Need to Make a Very Hard Decision - Help Please!

Chavhorse

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I have owned Muttley now for 8 years since finding him as a 5 month old stray whilst I was living in Cyprus.

Muttley is a collie X and has always been snappy, it was not a problem when I was living in Cyprus as I was living on my own in a house with no neighbours and people very seldom came to the house.

Five years ago I met my now Husband and moved to Holland with Muttley and my other two Cyprus strays both Beagle crosses, since then he has bitten people on a number of occasions, my husband three times (once badly enough to need stitches) Our cleaner badly on the arm (this was someone he knew well and who had looked after the dogs when we went away on holidays), he has snapped at but not connected with both of my stepsons and my niece who came to visit.

We got the the stage where if people were coming to the house Muttley would be put into our bedroom for the duration of the visit. The other two dogs are complete dolts so they stay as they enjoy the company of other people and I feel it is not right to deprive them of this.

We are moving back to the UK in a weeks time, both my Husband and I have many friends there some with young children and our respective families all of whom we want to spend a lot of time with once we are back in the UK.

What has brought things to a head is last night we had a BBQ for our close friends to say goodbye, a group of friends arrived an hour early and Muttley was still in the main house, I went to put him away and he bit me on the hand drawing blood then he ran into the garden went up to a friend and promptly bit him on the hand puncturing his hand and causeing a lot of blood loss. Not the best start to the evening! My husband managed to put him on his lead and put him in our bedroom where he stayed for the remainder of the evening.

We had a long chat about it this morning and realised we have two choices, one to ensure he is always muzzled when other people are around and continue to lock him away when visitors come or and we are both struggling with this one maybe it is kinder to put him to sleep before we add to his stress by moving him again.

It is a crap situation to be in and we keep vascilating but as Husband keeps saying when we are in the UK we will Never forgive ourselves should he bite one of our friends children and they will in turn quite rightly never forgive us, also he says at least if we take him for a long walk and put him to sleep with us there before we move it is in our control and he goes in an environment that he is comfortable in rather than something happening in the UK and him being taken away .

This is so difficult any sane input would be welcomed this is made all the more difficult as he is now fast asleep cross my lap snoring his head off.

Help!
 

Skippys Mum

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I think my heart would break in your situation. I am sitting here with my collies sprawled across my lap and I cant imagine how awful it would be to have to make that decision..

but I think I would do it before you come back to the UK. I suspect there is probably something physically wrong (maybe some sort of tumour) but I dont think you can take the risk :(

Massive hugs xxxx
 

twiglet84

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I think you are very realistic thinking about PTS. Sounds like he has bitten a fair few people and he meant it too. Even tho you have been putting measures in place to prevent it happening like you have written your friends came early and he bit you and one of them. Whats to say the same doesnt happen again? If he bit a child you would never forgive yourselves. I feel for you as you obv love your dog and you've had him such a long time but if you want to invite people over you are putting those people at risk which isnt fair.

Have you seen a behaviourist to see what they think? Maybe there is something they can suggest?



xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 

Star_Chaser

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you could train him to the crate, buy one that is very over sized so that he has plenty of room and that way he is protected but can be amongst small numbers of your guests so he can get used to them gradually.

Its not ideal but is a solution that keeps everyone safe and keeps him a part of your family. If he was also biting you and yours then pts would be the only option.

One of mine is not happy with children so to keep him safe rather than them I crate and its like a little den, he had a blanket over the top a comfy bed and water bowl and just goes off to sleep. Its worked well for us.
 

cptrayes

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If you bring him back the the UK and he bites someone you may find him taken away by the RSPCA/police and put to sleep by them in a strange place without anyone he knows to be with him, after weeks in "prison" while someone takes a court case to get the permission to have him put down. Personally, I would not risk that future for him after his record of multiple attacks on people, sorry :(
 

CorvusCorax

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I am sure you know this already, but he is very lucky to have been given so many chances (can you imagine if you had said he was a GSD, or a Rott, or a Staff), I am not sure I would have done similar with any of my own. As with CP, I would take control of the issue and PTS rather than have the decision taken out of my hands.

If he is as stressy as to snap like he has been snapping and behaving as unpredictably as he has been, actual the journey to the UK might also fry his head.

Best of luck, whatever happens x
 

Chavhorse

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you could train him to the crate, buy one that is very over sized so that he has plenty of room and that way he is protected but can be amongst small numbers of your guests so he can get used to them gradually.

Its not ideal but is a solution that keeps everyone safe and keeps him a part of your family. If he was also biting you and yours then pts would be the only option.

One of mine is not happy with children so to keep him safe rather than them I crate and its like a little den, he had a blanket over the top a comfy bed and water bowl and just goes off to sleep. Its worked well for us.

Sadly he has bitten my Husband a number of times and last night for the first time in years he bit me.

