Need some incouragement

[Kelly1982]

I have recently brought a 4yo, as some of you know, who was professionally schooled for 6 months as was brilliant. Had a natural outline, was light in the hand and was naturally balanced.

I got her home and it has gone downhill fast!!!! Outline has disapeared, our balanced canter in now a flat out gallop and she is fighting me every step of the way.

I had my first lesson the other day with her as i wanted to start early so that i didn't teach her any bad habits.

Well last night was the worst schooling session EVER and made me wanna cry!! I was schooling her for 45mins mainly in walk and a little bit of trot and she was foaming from head to toe where we were at logger heads!!! I was trying to do everything the instructor told me but with her snatching the reins, tightening up into a ball so she could explode at any minute and then tanking off rodeing round the school it was pretty impossible. I did get it out of her eventually in a walk for the last 5 mins but it was a 40min battle to get that.

I have had youngster before but none with such a character and so opinionated as her. My instructor said 'these things are sent to test us' and testing me she certainly is!!!!

I'm so worried i am going to ruin a very telented youngster if i haven't already

Gonna have another lesson next week hopefully but i am not looking forward to riding her in between.

On a good note she has finally settled into heer routine and is no longer demolishing the stable and trying to kill me in the process.

 

[frannieuk]

My mare used to be like that - I used to spend 45 mins trying to trot 20m circles in the school just to get her settled, she's now 8 and has turned (imo!) into a relly nice, albeit occasionally quirky, horse. Keep going, you'll get there soon enough

 

[dieseldog]

You won't ruin her, she probably behaved like this with the other people to start with and is just trying you out. Lunge her before you get on her. You are doing the right thing having lessons, and cut out her hard feed until you are the boss.

She wouldn't have become opionated over night - she would always have been like it, it just that they worked out what to do - with your instructors help you'll get there

 

[Vey]

Some things you could look at is -
more turnout, so she works off more energy in the field.

More hacking, so she works off energy and does not get bored.

Do a lot of schooling in canter in the hope that she gets bored of cantering round in rings and gets more tired.

 

[Kelly1982]

Thanks guys thats what i need to hear

She is only on a large scoop of alpha-a and a small scoop of pasture mix as it is so not exactly getting loads of hard feed but maybe i should cut it out altogether then.

Because they were pro's they made it look easy and its made me feel really rubbish about what she was like then and what she is like now and i feel like i have done that to her

I have had youngsters play up before and they have always turned out ok in the end but none as bad as her so now i am doubting my ability a bit

 

[Kelly1982]

She is turned out from 7.30am to 6.30pm so gets plenty of turn out and i do try hacking her out as much as poss but with day light hours disapearing fast that is going to be hard to do during the week.

I also try giving her variety like lunging one day, then schooling, then hacking, then schooling, then jumping, then hacking etc but it dont seem to make a difference.

I know its early days i am just worried i will ruin her

 

[Greyhound]

Have you had teeth, back, etc checked recently.
It sounds like a dramatic change in character, changed her feed or anything?

Sorry if I am going over the obvious I dont mean to offend you.

Have you tried lunging her prior to working, to get her thinking and supple, do you always ride in the school, can you school out hacking taking up the contact and working and then chilling to reward.

Got back to basics, can you go with her for a week back to the schooling place you had her and try and have some lessons with the previous chap.

I dont mean to sound rude but your current instructor, from what you have said, doesnt sounds too helpful.

Gh

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I seriously don't think you'd ruin her.

Keep up with the lessons, lunge her before hand so as she's a little tired (to take the edge off her) and spend lots of time just getting her to switch off. This would include lots of walk in circles and changes of direction, moving onto trot and transistions. Try not to battle with her, remember you tell a gelding, and ASK a mare. if she gets wound up, move back a stage and just allow her to chill out. She still needs to get used to you, and you her, so give it time.Try not to stable her if you don't need to. And cut her hard feed, if she's rugged and not doing alot of work she won't need that much.

 

[Judie]

Hi Kelly, don't go beating yourself up over this, she is young and if she didn't test you what sort of character would she be - a bit dull if you ask me! Just make sure you're not trying too hard, such an easy mistake to make when you want it so badly. Don't ask for too much, I know she's been in a pro's yard but that doesn't mean at her age she can continue at that pace, take her back a little, get her confidence (and yours) and do lots of supplying, soft outline, transitions, transitions and back to bed.

She will soon settle you'll see - have we had piccies yet? did I miss them?

 

[Rambo]

Sounds like she has a little too much energy Kelly

What are you feeding her ?

Don't get too despondent though....she's just testing you out and so long as you give her consistent signals and don't let her win, she'll come round eventually

 

[Kelly1982]

She is constantly full of energy which i like when she is using it positivly!!

She is only on 1 scoop of alpha-a and one small scoop of mix a day so not loads.

I put it down to her just testing my if i cant curb it now i have got no hope for the future!!!

