Need some advice RE a barefoot horse...

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Troyseph

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Ok here's the situation. My horse has been barefoot for 5 months, he was shod prior to this we never had any problems shod but after reading a lot we decided to give it a go. So far we've not had any problems apart from being a bit footsore still on small gravel etc. My barefoot trimmer is really pleased with his progress so far, and up until now I've not questioned my trimmers techniques, however i don't know too much bout barefoot techniques, so I've never questioned him, he's lovely and very knowledgeable too, but anyway...

My horse has now gone away to a very experienced friends yard to be schooled on, he's coming on SO well, but then again she's a very experienced lady with many years under her belt and so calm with them all too, and the patience of a saint.

She's mentioned her farrier (who actually use to shoe the queens horses!) a very experienced man has looked at his feet and noticed his back feet have been rolled too much, and are almost forcing him to be a bit uneven with his paces. I can't remember the exact words, but she now thinks he should be shod, because even when lunging him she's not happy that he is moving as well as he could be...

Anyway I just need some advice because I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, the lady isn't pushing me into it in any sense, but has advised on just a pair of fronts on, but I just want what's best for my horse!

Ahhhh!
 
Hi,

I brought my pony barefoot but with the terrain i'm riding him in was advised to put front irons on - it improved him no end.

If your horse needs front irons for the work this lady is doing with him then maybe it's best to do so - once he's been schooled then maybe consider taking the front irons off?
 
Barefoot horses move differently to shod horses. If one is not used to seeing this, it looks like the horse is lame. Going downhill is a classic example! All that extra grip makes the horse move differently to a shod horse.

How can you roll "too much"? You either roll the toe or you don't. And yes, if his backs are qthe problem, why would you shoe the fronts? Sounds like you have sent your horse to an anti barefoot establishment :D

How is his diet there?
 
My thoughts were also why shoe the front if the backs are the problem? And I agree that it just sounds like an excuse to get shoes back on. I dont agree with barefoot horses sometimes looking lame due to different movement; I've not witnessed that at all.

Do you have any photos of your horse's feet? Shoeing will alter a horses movement just as much as a bad trim, and that's rarely a good thing imho...
 
Hello, I really feel for you, I had a similar dilemma with my mare, she was much better without shoes until we increased her workload, then she struggled and was shifting her weight to the outsides of the feet. It was a catch 22.

I dont understand why simply fronts are being mentioned, are they trying to be polite perhaps and do things in stages?

In my experience the only way forward was to trust my farrier (I did lots of research about him!) I was lucky because he was very honest. I never used a barefoot trimmer - always used my farrier.

I would perhaps research the farrier next?

Good luck, hope it all works out
 
If he has been absolutely fine without I would suggest this is a nosey farrier who doesnt like new things and feels the need to slap shoes on everything he sees.

Absolutely pointless when he has been fine imo. Pics of his feet would be great, but a rolled toe is what you want in barefoot as it protects the hoof!

Id be telling the lady that unless he goes hopping lame in which case you and your trimmer will go for a visit he is NOT to be interfered with! Just because she has years of experience does not make her right, especially when its a subject she clearly knows nothing about.
 
I definately think you need a good and thorough explaination from the farrier as to why putting fronts on will help the hinds. I think your worries about what to do will fade away when he attempts to explain!!
 
I think you should and your trimmer should go and look at the horse, have it walked out and asses for yourself, there are loads of video clips , see Rockley Farm.
The horse should walk out using the hind [caudal] part of the hoof, but ask your trimmer to explain the process of barefoot and how it will affect his gait and natural conformation.
It is your horse and to my mind, you will be able to learn quite a bit by gathering information from Feet First and other sources to assess for yourself.
The diet may need to be adjusted for barefoot, but your trimmer should have advised on this and on his general management.
Diet: low sugar high fibre, minerals and micronised linseesd meal.
Exercise: introduce exercise on a variety of surfaces, eg tarmac to self trim and keep the sole "tough".
Grazing/forage: avoid ad lib high sugar grass or haylage if this affects feet, also cut out Alfa if there are problems.
To be honest my boy never has had his hind feet rolled, and they have not been touched for a year.
The fronts are lightly rolled once a month or less, certainly not extreme, just better than most horses which are "grass trimmed" then left in a field for six months till they start to break up or flare.
 
I wonder how the the trainer/friend in question would feel if the trimmer brought along another trainer, examined the horse in question and then criticised the original trainer's work behind their back?

That aside; rolling toes allows feet to breakover much more smartly/swiftly and that is the point. If you are only used to seeing how shod feet leave the ground a barefoot will look different - but not lame.

It is possible to over roll the toes, and this can have consequences, but these are most often seen in front not behind. For example a tight roll may push the horse onto a heel which is under developed or onto a thrushy frog and neither can take the added load.