I am lucky enough to have a friend who is a behavourist who specialises in dogs that bite (sadly she will be at the other end of the country to me), her take on it is I will need to give him at least a month to get over the stress of moving with no visitors to the house, and only walks and quiet time. Then lots of rehab over a long period moving at his pace, whilst ensuring safety at all times muzzle, high bolts on doors so children can not reach etc

But she goes on to say

"Having said all that - if he is as stressed as he sounds, and your situation is going to become that much more busy (and with kids in the mix too) then honestly, it probably would be best to let him go now, somewhere he's happy and familiar with, rather than putting him through it all. That is incredibly hard for me to advise - my job is to help these sorts of dogs, I will always, ALWAYS work on the dog first before even considering that option but this isn't a typical situation and it sounds as though from his POV, things are going to get a lot more stressful which is going to make his issues worse."

I have a horrible feeling this is a typical case of "people only ask for advice when they know the answer already but don't like it"

Oh god!
 

Bedlam

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I think your OH is very sensible. It's not just other people that he bites is it? He's bitten you.

Unfortunately, I think you know what you need to do. I'm so sorry :(
 

Chavhorse

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If you bring him back the the UK and he bites someone you may find him taken away by the RSPCA/police and put to sleep by them in a strange place without anyone he knows to be with him, after weeks in "prison" while someone takes a court case to get the permission to have him put down. Personally, I would not risk that future for him after his record of multiple attacks on people, sorry :(

CP Trayes and Cavecanem,

This is our greatest fear at least doing it here, we can take him for a long run on the beach slip him a sedative (he hates the vet!) and then take him to see my lovely kind vet and be with him giving him a hug as he goes.

Bugger I will call my vet in the morning.

thanks folks for your understanding I feel like I am letting him down badly but I think it is for the best x
 

Dobiegirl

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I also think you are doing the right thing in having him pts, unfortunately given his age this behaviour is entrenched in him and is going to be very difficult to erradicate.

The move is going to be very stressful for him and might well make his behaviour worse, as you say take him for a long walk, give him a sedative and take him to your vet.
 

Nettle123

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You are certainly not letting him down you are doing the very best and kindest thing for him and only him. A brave and responsible decision putting him first over your own feelings.
 

MurphysMinder

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You are not letting him down, you are making the right decision and putting him first. A horrible decision for you but far kinder for him to enjoy a walk on the beach and a peaceful end rather than the stress the move would entail.
 

Ranyhyn

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Being how hysterical the UK is at the mo regarding dog attacks and the horrid situation they have to go through during investigation prior to being put down, if there was a high risk that my dog would bite someone I would probably let them go peacefully, at home, surrounded by friends and familiar surroundings.
Your hearts will break, for sure, but mend quicker knowing you gave your friend a considered, peaceful end rather than the alternative - which seems a real possibility for him.

I've had a biter. We were lucky that he wouldn't ever bite us, nor would he attack (he'd only bite if you loomed/leaned into him) but I know very well that gnawing worry and anxiety you carry with you.

I'd start your new life afresh, with good memories and having done the right thing by your pal. There are so many dogs in Uk rescue, maybe one day you could take on another in Muttley's memory? :) hugs for you, you're being very responsible and very brave.
 

Chavhorse

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Well I am just back from visiting my lovely Vet who stopped me three sentances into the story and said "you owe it to other people, yourselves and him to have him put to sleep"

So we have made an appointment for 7.30 tomorrow evening when surgery is closed he has given me 3 Diazepam to give him 2 hours beforehand so he is not stressed at visiting the vet or the procedure and he is arranging to get me his ashes back by Friday so we can go for our normal walk and scatter them next to the canal.

I cried all the way home and again when I got in to be greated by Mutt jumping up going "hello Mum" I feel like hell and so guilty it is unreal.......Dogs are having roast lamb for dinner tonight xxx
 

Ranyhyn

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I remember our last walk with one of our dogs (not the biter) I was about 14/15. Oh how my mum argued and railed "We can take her to the flat, she'll be fine" (she wouldn't, a 14 year old lab with dodgy back legs :( ) we walked to the vets, feeding Holly markies all the way. We stopped often, although the mind was very willing, her body was not and she was tired. But a quick car journey and no goodbye wouldn't have been fitting for my "sister".
When we got there she lay down greatfully and I left the room. Wish I'd stayed now. we carried her collar and lead home and talked about our lost family member, laughed, cried and when we got home there was a beautiful peace about us. We have never regretted what we did, she went hale(ish) and before something bad happened. Our memories now are filled with happiness and not tinged with regret - that's an amazing thing :) xxx
 

Red30563

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Oh, ChavHorse, so sad for you but you have made a big brave decision and one that is right for you and Muttley. God bless your vet for being so kind and understanding.

Hugs to you and Muttley. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.
 

fallenangel123

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You are so brave making this decision, it is the right decision tho so hard as it is try not to beat yourself up over it.
Much better for you all to be controlled and peaceful than have him snatched away here.
Will be thinking of you all.
 

splashgirl45

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how very sad, but sounds like the right thing to do. dont forget he wont know whats going on only that he is getting lots of fuss and will feel drowsy from the sedative..........its the worst thing as pet owners we have to do but also the best for them....hope all goes well tomorrow...
 
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