 

[pottamus]

Already some good ideas on here re the lunging beforehand and cutting out the hard feed. I would also suggest that perhaps 45 mins mainly in walk might be a bit boring for her, especially if she is the sharp intelligent type...if she is anyway bored or not challenged mentally it will give her time to get worked up or think of 'tricks' etc...just a suggestion?
But I am sure you are not on your own and I have def been there with my boy who was an absolute bu***r for quite long enough! We have come through the other end and he is a great chap now...quirky, with character and plenty of attitude...but a partnership nethertheless...and you will get there too. But don't beat yourself up...you will not ruin her and it's just a phase. By the way, there is also nothing wrong in going and having a good cry or lining cat food tins on the stable door...which I did more than once...LOL! But never give up!!!

 

[Kelly1982]

I was only mainly in walk for 45mins coz she was being such a c*w so everytime i tried to do something different she became too much so i brought her back to walk again.

I will try lunging before i ride and i am also gonna see about getting a passoa and i will cut her hard feed right down to just a mouthful. Dont like not giving her nothing at all as she looks forward to it so might just give her a handful of alpha and some apples.

Thanks everyone for all your advice, its all noted and will give it all a go and see what works best with her

 

[aran]

its crap when these things happen (out of interest did you get her vetted - did you have a blood sample taken?)
I presume her back and teeth are fine and that her saddle is well-fitting?
When i got aran he was a rescue case. he needed re-breaking and was a nervous reck. he was a real green baby. i had a tense, stressed, rodeoing nightmare.
i changed his bit as he was tense in his mouth and put him on a calmer just to settle his nerves. i rode twice a day but for no more than 20mins (i lunged for 10mins first), everything was easy, no pressure - walking poles, long and low, transitions - no firm contact just getting him to relax and accept me. we hacked out round the field on the buckle. once he relaxed i could start picking up a contact and he would work without a fight. if you are fighting - try getting off and lunging for a bit, cool down and then get back on and gently ask again.
She'll be fantastic - you've just got to figure each other out - take your time and you wont ruin her at all!

 

[vic07]

you could try taking her of alfa a. Have found in the past that some find it too high in protein and go a bit OTT!

I wouldn't worry as she is probably just settling in and trying you on! Good luck.

 

[Dovorian]

Kelly - Is your baby living out with company? It may help in the initial 'getting to know you' sages if she is.

 

[Peanot]

[ QUOTE ]
I was only mainly in walk for 45mins coz she was being such a c*w so everytime i tried to do something different she became too much so i brought her back to walk again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not meaning to sound awkward, but with you bringing her back to walk every time she is naughty, you are rewarding her. When she is naughty , you need to push her through it. IE, if she starts bucking in the canter, then push her forwards so as she knows that she isn`t going to get easier work for being naughty because at the moment, she is dictating the workload. Don`t expect this to work within 5 mins as she already has the idea, so she will fight it for a short while until she knows that you mean what you say.
Also, perhaps she likes a more stable routine, by this I mean that although a lot of horses like variety, perhaps she was worked in the school 4-5 times a week and so needs the more mental busyness, is you know what I mean.
So in short, try it for a couple of weeks, more work in the school and you dictate the work.
Perhaps try to school for 30 mins then go on a short hack to reward her when she has gone well.
I hope this helps as it helped with my horse. She is always better in the school when she is in there regularly.

 

[Kelly1982]

My instructor told me that if she is being naughty in trot or canter then take her back a step, play for 10 mins getting it right in that and then try again

I tried working her through it but it made her worse to the point i was loosing my temper so needed to chill out again myself

 

[Peanot]

When my friend has her lesson with my instructor, I watch her, and she has a very bolshy mare that when she has had enough, she starts having a tantrum and bucking. This was frightening my friend and so she just stopped her in her tracks, yanking on the reins, and shouted at her, winding up both horse and rider. My instructor told her that when she has a tantrum, ride her through it etc, just like I have posted above. Now when she has a smaller tantrum, my friend sits, and works her, and she is learning who is in charge, in a nice kinder way. She also works her more often in the school and it has worked for her.
I suppose what works for one, may not work for another. My instructor was an eventer and dressage`d at Grand Prix level and he always sorts out problems, big or small. He`s brilliant.
Also, he will tell us to do different things in quick succession, not just trot around, but different sized circles in different places, down the centre line, asking for different bends, half circles, halt-trot, just as long as you don`t give the horse time to think naughty, but to keep her mind working and wondering what you are gonna ask her to do and when. Don`t even do a 20m circle without doing something else, ie, walk for a few steps, halt or lenghten the stride then shorten.
They become a lot more attentive.
What your instructor has told you to do may work with some horses but some horses need variation within a session to keep their mind occupied. They are like children and need lots of stimulation. I hope this helps.

 

[Vey]

You won't spoil her hun, honest. I know that my view may be unpopular, but I think that often when youngesters have been bought on fast, often with the use of gagets, they need to go back and work thorugh all the stuff that was skipped afterwards.

