Need some advice.....

[Parkranger]

Hi guys

Without mentioning names, I'd really appreciate any advice on people who've dealt with fake passports or suspicious circumstances in which they've brought their horse.

I'm also trying to find out if anyone has ever brought a horse from a dealer (who imported from Ireland) only to end up with a newly issued passport and no history on that passport.....

The person that I purchased from has told me that they buy far too many horses off the importing dealer to ever know where he came from.

May all be above board but unfortunately alarm bells are ringing.

My concern is that he's had a few nasty knocks and if I'm not supposed to be doing certain activities with him then I'd like to know for his own welfare. Also considering getting xrays done on the areas concerned.

Yes, I should have done all this before buying him but unfortunately heart rules head.....

Thanks

 

[ClareMc]

I bought a pony from a dealer who gets a load of horses from Ireland, very little known about them. I don't doubt that the dealer was pretty honest (for a dealer, if you know what i mean).

She had a passport but so few details on the passport I was shocked that they would issue it, it could have applied to just about any grey pony mare, height was wrong no markings illustrated.

Luckily have had her a year and no problems but I can sympathise with your problem.

 

[Parkranger]

But you got the passport from the dealer right? It seems as though his passport was 'lost' after being imported....unfortunately I'm a bit like a dog with a bone and won't let this go.

 

[JM7]

do you have one at all??? (passport)

it is actually illegal to SELL without a passport, but NOT buy??!!!

go back to dealer and ask for passport..if not, ring defra for advice..and go from there....

to be honest, if you've bought a lemon, ask dealer to take it back if not up to what you want to do..could save you alot of money in the long run...

 

[Parkranger]

I didn't buy from the dealer, brought from a school who brought from the dealer.....both are being a bit cagey with me hence my suspicion.

TBH, he's jumping really well and getting fit so I'm guessing there's nothing major - I realise that he'll probably get arthritic in his shoulder as he gets older as it's a very nasty knock but I knew that when I brought him.

Thing is, there's no way I'd get rid of him now. If it turned out that in 6 months time he was lame and couldn't do anything (god forbid) he'd go and live with my mum on her land....there's no way I'd send him back there as he'd just go for meat. I'd then have to take on the school at the small claims court I'm guessing.

Anyway, I'm not going to worry about that just yet....we're having fun together and he's a great horse - just frustrating when people act so suspiciously!

 

[Parkranger]

Sorry , to answer your question, I do have a passport - it looks a bit dodgy though after looking at other ones so I'm going to have a closer look later on and call the issuing authority to check out if it's legit.

 

[horsegirl]

Hi,

With regard to the knocks, he passed the vetting right? Did you discuss with the vet what you wanted him for? If he was not suitable for these activities wouldn't the vet have advised this?

 

[Parkranger]

The vet said that nothing seemed to be causing him trouble at the moment, hence the reason I brought him.

As I say, at the moment everything is perfect but surely I should be digging a bit to cover myself incase anything does happen in the future......the fact that people are being so cagey just makes be think there is something to hide....

 

[Parkranger]

In hindsight perhaps I should have got xrays done as a precaution during the 5 stage.....

 

[ClareMc]

Yes I did get the passport from the dealer, although not when I picked her up. They promised to post it on so I was a bit suspicious, but i did get it in a ciouple of weeks.

 

[horsegirl]

I know it is frustrating when you can't find out all the background, especially if the sellers turn out to be less than truthful. Have you considered posting his photos on all the forums you can find along with any info you know is true, someone must know his background? Do you know his racing name?

 

[ihatework]

I think you are worrying over something that may or may not ever happen.
When you buy a horse there is always a risk of injury later on in life.

But from the sounds of it
1. He has passed a 5 stage vetting and declared fit for purpose
2. You are enjoying riding him and so again is fit for purpose
3. You have an identity passport

To be honest, without hard facts, you have no proof either dealer or yard have done anything wrong?

Horses are shipped over from ireland all the time, most of which have sketchy histories.

Just enjoy your horse!!

