the same thing in the same place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then surely that's napping?
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Horses nap because they're scared or a knobber
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My rearer eventually went better in an English Hackamore - just a thought. Nothing wrong with his mouth at all, or anywhere else - just being plain nasty. Also used quite long spurs and whip, and we got there in the end. Not nice tho.

After all that, I had to sell him. Still miss him now !
 
To me napping = horse does not want to go forward

He has a tantrum, then enjoys himself and goes forward!
 
Have you tried getting off and walking him past that particular point? I don't know his level of schooling, but shoulder-in or reign back or someother mind occupying action past the point and see what the reaction is?

Dizz is a DWB and she went up the other day, she's threatened before (little hops), but this was a proper one. I find Thelwell kicks work on her. A smack on the bum and she'd put the rider into a hedge; though she will respect a smack down the shoulder.

Dizz has to have her mind occupied all the time or she will 'find' things to keep her amused.
 
He is napping, rearing is an evasion of going forwards. My boy is excellent at it, but i'm on top of him! There are different types of rear depending on the reasons behind it. A straightforward rear without any follow up is an evasion. Sometimes they will rear as a method to spin, so they will go up and turn about on the quarters at the same time. Then take you home fast when they come back down! Then there is the "lost the plot" rear, and they are the really dangerous ones where the horse has lost control of his self preservation and is likely to go over backwards. He's not thinking straight and the rider needs to be ready to bail out and roll fast. ( I know all this from experience. I train naughty horses.)
Horses can only rear when they stop moving forwards, and when they have control through thier neck (needs to be straight) to be able to throw the head up. So the two BIG keys to stopping a rear is 1, Keep the horse forward. Even if you have to gallop past his usual rearing spot he MUST go forward. 2, If he does get as far as trying it on, (soulfull is spot on) bend his neck. Pull him left, then right then left, all the time sending him forward.
You can try the old bop him between the ears, but if it's got that far i doubt that will be the first thing on your mind. I don't see that as a cure anyway, i don't have much faith in it. I do it on my boy sometimes, but he knows he hasn't hit the roof and it's me beating him up again! Just makes him more p*ssed off!
If he's calm and reasonable in every other way, don't worry about changing the feeds or putting him on calmers. Waste of time. He has learned a trick which he's trying to use to evade / go home / show his opinion. It's the trigger to the rear and the riders reaction that will sort this out. Elliminate the trigger, ie trot or canter past his usual rearing places. Even if it looks ugly, get him forward!
Good luck.
P.s. If you get very good at controlling a rear and your horse absolutley refuses to go forwards, turn around and rein back. My assh*le horse has turned many heads while running backwards down the road. But at least we are going in the right direction! And when he's finally bored of the fight, he goes forwards. Oh he's taught me so much!
 
Horses don't suddenly start rearing for no apparent reason. A healthy & happy horse doesn't rear like this. You may have had your horse's teeth, back and tack all checked but, as already suggested, there may be something wrong elsewhere. I used to look after an ex-racehorse who reared out on hacks following fittening work, and it turned out to be because he had pulled a muscle inbetween his forelegs, which hurt when doing certain movements (hence why he was so reluctant to move forwards). It is all to easy to assume that if a horse doesn't seem to be frightened or in pain, then he must be being naughty. The thing is, not only does giving him a smack give him more to fight against, but it also only tackles the symptoms and not the problem itself. Is he better in company, in familiar surroundings or when he's had lots of turnout? Napping/rearing can be, at the time, discouraged or minimised by encouraging forwards movement. A strong bit will only make him more likely to think 'backwards' and rear up. I think it's likely that you have a very sensitive horse who, perhaps, has been giving sutble signals that he's not happy in the past which have been ignored, making him feel that he has to "shout" even louder to make himself heard.
Considering what you are feeding him, I doubt that it is contributing significantly to his undesirable behaviour.
Try avoiding things that trigger the rearing: i.e. getting into a fight or trying to force him forwards. Stay calm and quiet and give him time to think the situation over. Many people still believe that getting off and leadign is 'giving in' or letting him 'win', but your horse will gain confidence from beigng able to follow your lead and it will thus encourage him forwards. Some lessons or 1-2-1 advice from a very experienced horseman or woman may help you, too.

Good luck!
 
Good re getting everything checked again.

Dizz had the physio and the saddler out the week before Christmas. Four weeks ago she started being a pain when ridden, really resistant to downward transitions, head waving, etc. Had the physio back - she'd tweaked a couple of points in her neck. Had the saddler out - the saddle is not rocking on the points, making downward transitions painful: she has grown a lot in the last two months, however horses are changing shape a this time of year. Dentist was out in October, but is due next week.

Just as a last point. I had a Master Saddler out to my last horse. She said the saddle fitted. The horse said it didn't. I went with the horse's view and changed saddles. Horse stopped turning her bum on me when she saw the saddle
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.
 