Frankly, I have had both pushing on through it, and going back a bit work for me. Jacob came with a bit of a bucking problem - nothing huge - and I at first would pull him back to trot or walk if he started. As he WANTED to canter/gallop, he soon learned not exploding was the way to get it. but sometimes you do need to push on. It is a close call, and either approach can and sometimes does work. Really, it is just time and the penny dropping. And yes, this time of year is enough to turn any horse into a monster! DARK! urgh - worse than cold!

 

[Peanot]

Perhaps I am not coming across correctly.
When I say work her through it, I don`t mean kick on and on and get her to go faster etc, but keep calm and keep your leg on her sides and keep the contact and talk gently to her and when she responds, praise her and then let her walk so as she understands what you are wanting from her. When you let her walk and rest when she has done well, this let her associate with good work. I don`t quite know exactly what she is doing, so it is hard to say exactly what would work, but stick with it. They all try us out at the beginning when the honeymoon period is over.

 

[Kelly1982]

Thanks that has helped and i did undertsand what you meant about working her through it but she is so strong willed she just fights all the more so the only way i find to help slightly is taking her back to chill her out and then start again. If your ignoring one evasion then she just seems to move onto another!!

I do try to do lots of circles, figures of 8'e, serpentines etc but when they are constantly fighting you, snatching the reins, throwing their heads about, rodeoing and dancing on the spot even when your legging them to move forwards its difficult to remember if you know what i mean.

I am going to school her tonight, lunging her first so that she is more chilled and hope that she has learnt a bit from last night. Not looking forward to it though but i have had some very good advice on here so hopefully something will work

 

[MrsMagoo]

Kelly def take her of the Alfa-A, my girlies the same on anything like that and even the young one was a loony when fed that...just stick to basic nuts, bit of oil and apples etc until she chills out and your getting on better, then go from there!!

As for the riding, have you changed anything they had in in i.e bit etc?? as i've said before shes been brought on and moved around soo quickly maybe this is her telling you she's a bit stressed and overwhelmed by it all. Is shes good hacking, spend just a few days having some fun hacking and chilling her out, i'd even be inclined just to chuck her our out for a few days and give her a break

 

[Peanot]

Actually I fed my mare Alfa A when I first got her, and I had to take her off it as it sent her into a looney!!!
I put her on HI FI and pony nuts and she was fine.

 

[katelarge]

Lots of good advice here! I'd cut out the hard feed and also stop using Alfa-A. Mine went bananas on that! Hi-Fi Lite or Dengie good do-er will keep her ticking over. It might be worth looking into Simple System feed as they are totally forage based and not full of the sugars that creep in EVERYWHERE, believe me, even where you'd least expact them.

Keep your chin up - when I went through a really bad patch my my fella I dreaded riding him, so try and keep some fun in things. Keep us posted!

 

[Tempi]

did you have blood tests done when she was vetted? it sounds like a total change of character, theres no way she couldve been doped when you went to look at her? As her stable behaviour has been eratic too id be worried about this.

I agree that perseverence is the key, and im sure you wont ruin her by any means. have you had back teeth tack done? as this would be my first route to go down with such a massive attitude change. what has your trainer said? xx

 

[Kelly1982]

No didn't have blood tests done but brought her from someone that is well known and local to me so cant see them doing anything like that coz it would get back to me. Plus she was at a SJ yard and the lady that owns is is very well respected.

I have had her tack checked as it was all brand new when i got her, haven't had her back checked but i have the vet coming to do her teeth on the 22nd with her jabs.

Thinking about it when i got her i put her on the alpha-a lite that my old horse was on, when that run out i changed her to the alpha-a and its only been the last week or so that it has really gone downhill but i put it down to her trying it on.

She is probably doing that as well but i will take her off the alpha-a and see if that helps.

 

[4whitesocks]

The other thing to bear in mind is that it's a new home and they all test the boundaries - that's a lot of what she's doing - but the problem is that now you're stressed about it before you get on so some of that is bound to go down the reins....my worst 'problem' horse became a self fullfilling prophesy because I used to get so wound up about it I'd be sitting there waiting for the explosion (in her case rearing) she would sense it and the bad behaviour went up a notch....easier said than done but really try to chill out before you ride, focus on things that you are comfortable asking the horse for and that won't make you tense up (so helping avoid her tensing up if you know what I mean)

 

[Stella]

I'd try a high fibre, low protein, no cerial, diet to see if that makes a difference. I haven't used Alpha A myself, but I have heard that its rocket fuel to some horses.

Also, apparantly, horses who move to their first homes from where they are bred often react badly and take a while to settle. I don't know if this would apply to your mare.

And, this probably won't apply if, as it sounds, you got her from a reputable yard, but did you have blood taken when you were buying her? If so, it might be worth getting it tested for anything with a sedative effect.