Shoeing the fronts will not compensate for inappropriate work on the backs - sorry but that thought just demonstrates that the trainer lacks experience in that area, regardless of how good they are at schooling.

It would be more satisfactory, respectful and professional if the trainer raised their concerns with the owner/OP first. They should then have a meeting with the trimmer where an honest conversation can be had/concerns raised etc. To do otherwise is extremely disrespectful and not the action of a professional.

If the owner (OP) is not satisfied with the trimmer's answers/work then they can move on and get another trimmer/farrier involved.
 
Further to previous post - I suspect that everyone is looking in the wrong place.

I find time and time again that horses sent away for schooling at some point suffer some degree of low grade laminitis. Some call it sub clinical, let's not get carried away with semantics. If you wonder why this is - then let's start a different thread or you can pm me.

If the fronts are not right this will change how they are being used and often delays breakover. When the fronts are slow to leave the ground this impacts on how the hind end of the horse works. If the horse tries or is forced to 'work through' they may over reach or start to move strangely. Some simply can't worth through as they are unable to step under themselves. Both types of action can cause varying degrees of muscle pain; the loins, quarters and hamstrings are commonly affected.

The solution is to resolve the causal factor behind the LGL, roll the fronts properly and the problem will more or less go away by itself.

To shoe the fronts will mask the problem but it won't solve it.

Ok now I am going to duck because I can just imagine how popular this post is going to make me! :-)
 
OP don't over complicate this problem if the lady training your horse thinks that he not moving as well as he could be and if you respect her and as you say the horses training is progressing well if you feel you can trust her judgement do so.
My trimmer is very clear barefoot is about the whole management system of the horse and you can't micro manage the horse while it's away.
He may simply be doing more work and that is causing the issue I have this with me barefoot dressage horse all was going well until I uped the work and now his foot growth is not keeping up with his work load.
His white line are excellent and tight and all his shod companions (on the same diet) are growing loads of foot.
Having a good farrier put shoes on him will do him no harm and you can always go back to,barefoot in the future but it not reasonable to expect the trainer to train him or him to be trained if he is showing signs of discomfort.
 
Goldenstar said:
OP don't over complicate this problem if the lady training your horse thinks that he not moving as well as he could be and if you respect her and as you say the horses training is progressing well if you feel you can trust her judgement do so.
My trimmer is very clear barefoot is about the whole management system of the horse and you can't micro manage the horse while it's away.
He may simply be doing more work and that is causing the issue I have this with me barefoot dressage horse all was going well until I uped the work and now his foot growth is not keeping up with his work load.
His white line are excellent and tight and all his shod companions (on the same diet) are growing loads of foot.
Having a good farrier put shoes on him will do him no harm and you can always go back to,barefoot in the future but it not reasonable to expect the trainer to train him or him to be trained if he is showing signs of discomfort.
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Im pretty sure you are not covering several hundred miles a week on tarmac with your horse - in which case his foot growth might begin to struggle. However horses do NOT wear out their hooves in normal circumstances - diet needs addressing.

Putting shoes on a horse who was totally fine bf seems very contradictory to hoof health, its clear from the farrier and trainers comments that they have little knowledge of foot function and shouldnt there fore be advising on it - as Lucy has said to shoe the fronts if the backs action are in question is a clear indicator of confused thinking.
 
TigerTail said:
Im pretty sure you are not covering several hundred miles a week on tarmac with your horse - in which case his foot growth might begin to struggle. However horses do NOT wear out their hooves in normal circumstances - diet needs addressing.

Putting shoes on a horse who was totally fine bf seems very contradictory to hoof health, its clear from the farrier and trainers comments that they have little knowledge of foot function and shouldnt there fore be advising on it - as Lucy has said to shoe the fronts if the backs action are in question is a clear indicator of confused thinking.
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The diet is great the qualified trimmer the vet and farrier all agree this and he has perfect white lines.
So dont tell me that the diet needs addressing when you have not seen my horse it's feet or know what work it's doing.
Barefoot will not work in every situation my trimmer says this ,what would you do keep working a horse that definatly is not footy with a low grade lami when he is telling us he's uncomfortable at this level of work.
The shod horses on the same diet are growing so much foot that i am debating whether I need to shoe them every fourth week.
The trimmer says he is the horse in his pracise doing the most work and if using the boots that arrived yesterday does not fix the issue his advice is shoe .
You have to go with the advice of the qualified person on the ground .
The horse has fab feet and has been barefoot since November he has Been with me four years and has never missed a days work .
 
Goldenstar said:
The diet is great the qualified trimmer the vet and farrier all agree this and he has perfect white lines.
.
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But this individual horse is clearly telling you the diet isnt suiting HIM. It might be fine for the others, but something has changed and its not longer meeting his needs. Slapping shoes on is just masking the issues, not addressing them.
 
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