 

[Clodagh]

I bought from a dealer last year. Horse came without a passport, but the dealer was a PIO so I got one sent on to me. Agreed, very suspicious! I sent the horse back as it failed the vet (had it on the condition that my vet could vet it) and when I went back to look for another one the girl said 'Oh, I can't remember their new names. I mean - HELLO!!?? So, I got my money back eventually and didn't buy another.
I wonder what it is we aren't supposed to know!
Edited to add, probably not worth worrying about now, you've got him and you're happy with him.

 

[Parkranger]

You're right - just a big fat worrier I suppose.

Aslong as the passport adds up ok, I suppose I just need to let it go.....will learn not to buy off similar people in the future though!

Thanks all x

 

[katiejaye]

Hi, my boy came from Ireland and had no documents/papers at all with him. He too had some nasty scars and knocks and was quite a skinny lad. I fell in love with him though but made sure I had him vetted thoroughly and tried him out quite a few times before I bought him. I've had him 8 years and so far so good...he's a little gem! Sometimes the heart really does rule over the head!

 

[Lucy_Ally]

Didn't he pass a 5* vetting recently? If so then he should be more than up to the activities you want to do with him surely? There are lots of horses out there with unknown histories and not all of them have dark and shady pasts! Having said that though, the passport system is a complete and utter farce with any old person able to set up as an issuer - even abattoirs!

 

[Parkranger]

That's not strictly true - I spoke to Defra and BHS and they sent me a list of the only people who can issue the passports....I'm sure (but can't confirm until h drops off the passport to work) that the school issued the passport - which would mean it's illegal.......

 

[Parkranger]

Great to hear good stories - my boy was skinny as anything when he first got in from ireland. I was convinced (when I first rode him a few months ago) that he was about 18 as he was so dippy backed and skinny....bless him

 

[mrdarcy]

I honestly think you're worrying over nothing. Passports really aren't worth the paper they're written on as, like another poster said, so many people/organisations are authorised to issue them - most without ever seeing the horse in question. As for the riding school issuing your boys as I understood it anyone who's an AI or above can apply to be allowed to authorise passports so it probably is perfectly legal.

He passed he 5 stage vetting - that's the only reliable thing you can go on. As for x-rays I think you'd be wasting your money. I'd only ever get x-rays at the time of vetting on something that was worth a huge amount of money (£10k+) to compete on at a reasonably high level. Anything else I just wouldn't bother.

Just enjoy him and try to stop worrying (that's the hard bit I know!)

 

[Bri]

My boy was shipped over from ireland by a dealer...

Same as others, Passport was being applied for when we bought him, so it was posted to us later. Very dodgy looking and dealer refuses to tell us anything of his history.
Didn't bother me at all until he went lame, Vet thinks it could well be something he may have been born with, or had for a considerable amount of time but has just degenerated. If we knew his history we might have had a much better idea of what's wrong. Then again we might not...

 

[Lucy_Ally]

I know first hand that the abattoir can issue passports. When the passport system was brought in, anyone could set up as an issuer, DEFRA didn't put guidlines on who could and who couldn't.

 

[Parkranger]

God, it's a complete farce isn't it!!!

 

[Lucy_Ally]

Yes,

I really wouldn't worry about it. Horses are always a gamble but he's passed a 5* vetting, so he will be as good as you can hope him to be - just enjoy him!

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is, there's no way I'd get rid of him now. If it turned out that in 6 months time he was lame and couldn't do anything (god forbid) he'd go and live with my mum on her land....there's no way I'd send him back there as he'd just go for meat. I'd then have to take on the school at the small claims court I'm guessing.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had him vetted then I fail to see how you could bring a claim against the riding school?! Especially so many months later!

 

[Parkranger]

You know what, I'm just being silly and thinking the worst!

What I'm saying is that I'm trying to find all this out now so that I do have comeback rather than waiting for something bad to happen (if that makes sense).

If he was brought from Ireland as not really good for anything, then sold to me as a RC type horse then of course I'd have a case - the law is very much on the purchasers side nowadays.

 

[Puppy]

TBH, I'm not sure that you would. If he'd working in a riding school and passed a vetting then surely its pretty undisputable that he is a "RC type"?

If it turned out he in fact had a condition which meant he was not suitable/physically capable to do the work that you plan on doing with him then you may have a case against the vet - but of course you would have to prove that the condition had existed at the time of the vetting, not developed since, and that the vet was negligent not to pick up on it.