Just in case i sounded quite harsh. I'm all for giving the horse the benefit of the doubt. Of course get him checked out in every way possible. But IMHO rearing is such a serious and dangerous behaviour that it needs to be dealt with very quickly indeed. The more the horse rears, the more confident he will become in challenging the rider and the better his rearing tecnique will become. If you are sure he is trying it on, then be very firm. Gentle encouragement to send him forwards (in my experience ) is like whispering "oh please behave yourself sweetie, please please darling." He will probably relish the opportunity to work his rider out further. Sod that! SHOUT at him. " How bloody dare you, i pay for the food you eat and the rugs on your back now get your arse on and earn your living!"
There is a time and a place for being sensitive and kind, but if your horse is being a dangerous arse your kindness will be ignored while he gets better at being a nob!
 
I agree with the two postings above; there has to be a reason for this. My boy is a real sweetheart - but has reared in the past because he had confidence issues hacking alone, having never done so before he came to me. So the issue is really one of napping I would suggest (or in other words, rearing being the evidence of an ultimate refusal to go forwards). One hesitates to use the words "natural horsemanship" but having been a real cynic initially, the only person who could help both me and my boy was someone who works completely off-the-wall and uses a different approach. I've got off and led, when necessary, to give him confidence; and had to get away from the thinking that this was a "failure". I really do recommend you try someone from Parelli, Intelligent Horsemanship, or whatever. Often a fresh approach is what's needed, and its not that you're doing anything wrong - its just some horses work differently with different approaches. Good luck!
 
I'm with you on this one Equimo!! Being the unlucky bugger that was on him when he threw all his toys out the pram this morning I can safely say he's being a sod!

He has had everything checked - if it was pain related surely he would behave the same in company and when ridden in the school (which he doesn't) and if it was a confidence issue it wouldn't have suddenly appeared when he has been fine hacking out alone previously.
 
[ QUOTE ]
He is not napping... he is being a knobber!

Also, have had 3 different people hack him out, and he has done the same thing in the same place.

[/ QUOTE ]
it is a form of napping really, some spin round others rear esp if it's in the same place and with different riders. Would it be safe to long rein him to get him past it a few times and see if he does it then?
 
He has had everything checked - if it was pain related surely he would behave the same in company and when ridden in the school (which he doesn't) and if it was a confidence issue it wouldn't have suddenly appeared when he has been fine hacking out alone previously.

Almost certianly agree about the pain if he is fine in company. BUT if he is fine in company then it is almost certainly a confidence thing! Share horsey developed a phobia of a particular point a while back. I *think* it was due to something that happened with another person there... but unfortunately not a person I could trust to tell the whole story. We're now over it due to a combination of walking there in hand, treating, riding there, praising and just waiting it out.

If this is a railway bridge perhaps he got scared by a train going under one time? Or perhaps something else happened with his other rider(s)?

Either way whilst it is *very* scary for you (I was bad enough with little hopping rears & spinning/running backwards on share horsey) it does sound as though yours is genuinely scared.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm with you on this one Equimo!! Being the unlucky bugger that was on him when he threw all his toys out the pram this morning I can safely say he's being a sod!

He has had everything checked - if it was pain related surely he would behave the same in company and when ridden in the school (which he doesn't) and if it was a confidence issue it wouldn't have suddenly appeared when he has been fine hacking out alone previously.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to say it was you but didnt want to make you blush!!!
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I'm glad you can back me up with the "he is being a knob" rather than "he is in pain" theory!!
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If he only does it in one spot, I'd probably hop off and lead him before getting to the spot, pass the spot then get back on and carry on with the hack.
 
Firstly a word or warning to ride rearers- i had one, brilliant sj but on a bad day as she was v.temperamental she would rear over nothing. this pony knew what she was doing. she would be bolt upright. my instructor, whos ridden in the olympics even said he wouldnt get on her! u hav 2 sit and balance with the horse. unfortunately my mare one day reared up, i fell off and she came over backwards. i was fortunate she didnt fall on me but i broke my leg badly. ironically i'd got someone else to ride her past a spot where she often played up out hacking, he'd trotted her past the spot. then i got on and she went straight up. my mum sold the horse and would never have let me get back on it (when i finally could ride again 4 months later!). it really isnt worth it.
however, i can also understand that if a horse is scared rearing is a natural reaction. we tried everything with that pony, calm and patting, smacking with whip, leading, putting bungee on. noithing worked.
...since, i have had the BEST peice of advice and that is definitely turning the head to the side as tight as you can. preferably before they get to go up. it doesnt matter if u initially end up riding in the wrong direction. its better than rearing! wish i'd tried it with that pony. my new horse now bounces and spins when scared and turning his head works every time. but trust me, i didnt realise how much confidence i lost from that fall. i was useless next time a horse even stopped moving forward with me on because that was the ponies premeditator to rearing. its taken years to get that confidence back and i still hate rearing more than anything. I was wearing a hat, body protector, everything but still got seriously hurt. i wouldnt wish it on anyone <font color="blue"> </font>
 
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